Stereo-Like Sound With HomePods Coming Before Multi-Room Audio Feature [Updated]

[PowerMacBook]

They have made no indication that you'll be able to pair more than two of them together, ever. It's very unlikely that they will have surround sound since this article says they won't even have left/right separation, let alone front/back.

That's exactly what I have been asking myself, and couldn't get an answer on, when I saw they are so incredibly small in size (17 cm high, really?): what if you can put let say six of them spreader over a big living room, so at least you would have great sound every where, no matter where you are in that room? Can this be done, or is two speakers in one room the limit for now?

 

[ck2875]

A wall is a hard flat surface (typical wall).

Yeah, I just don't know how you're going to 'mount' the HomePod sideways, given the shape of the bottom of it doesn't give you anything to latch into. Perhaps some kind of cradle? If someone can figure out how to do it in a way that doesn't impede sound quality then go for it I guess.

 

[ersan191]

That's exactly what I have been asking myself, and couldn't get an answer on, when I saw they are so incredibly small in size (17 cm high, really?): what if you can put let say six of them spreader over a big living room, so at least you would have great sound every where, no matter where you are in that room? Can this be done, or is two speakers in one room the limit for now?

Once they add multiroom you'll be able to mirror music across as many HomePods as you want - but I don't think that will ever be the case as an Apple TV output (if you were the one that was asking about that). The way AirPlay 2 works for multiroom is that each individual speaker pulls song data from the internet, instead of from one local source like AirPlay 1 does now via iTunes. Audio data from an Apple TV isn't going through the internet.

You'll likely only ever be able to select two HomePods configured in what I will probably now start referring to as "fake stereo" (instead of what Apple wants us to call "FullRoom") as an output for any one Apple TV.

That said, you absolutely do not need 6 HomePods to get sound in one living room, even if you live in a mansion - they are small but they get quite loud. Two is plenty.

 

[Creek0512]

A ton of people? And that starts an honest question?

I think the only ton of people that are running out and buying these for every room of there house exist only in your imagination.

A ton of people is only like 20 people max, probably less than 15.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Hmm. So a single HomePod has a better soundstage than a pair of Sonos Ones. Weren't people claiming a pair of Sonos would be better, because two speakers are required for stereo and for a proper soundstage?

Anyone want to take a crack at explaining how this is possible?

Isolating a positive take but ignoring a negative, I see. From another review:

I compared the HomePod with the Sonos One in the living room of my small one-bedroom apartment, and then in BuzzFeed San Francisco’s 650-square-foot lab with ~15-foot-high ceilings. In a blind listening test in my apartment, my BF Will overwhelmingly preferred the Sonos One, saying “the vocals are really more clear on the Sonos” for the Grateful Dead’s “China Cat Sunflower”; that the Sonos’s “mid-range sounds more prevalent” and “accurate” for Lorde’s “Green Light”; but that there was “more detail” on the HomePod for “God’s Plan” by Drake.

Let me guess: that boyfriend is a moron for not blindly hearing the vast superiority of HP in every case. Poor Will. Hopefully he gets his ears checked soon.

After working them out with other people (though it's not clear if everyone was blindfolded like Will), she goes on to add this:

The takeaway from our tests is that Sonos speakers sound calibrated to pay deep attention to everything — every guitar strum, every bass line, every hi-hat tap — because, perhaps, they’re aimed at a very particular type of music listener.

The HomePod, meanwhile, has very thump-y bass, with an algorithm on board that looks ahead at the track’s next 30 milliseconds and tunes frequencies in real time. But the algorithm isn’t always effective: In certain songs, the bass sounded too prominent, burying vocals and other mid-range sounds.

See how that works? If we zoom in on only the glowing praise, what are we trying to prove here? Might as well quote yourself and others like you gushing praise upon praise about this thing as perfection in a box, on Apple's very first try.

On the whole, it's reviewing like it's a great-sounding speaker. Others may prefer the competition. You get what you want and they can get what they want. Trying to make them see it as you do doesn't accomplish anything more or less for you... and vice versa. Enjoy your HP. Others will enjoy their 2 Sonos Ones for the same money. Still others will enjoy other options. Everybody can get what makes them happy as individuals.

 

[deanthedev]

Isolating a positive take but ignoring a negative, I see. From another review:

No. I specifically picked this quote because this is the reviewer who people are basing the "two HomePods are not actually stereo" comments on. And this reviewer actually sold high-end audiophile gear for 7 years, so I think they know what good sound is.

The actual point of my comment is that the HomePod creates a wide soundstage. This is impossible to do with a mono speaker. I'm curious what laws of physics the HomePod is apparently breaking to do this.

 

[CLS727]

They should have made these wireless with an inductive charging dock.... so they can be carried out on the patio, etc.

Also... I'd love if it was easy to buy a bunch of these to put in every room of the house... and for them all to work together in a simple way.... full house audio with Siri in every room.

That's the future... set it to automatically put my favorite music on when I get home... and turn it off when I leave.

Or answer phone calls anywhere in the house without my phone.

 

[44267547]

Why don't they just buy sonos so they can get the tech they need to make a good speaker.

Which Makes statement worthless, because how would you know this is not a "Good speaker" if you haven't personally tested the HomePod yet? Or is this is your way to disparage against the HomePod by interjecting Sonos into equation?

 

[buststyles]

No. I specifically picked this quote because this is the reviewer who people are basing the "two HomePods are not actually stereo" comments on. And this reviewer actually sold high-end audiophile gear for 7 years, so I think they know what good sound is.

The actual point of my comment is that the HomePod creates a wide soundstage. This is impossible to do with a mono speaker. I'm curious what laws of physics the HomePod is apparently breaking to do this.

Hi deanthedev, It is not a mono speaker regardless of what other posters will say. It has 7 tweeters and a sub. All 8 of these speakers are on separate channels. I guess the magic of the A8 processing is it decides based on the location of the homepod,etc what tweeters on the circle of tweeters to send for example the center, left or right channels of a mix.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

No. I specifically picked this quote because this is the reviewer who people are basing the "two HomePods are not actually stereo" comments on. And this reviewer actually sold high-end audiophile gear for 7 years, so I think they know what good sound is.

The actual point of my comment is that the HomePod creates a wide soundstage. This is impossible to do with a mono speaker. I'm curious what laws of physics the HomePod is apparently breaking to do this.

Best I know, you are one of the very few people around here reading "it takes 2" (for stereo) comments as calling it mono. I haven't seen too much of the counterpoint explicitly calling it mono (though of course, there have been some), just questioning stereo or stereo plus implications when Apple themselves says otherwise.

The wide soundstage bit applies. It's a cylinder with audio guts aimed in 360 degrees. But that term will apply to many other speakers too. Most soundbars aim to spread left, center & right out to create a wide soundstage too. A traditional 3 speaker setup is meant to produce a wide soundstage. This is not even the first round smart speaker aiming to push sound out in all directions. Which soundstage is better is more ear of the beholder, but certainly Apple have not invented the first soundstage here.

Again, reviews are mostly complimentary about this part of HP. You seem to be chasing some kind of "I told you so" moment. What's it matter either way? You seem extraordinarily sold on HP. Go buy one... or more than one. Others are not so sold. Apple doesn't need our help to drive sales of this thing. They'll do just fine without us.

 

[mytdave]

"Stereo-like" is a non-starter for me. Without true L-R separation, you'll never accurately reproduce the original recording no matter how much beam-forming magic you use. Seems to me Apple has released another stillborn product. I guess 'visionary' at Apple really did die with Steve.

HomePod might be the best sounding single speaker now on the market, but out of the gate they've already missed on "smart" due to Siri's limitations, and they've also missed on multi-room, and missed on true stereo sound. Seems to me they also didn't even think about a pair of HomePods becoming the primary audio devices for pairing with AppleTV, putting a compelling home theater audio experience within reach of the masses of the technical illiterati finally possible.

 

[ersan191]

"Stereo-like" is a non-starter for me. Without true L-R separation, you'll never accurately reproduce the original recording no matter how much beam-forming magic you use. Seems to me Apple has released another stillborn product. I guess 'visionary' at Apple really did die with Steve.

HomePod might be the best sounding single speaker now on the market, but out of the gate they've already missed on "smart" due to Siri's limitations, and they've also missed on multi-room, and missed on true stereo sound. Seems to me they also didn't even think about a pair of HomePods becoming the primary audio devices for pairing with AppleTV, putting a compelling home theater audio experience within reach of the masses of the technical illiterati finally possible.

I don't necessarily agree with your first point - I think it has the potential to make the original recordings sound better than just L/R stereo. This is really just a philosophical difference though - if you weren't interested in computer manipulated and processed sound you shouldn't have paid any attention to HomePod in the first place.

I absolutely agree with the second point though, it's a bummer that there was an opportunity to have a pair of HomePods act as a decent home theater replacement but that's out the window over something that should be pretty simple to implement.
[doublepost=1517947150][/doublepost]

They should have made these wireless with an inductive charging dock.... so they can be carried out on the patio, etc.

Also... I'd love if it was easy to buy a bunch of these to put in every room of the house... and for them all to work together in a simple way.... full house audio with Siri in every room.

That's the future... set it to automatically put my favorite music on when I get home... and turn it off when I leave.

Or answer phone calls anywhere in the house without my phone.

I would expect them to roll features like this out over time as they get more feedback from customers (assuming the HomePod sells well enough for them to give it any attention).

I don't think they are going to bother making a portable version ever though. Demand seems relatively low for that, and taking it outside completely negates all of the beam forming features. Most portable speakers are for taking them to places that don't really have WiFi - they become "dumb" bluetooth speakers in those situations and the market has plenty of those, no need for one from Apple.

 

[kdarling]

But where is the point in that? It would mean there is a sweet spot in the center of the room while sound would vary and be suboptimal outside of that center.

Apple apparently wants to separate out the virtual source points to impress listeners who don't actually care about reproducing the original source points.

I'm sure it sounds neat if you're okay with Apple deciding what sound goes where.

Also it wouldn't have to make lots of assumptions about what should be in background and what ia foreground. An impossible task with lots of music genres I listen to.

It probably looks for vocal frequency audio that is in the center of the stereo input, and that's what it decides is for the center stage. Everything else gets "diffused" as they put it, out to the sides.

However, that does preclude Apple in the future from implementing algorithms to geolocate one or a couple of listeners who are mostly statically situated in a characterized room, and then direct beam-formed audio appropriately.

Dream on.

The actual point of my comment is that the HomePod creates a wide soundstage. This is impossible to do with a mono speaker. I'm curious what laws of physics the HomePod is apparently breaking to do this.

It might create a virtual multi-source soundstage, but it's not necessarily reproducing the originally recorded stereo soundstage. In fact, they seem to bend over backwards to avoid saying anything other than that it makes up its own virtual source location decisions.

 

[CLS727]

I don't think they are going to bother making a portable version ever though. Demand seems relatively low for that, and taking it outside completely negates all of the beam forming features. Most portable speakers are for taking them to places that don't really have WiFi - they become "dumb" bluetooth speakers in those situations and the market has plenty of those, no need for one from Apple.

Just would be nice for 1 speaker to serve all purposes.

Especially since the HomePod "looks" portable... (it's not like you'll build it into your wall/ceiling)

 

[deanthedev]

It might create a virtual multi-source soundstage, but it's not necessarily reproducing the originally recorded stereo soundstage. In fact, they seem to bend over backwards to avoid saying anything other than that it makes up its own virtual source location decisions.

Curious what would be the "originally recorded stereo soundstage"? Especially since most content we listen to is artificially created stereo (processed) from numerous mono recordings (tracks).

 

[kruegdude]

Meanwhile APFS for Fusion drives is nowhere to be seen.

What? How did you get that out of a HomePod article?
[doublepost=1517958489][/doublepost]

A ton of people? And that starts an honest question?

I think the only ton of people that are running out and buying these for every room of there house exist only in your imagination.

Assuming an average of 150lbs per person and going with a short ton = 2000lbs and rounding up that would be 14 people.
[doublepost=1517958598][/doublepost]

From the review linked in the article:



Hmm. So a single HomePod has a better soundstage than a pair of Sonos Ones. Weren't people claiming a pair of Sonos would be better, because two speakers are required for stereo and for a proper soundstage?

Anyone want to take a crack at explaining how this is possible?

Hopefully not since this has been beat to death.

 

[ke-iron]

The tech specs on the Apple website state that audio from an Apple TV can play over the HomePod via AirPlay. I wonder if this would be reliable enough and low latency enough for TV and Netflix? Wish the HomePod also included an audio jack so it could be plugged into a traditional TV as well. That might justify getting 2 of them for someone in the market for new home theater speakers, and doesn’t want to wire up a proper 5.1 surround system.

Watching tv shows and movies while using an AirPlay speaker for audio is never an issue. I’ve been doing this for years now and the audio automatically syncs with the video like magic.
[doublepost=1517962121][/doublepost]

So it's not stereo, it's stereo like?

Precisely.

We've been repeatedly told on MR that a single unit was actually stereo.

Yes, I’ve had long arguments about this on these forums recently. Most people basically didn’t believe me when I said it plays music recorded in stereo but doesn’t playback music in stereo. I said there were no left and right channels like how a modern stereo does and went on to explain how some songs are coded to play certain sounds through the left or right channel.

But honestly I’m really shocked how people can’t wrap their heads around why a single HomePod is not designed to playback music in stereo.

 

[rocknblogger]

We've been repeatedly told on MR that a single unit was actually stereo.

Yeah it seems like some real die hard fanbois are making up what the HopePod does. I don’t think that beem forming does what they think it does. It’s actually been a very frustrating read in other threads where some members were calling everyone else dumb because they didn’t “get it”.

There is no such thing as a single speaker stereo.
[doublepost=1517962534][/doublepost]

So it's not stereo, it's stereo like?

Yes that is correct. By using some neat tech and all those tweeters it’s deigned to “fill” the room with sound. But you’re not going to hear instruments or vocals that were mixed so that the right and left channels produce different parts of the recording. Instead it will just equally fill the room with sound with left/right channel output.

 

[ke-iron]

Yeah it seems like some real die hard fanbois are making up what the HopePod does. I don’t think that beem forming does what they think it does. It’s actually been a very frustrating read in other threads where some members were calling everyone else dumb because they didn’t “get it”.

There is no such thing as a single speaker stereo.

Of course a single speaker can do stereo! Unless you are referring to a single speaker (driver), and not a speaker system like the HomePod or others with multiple speakers (drivers) in a single enclosure.

I will assume you are talking about speakers like the HomePod with more than one speaker (driver) in a single enclosure since the topic is about the HomePod.

 

[69650]

Too expensive for many average people and too cheap for many audiophiles.

Audiophiles would never buy one of these while it pumps out crappy compressed s**t through a mono speaker.

Apple continues to drive music quality backwards. So very sad to see.

 

[rocknblogger]

Of course a single speaker can do stereo! Unless you are referring to a single speaker (driver), and not a speaker system like the HomePod or others with multiple speakers (drivers) in a single enclosure.

I will assume you are talking about speakers like the HomePod with more than one speaker (driver) in a single enclosure since the topic is about the HomePod.

I haven’t read anything on Apple’s site that that would lead me to believe that the tweeters are designed to produce left/right channel audio. The tweeters are designed to produce louder/softer sounds to fill the room with sound in general. All of that depends on the size of the room, the distance to the left/right/rear walls and supposedly where the listener is positioned. It simply has nothing to do with separating sound into left and right channels.

In order to get trues stereo sound you will need two HomePods positioned left and right. You simply cannot get stereo sound out of a single speaker especially when there are no mid drivers.

 

[ErikGrim]

The wide soundstage bit applies. It's a cylinder with audio guts aimed in 360 degrees. But that term will apply to many other speakers too. Most soundbars aim to spread left, center & right out to create a wide soundstage too. A traditional 3 speaker setup is meant to produce a wide soundstage. This is not even the first round smart speaker aiming to push sound out in all directions. Which soundstage is better is more ear of the beholder, but certainly Apple have not invented the first soundstage here.

You are literally describing stereo.
[doublepost=1517964546][/doublepost]

It simply has nothing to do with separating sound into left and right channels.

That is not what stereo means.

 

[Tech198]

This, i imagine, would be very similar to how the simulate "test apps" that work to produce the same kind of DTS sound.

 

[rocknblogger]

You are literally describing stereo.
[doublepost=1517964546][/doublepost]That is not what stereo means.

I know what stereo means but I’m wondering if you understand what stereo means. You had mentioned some Beatles and Stones albums plus there are others like The Doors where certain specific sounds like guitars, Morrison’s voice etc were recorded to the left or right channel. Are you trying to say that a single HomePod is going to separate these into right and left?

 

[neutralguy]

When you test these 2 speakers, mount one on a wall with the other on a table. Is it good?

If you mount on the wall, you won't get any bass.