Steve Jobs, Apple and the hatred with Microsoft

Discussion in 'macOS' started by luffytubby, Jun 5, 2008.

  1. luffytubby macrumors 6502a


    Jan 22, 2008
    I know that Mac and PC users have been fighting a long time, but I never knew the situation was this complex.
    Im getting my first Mac soon, and in my anticipation I was checking Macworld videos on youtube, and what I came across was insane, disturbing, inspiring, epic, annoying, interesting, boring, cool, and much more, all at the same time.

    First, of all, the Macworld 1997 is the most shocking! Damn, this video is crazy. Suddenly Steve Jobs come on the scene, and apparently he has been away for 12 years.. He was fired from his own company, then made pixar(Toy Story) and then Pixar was bought by apple, but Apple was nearly bankrupt, and everyone said they where dying.
    But.. Jesus. They are booo'ing at him. he tries to save his company by parterning with microsoft... He acknowledges microsoft, but the crowd hates him for it.
    I always thought macworld was a hype convention where steve jobs told everyone how great he and apple was, but here he is talking about all the problems.. he is admitting everything. it all seems hopeless. how the hell would they recover from this. it almost seemed like they lost their souls and allowed microsoft to buy them out:

    Then comes 1998... he seems more relaxed(but sick).. apparently dramatic things have happened. people are not boo'ing anymore when Microsoft is named. they even had profitable quarters! 3 in a row! part 1 from new york;

    I dont know what event this is from, but Jobs is wearing a suit, so I dont think its from macworld 98.. but apparently it is from the year 98. Its the first Imac ever. I am excited because I am getting a aluminium Imac soon. Its fun to see the machines history.
    But I know this computer. I have seen it many times before, and I have always believed it was one of the most iconic computers of all time. it got a 90s look to it now, but at the time, I can imagine it really was something from the future... witchcraft. forbidden technology:

    Then comes 99... introduction of Ibook... < everything seems better, and optimism is much higher. I really love in this video, where he pays major tribute to one of the Sony founders.. that was really nice:

    And there it just goes up and goes up and goes up.

    But what I thought was strange was this... documentary "how microsoft REALLY became the marked leader"! part 1; and part 2:

    ¨You know... Watching this, its hard to really get a clue about steve jobs. He sometimes seems like an ego centric guy, who cares nothing but power, and it seems like he hates microsoft even though numerous times that they helped save his company.
    And in all this time when he badmouths bill gates, who just seems like a nice guy who is not hostile or mean at all towards anyone, it just makes steve jobs seem like a really nasty and mean guy.

    but then you see something like this... awesome awesome awesome speach from standford university, and it just makes me think that the guy is incredible and awesome.

    its hard to get my head around apple and its history. I am only 21 years old, so I got no concept of what Apple 2 means to you older guys, who know about the mac history. I dont understand really what apple, and apple users went through in the 90s, and how it has shaped up. Sure, since coming to this site, I can see the notion that Apple is getting a bit bigger over time, and Ipod helped it aswell, but.. well, yeah. Its just hard to figure out, thats all.
  2. nick9191 macrumors 68040

    Feb 17, 2008
    Apple didn't buy Pixar. Apple bought Next, a company also founded by jobs. The Next OS IS what OS X is based upon.

    Mac users had a hatred of Microsoft because basically, Gates wouldnt be here without Steve. Steve gave Microsoft a job at writing code for the original Macintosh. Gates copied the OS and made Windows, sold it at a dirt cheap price for install on any IBM system (99 dollars), and became a billionaire of it.

    And naturally when Steve did what he had to do, save Apple. People were scared when they realised IE would be the default browser, and Microsoft were pushing a cool 150 into Apple, although it was non voting stock. Once people saw Microsoft were helping, they were more relaxed.
  3. pilotError macrumors 68020


    Apr 12, 2006
    Long Island
    The old history is much more complex than that.

    It's not just Apple who hates MS, it's just about every independent vendor out there (and a few of the big ones). MS is extremely business savvy and cut-throat and ruthless at it.

    As a software vendor, if you were approached by them and didn't cut a deal with them, they would mimic your software and put you out of business. Sometimes they would do it even if you did cut a deal with them.

    They locked out other vendors by threatening to cut off licensing to certain 3rd parties or by giving really sweet deals that the others couldn't match. Their products are "Good Enough" products and were pushed on anyone with a PC.

    MS almost had to support Apple. They would have been the lone player in the desktop market had Apple dissapeared, and that would have been a worse situation (The devil you know...).

    MS had nothing to fear until their serious missteps with Vista and all that Windows Genuine Advantage draconian licensing and fleecing their customers. I think folks are fed up with their crap. That combined with Apple moving to Intel (you can always install windows if you don't like it) really opened up the market.

    Good luck with your first Mac, I switched 2 years ago and won't be going back any time soon.

    It didn't really go down like that, MS made their initial fortune on MS Dos for the IBM PC. Both Apple and MS took their windowing technology from Xerox PARC (from a demo that they both attended). Apple was first, but with IBM in every major and minor corporation, Apple never stood a chance. Windows didn't appear until several years later, and wasn't actually successful until windows 3.0 / 3.1. They already had a 90% market penetration and were the only choice for every PC clone vendor out there.
  4. EdLee macrumors member

    Apr 5, 2008
    Also, one clarification...

    Jobs didn't make Pixar...he bought it from George Lucas (originally Lucasfilm's Graphics Group).

    I recommend watching Cringely's Triumph of the Nerds. It will give you a great insight (albeit somewhat biased) into the history here.
  5. MisterMe macrumors G4


    Jul 17, 2002
    Jobs sold Pixar to Disney.

    If you don't know any history and can't do math, then you may believe this. Bankruptcy means that you cannot pay your debts. Even in its darkest days, Apple never had less than $4 billion in cash reserves.

    Microsoft played a significant role in the early days of the microcomputer. However, its tactics were anything but noble. Microsoft's first and, for years, its most significant product was Microsoft BASIC. Microsoft BASIC was either an integral part of or available on virtually every microcomputer OS. As a Harvard student, Gates worked at Digital Equipment Corporation. He retrieved the code for BASIC on paper tape by dumpster-diving at DEC. [FWIW, DEC was bought-out by Compaq which was, in turn, bought-out by Hewlett-Packard.]

    There is much more to the history of the personal computer than just Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. However, two letters to BYTE magazine illuminate these two men. One letter was written by Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs. They explained by they chose the 6502 processor rather than the Zilog Z-80, which they wanted. The second letter was written by Bill Gates. In his letter, he ranted about people using his software without paying.

    Gates went on to become a billionaire. Guess what? Jobs also went on to become a billionaire.

    If you are interested in personal computer history, I strongly suggest that you look at David K. Every's and websites. The I, Cringely, The Apple Museum, the A History of Apple Computers, GUIdebook: Graphical User Interface Gallery, and the websites are also good places to learn.
  6. derryquinn macrumors 6502


    Sep 29, 2007
  7. gnasher729 macrumors P6


    Nov 25, 2005
    Steve Jobs' company created Woody and Buzz Lightyear, Mike and Sulley, Nemo and The Incredibles. Bill Gates' company created Bob and Clippy. Which one do people love and which one does everyone hate?
  8. pilotError macrumors 68020


    Apr 12, 2006
    Long Island
    Ahhh poor Clippy... He was just misunderstood. :D

    Attached Files:

  9. Sky Blue Guest

    Sky Blue

    Jan 8, 2005
    haha what the hell
  10. elppa macrumors 68040


    Nov 26, 2003
    What seems to have been overlooked here is that the investment by Microsoft wasn't so much to save Apple but rather an out of court settlement as they had infringed Apple patents relating to Quicktime.

    Apple could have taken them to court and they would have won. Not like the GUI case, this time they had a rock solid case and both parties knew it.

    Apple also knew that they didn't want lengthy legal proceedings with one of their key developers (if MS had walked away from the Mac at the time it would have been a real blow) and Microsoft certainly didn't need any more legal trouble (they were up to their neck in it as it was). Microsoft could also use the Mac as an opportunity to help push Internet Explorer market leader over Netscape.

    Jobs makes brief reference to “patent disputes”, but never really explains what he means.

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