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Steve Jobs Asked Dell to Pre-Install Mac OS on PCs and Pay Hundreds of Millions in Royalties

Freeangel1 said:
I saw the future in Intel Chips.

The 12th generation Intel Chips are going to WASTE APPLE silicon.
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That's quite unlikely. Intel promises a roughly 20% boost. If you take a Tiger Lake CPU with a similar power draw to the M1 and add 20%, you reach basically the same performance at the M1, which is already a year old. I see no reason to believe at this point that Alder Lake would match, let alone beat, the M2.
 
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chucker23n1 said:
Yes, as of last week.

You can install it as an upgrade over 10.

(Ironically, I'm in the process of downgrading, because the performance and stability weren't great.)
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Interesting, I had no trouble at all? What did you have trouble with? It seems FAR faster on my SP7 particularly.
 
eltoslightfoot said:
Interesting, I had no trouble at all? What did you have trouble with? It seems FAR faster on my SP7 particularly.
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Alt-tab frequently crashes (there's a lot of comments in Feedback Hub about this), and more critically, WPF apps crash multiple times a day.
 
chucker23n1 said:
Yes, as of last week.

You can install it as an upgrade over 10.

(Ironically, I'm in the process of downgrading, because the performance and stability weren't great.)
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I have bad memories of Windows ME, 7, 8, Vista, NT, so many bad memories...

I think it was Vista, installed on a 1 year old notebook, and no NIC, no audio, no modem support. It was, in essence, an island, disconnected and floating in a sea of 'you need drivers', and updates, and... I put out the word that clients would be best served by avoiding Vista. (Then Dell was effectively forcing people to get Vista, and the Dell client we had inflicted Vista on themselves because 'Dell said it's great', and didn't admit that I was right as they downgraded a few of their machines)
 
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eltoslightfoot said:
Interesting, I had no trouble at all? What did you have trouble with? It seems FAR faster on my SP7 particularly.
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I remember with Vista, I had issues with a notebook, and on a desktop, it worked, until Windows Update just would not work. After several cases with MS support, and their inability to fix it, I still recommended that people not use it for production if they had the option of downgrading. I missed Windows 2000 so much...
 
Gudi said:
Are you trying to be funny? Intel is on the brink on bankruptcy. Their only chance is to get rid of x86 and jump on the ARM train before it is too late.
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Oh yeah getting Rid of x86 in a whim and leaving thousands of software developers to dry and hundreds of expensive professional software in shambles, halting or even paralysing some industries. Definitely an amazing move from Intel and AMD.
 
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Shirasaki said:
Oh yeah getting Rid of x86 in a whim and leaving thousands of software developers to dry and hundreds of expensive professional software in shambles, halting of even paralysing some industries. Definitely an amazing move from Intel and AMD.
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Well, 'Apple did it, so Intel can too'.

Apple had a small fraction of the industry. It's easy to burn down and recreate when you have a small number of fanatically devoted users. People were lead by Apple to dump their processors TWICE! For any peecee company to do the same thing would be corporate suicide. For Intel to dump their focus on legacy devices would be as well. Intel has (had?) options for those that wanted to wander away from legacy, but they failed in their attempts to get their customers to ditch legacy.

Remember New Coke? For those not yet born, look it up. Coca-Cola nearly lost the company, which I thought was hysterical. But it would be like going to a Jimmy Buffett show and him not doing his incredibly popular original song play list. People would riot of he didn't play WDWGDAS, and Margaritaville, so among many others. Even James Taylor is tied to his greatest hits. He joked about it during a concert I was at decades ago. But anyway...
 
PinkyMacGodess said:
Well, 'Apple did it, so Intel can too'.
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Sort of, but Apple controls the entire platform. Intel would have to rely on Microsoft to help with the transition, and frankly, I don't think they've been great at that. (I think MS made a huge mistake not implementing fat binaries.)
 
vipergts2207 said:
You misunderstand what the quote you posted is trying to say. Michael Dell's personal holdings in Dell is worth $40 billion. He's the 23rd wealthiest person in the world. Just for comparison, Jobs was worth only $10 billion when he died and Cook (though not an entrepreneur) is only worth $1.4 billion.
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What was Michael Dell’s worth 10 years ago when Jobs died?
 
Shirasaki said:
Oh yeah getting Rid of x86 in a whim and leaving thousands of software developers to dry and hundreds of expensive professional software in shambles, halting or even paralysing some industries. Definitely an amazing move from Intel and AMD.
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Stop dreaming! Microsoft as well as Apple wants (and needs) to get rid of x86 heat and power issues and Intel’s monopoly prices. If Microsoft doesn’t make the transition to ARM, Google Chromebooks will. ARM licensing means everyone can outperform and undercut x86. Microsoft’s interest is to protect the Windows monopoly, not the Wintel monopoly. To make this happen all their resources will be aimed at the ARM platform. They’ll keep selling x86 legacy software, but invest the least amount possible to maintain it. For all those industries who still rely on it, they’ll eventually need to make the transition too. Intel is like Nokia after the iPhone announcement. There aren’t even that many iPhones available yet and they cost a fortune, but the basis of Nokia’s Symbian business is still destroyed. Intel is fighting for survival and right now it’s losing.
 
Gudi said:
Stop dreaming! Microsoft as well as Apple wants (and needs) to get rid of x86 heat and power issues and Intel’s monopoly prices. If Microsoft doesn’t make the transition to ARM, Google Chromebooks will. ARM licensing means everyone can outperform and undercut x86. Microsoft’s interest is to protect the Windows monopoly, not the Wintel monopoly. To make this happen all their resources will be aimed at the ARM platform. They’ll keep selling x86 legacy software, but invest the least amount possible to maintain it. For all those industries who still rely on it, they’ll eventually need to make the transition too. Intel is like Nokia after the iPhone announcement. There aren’t even that many iPhones available yet and they cost a fortune, but the basis of Nokia’s Symbian business is still destroyed. Intel is fighting for survival and right now it’s losing.
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Heh. Tech world being out of touch with reality isn't something brand new. Even today, I still need to occasionally connect my computer to some devices that use serial port, something that has been abandoned by every single computer since 2000 or so, because it serves the purpose and high-speed USB-C just can't cut it. I am not saying x86 will never be superseded, but there's the RISC-V, which Apple will gladly transition into as early as possible, leaving every ARM Mac user in the dust. Microsoft has already attempted ARM-based Windows (Windows RT) and it is not super great either. At the end of the day, not everyone will follow the bleeding edge in the tech world because what's working right now works and there is no demand to upgrade or to pursue "latest tech". Heck, the iPhone iPad Mac we use and enjoy today might be manufactured by machines that can only be connected through parallel and run custom system that's based on x86 computers.
But yeah, consumer electronics will move away from x86 sooner or later, just to say x86 ain't gonna just disappear like smoke or fireworks.
 
Shirasaki said:
But yeah, consumer electronics will move away from x86 sooner or later, just to say x86 ain't gonna just disappear like smoke or fireworks.
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Intel management is used to growing markets, no real competitors and monopoly prices. This environment will quickly turn into its opposite. Right now Intel marketing is still trying to convince consumers that M1 Macs aren’t that great. This kind of thinking is a recipe for bankruptcy.



Microsoft failed to become Android, maybe they’ll fail again and some else becomes the free licensable mainstream ARM desktop OS of choice for all the Asian OEM hardware makers. One thing is for sure, nothing gives Intel a head start to become a leading chipmaker for this new OS. Neither Samsung nor Xiaomi have an interest to be dependent on Intel for a critical component.
 
GrumpyCoder said:
Many Unreal/Unity based projects, such as Carla and Airsim and CoppeliaRobotics based projects, ROS2. Those are used for simulation and research. Many are on board with Nvidia now and their Omniverse. Spoke to some game developers during GTC, same there. Blizzard is probably the most discussed here in the forum. You'll find this trend pretty much anywhere in the field of AI and autonomous systems (cars, drones, robots). Audi, Volvo, Continental, Toyota, Honda, Kuka, ABB, the list goes on. This started when Apple abandoned Nvidia and only got worse over time and much worse with the release of the M1 systems. Look at Apples Tensorflow fork... it's a mess. Look further, PyTorch, Matlab, ... even Apple is using Linux for their AI research. Visit a world leading conference, then try to reproduce the results of the authors.

Won't matter to the end user browsing the web and writing emails, but macOS had a large chunk of the scientific research market (except for clusters) in the past few years and that market is shrinking rapidly. Part of this is due to Nvidia offering software no other company has in this field. But part of it is Apple locking down their eco system further and further.
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That's a damn shame. Apple really should make an effort to be the place where pros like this can do their best work. It might not be a huge profit area, but it's not only valuable scientifically, it has ramifications for their future success
 
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