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Cook has done the job of CEO and created $700B in value. Cook is a proven commodity and he’s likely the best supply chain mind in the world. He’s also an excellent CEO because the numbers prove that.

Federighi reports to Cook, so Cook enabling Craig to succeed in his current role and Craig doing well is a testament to both of them.

Just because Craig is good at his current job and has some charisma, doesn’t make him a good CEO.

Every leader has to step down someday either for personal reason, professional or life. Every leader has to groom a potential future leader. Jobs groomed Cook because he even though he knew that Apple required growth for the next number of years to be profitable and to continue his vision and develop his products to bring it to market.

If you think Jobs just planned products for 5 years or less you don’t understand the mindset. Cool has contributed to Apple what he was selected by Jobs to do and he does it well, a product guy he is not and it is evident.

Federighi is a software guy, that is what I believe Apple needs next with its products ranging from matured to maturing (Mac , iOS, Services, etc).

Does this mean Apple will not release new products, absolutely not. They will however not at the pace as they have previously and the creativity accompanied.

People can be good at their job and be terrible in front of an audience, that is how I see the three. Jobs commanded it, Cook seems uncomfortable even after many, many years of doing it, he much prefers participation to highlight talent at Apple. Is this move intentional to limit his awkwardness and a side effect makes him look good by not being a stage hog, maybe as that is a personal opinion by the observer. Federighi feels very comfortable on stage and with the audience by interacting with them, he reacts his emotions. He is just fun to watch and hear even though he is demonstrating something mundane, he places in some chatter and is just entertaining. He just knows how to connect the audience with what is being presented.

Just my personal opinion but I don’t like Phil he just comes across as a rear kisser, Eddy has this greasy aura about him, Jeff is much like Cook in his presence on stage, I am willing to give him a change to become comfortable, the rest I have not seen much of on stage and are forgettable.

Federighi is like an unforgettable friend who just seems like a cool person to chill with, he much rather enjoy the people’s company and interact than be a suit, though he is good at what he does.

If I was on an Apple VP island, Federighi would be top on that list with Jonny and Jobs (alternate universe) and runner-ups.
 
Tim is CEO, he doesn't need to be a product person...but somebody at Apple does. :)
This is true, it is more normal for the CEO to not be so intimately hands on. But ultimately this means the products are the result of many different visions, and not the singular vision of one individual with all the veto power.

The latter can be both phenomenal or terrible. We got phenomenal from Steve.
 
And what "issue" would that be?

And based on comments and reports, Ive was the one who was behind Forstall being let go.





Jeff Williams will likely be the next CEO.




Not like Ive hasn't had years to come up with another "revolutionary" product since the Apple Watch.

Maybe it's not so easy...

The issue being that Tim is not a product person. Steve Jobs saw the potential for him as then-COO to run the company but not lead it as a visionary as Jobs was. And it was clear, since Jobs was no amateur, that that would be the case. With Forstall, he may have been onto something about how overblown the iOS 6 fiasco was, but Tim just wanted to save face. Remember Jobs when the iPhone 4 antennagate was happening went as far as to say customers were "holding [their iPhone] wrong." Tim does not have the moxy to say something like that with a stiff lip.

Jony is gifted in design, but look at how numerous reports say how he could not even be in the same room as Forstall. Now with reports he was "dispirited" and was hardly showing up for work. As much of an apparent primadonna he may be, Ive's best work arguably came out of conflict and the deliberate head-butting that Jobs designed and Tim removed.

All in all, no doubt Tim can lead, but not in the way so far that has truly brought the best out of Apple —> butterfly keyboard and until 2019 neglect of Mac line, two complete overhauls of Mac Pro, until iPadOS the potential of iPad to replace laptops was undercut, 6/6s/7/8 design, taking 6 years since iOS 7 to finally refine the OS design, unclear objective of the initial Apple Watch as the one today is far removed from the more fashion statement in series 0, and overall MSRP hikes across the board..
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I actually think that Ive is overrated, especially without Steve, and that Ive's decisions actually hindered Apple in some ways.

Steve&Ive was a great combination, Cook&Ive not so much. I think we will actually see Apple improving on design now, and it's not as if Ive is dead or unavailable.

People have predicted doom for Apple even before Steve died, and yet they really are doing great and still make great products. Their products were never perfect, and thinking that they were is just looking at the past through rose-colored glasses.

I agree. My main gripe with Apple in recent years is that they have the resources any other company would dream of having — financial, talent, world-class workplace and resources, R&D — but the fruits of all that Apple has at their disposal has not always been meeting the high bar we expect of them. This suggests more of a leadership issue in bringing out the best of all teams - Mac, iOS, TV, services
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I miss Forstall. He had the same crazy look in his eye Steve had.

Yeah up till the maps fiasco, I really saw him as someone who could take over from Steve. Just as Jeff Williams is cut from the same clothe as Tim Cook, I got the same impression with Scott and Steve. They were the right kind of abrasive and at least up till iOS 6 and not really seen till 6 years later with iOS 12 was there the same level of polish in their OS
 
The issue being that Tim is not a product person. Steve Jobs saw the potential for him as then-COO to run the company but not lead it as a visionary as Jobs was.

Fair enough. And if Steve told Tim that he expected Jony to be the "visionary", then when Ive and Forestall supposedly came to "one of us has to go", Tim was clearly going to choose Ive - which he did.


With Forstall, he may have been onto something about how overblown the iOS 6 fiasco was, but Tim just wanted to save face. Remember Jobs when the iPhone 4 antennagate was happening went as far as to say customers were "holding [their iPhone] wrong." Tim does not have the moxy to say something like that with a stiff lip.

Also fair enough, but Tim has not demanded the head of any other Apple senior executive for mistakes made since iOS 6 and Maps that have caused the company public relations grief. I'd argue iOS 7 was more a "fiasco" than iOS 6 and supposedly Alan Dye was a major contributor to that and he is now head of Software Design at Apple. So I personally do not believe that Tim culled Forestall to save face over iOS 6/Maps.


Ive's best work arguably came out of conflict and the deliberate head-butting that Jobs designed and Tim removed.

I agree that Steve was able to tell Jony "no" in a way Tim either could not or would not. And that has impact on Apple's hardware and software over the past decade.


My main gripe with Apple in recent years is that they have the resources any other company would dream of having — financial, talent, world-class workplace and resources, R&D — but the fruits of all that Apple has at their disposal has not always been meeting the high bar we expect of them. This suggests more of a leadership issue in bringing out the best of all teams - Mac, iOS, TV, services

Tim strikes me as a collaborator rather than a dictator (and I mean that in the literal sense - someone who dictates how things are done and not the colloquial sense of a despot). And I do believe there is a leadership issue at Apple, but it is an Organizational Leadership issue rather than an individual one.

Apple is a Functional Organization and as such, Tim Cook and his leadership team have their hands in every product line and as such they can only focus so much on each one - and since iOS (iPhone) has been the primary revenue generator of the company for the last decade, that is where the focus has been and Mac has suffered for it. But it now looks like the team is starting to spread that focus beyond just iPhone and that is starting to pay dividends in iPad (new iPad Pros and iPad OS) and the Mac (refreshed and new products in both the desktop and portable space).

One concern I see is that with Services being the new Apple pivot, the entire leadership team will now be focusing a higher percentage of their time on it then they have in the past. How that will impact the advances we have seen in areas like iPad, Mac and Apple Watch remain to be seen.
 
People can be good at their job and be terrible in front of an audience, that is how I see the three. Jobs commanded it, Cook seems uncomfortable even after many, many years of doing it, he much prefers participation to highlight talent at Apple. Is this move intentional to limit his awkwardness and a side effect makes him look good by not being a stage hog, maybe as that is a personal opinion by the observer. Federighi feels very comfortable on stage and with the audience by interacting with them, he reacts his emotions. He is just fun to watch and hear even though he is demonstrating something mundane, he places in some chatter and is just entertaining. He just knows how to connect the audience with what is being presented.

Just my personal opinion but I don’t like Phil he just comes across as a rear kisser, Eddy has this greasy aura about him, Jeff is much like Cook in his presence on stage, I am willing to give him a change to become comfortable, the rest I have not seen much of on stage and are forgettable.

Federighi is like an unforgettable friend who just seems like a cool person to chill with, he much rather enjoy the people’s company and interact than be a suit, though he is good at what he does.

If I was on an Apple VP island, Federighi would be top on that list with Jonny and Jobs (alternate universe) and runner-ups.

I'm not sure if you're trying to judge reality TV contestants, or business executives?
 
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I'm not sure if you're trying to judge reality TV contestants, or business executives?

A CEO who conducts keynotes and multiple interviews needs to have some charisma for a company such as Apple who markets itself as more customer caring and focused. Compare Apple's keynotes to its rivals such as Microsoft, Google, Samsung, Xiaomi, etc those other keynotes may it be past of present are forgettable and at times cringe worthy compared to keynotes given by Jobs. People still remember Apple keynotes with the introduction of iMac, iPod, iPhone, iPad, G4 Cube, etc. Jobs was great at introducing hardware, however I feel he never captured the audience like Federighi when it comes to software. Cook does a great job with the numbers and it shows, when he introduces a new product there is no enthusiasm conveyed like Jobs, it just blends in like the competitors.

Oddly enough Silicone Valley has made Tech companies into reality TV shows.
 
A CEO who conducts keynotes and multiple interviews needs to have some charisma for a company such as Apple who markets itself as more customer caring and focused. Compare Apple's keynotes to its rivals such as Microsoft, Google, Samsung, Xiaomi, etc those other keynotes may it be past of present are forgettable and at times cringe worthy compared to keynotes given by Jobs. People still remember Apple keynotes with the introduction of iMac, iPod, iPhone, iPad, G4 Cube, etc. Jobs was great at introducing hardware, however I feel he never captured the audience like Federighi when it comes to software. Cook does a great job with the numbers and it shows, when he introduces a new product there is no enthusiasm conveyed like Jobs, it just blends in like the competitors.

Oddly enough Silicone Valley has made Tech companies into reality TV shows.

While CEOs are almost like heads of states in the sense that they are very public figures and thus charisma can be a boost, first and foremost they are required to have competency.

A polished keynote makes a nice little 1-day splash on the securities market; actual company performance controls the tide. If I head an institution holding literally billions of dollars of shares in a company, I care more about what the CEO says in the investor calls than how he affable he is on a walt mossberg interview.

There are plenty of quiet and/or dull executives running very successful companies. I can't name one who keeps a sinking one afloat by sheer force of charisma.... (arguably, outside of Musk?)
 
While CEOs are almost like heads of states in the sense that they are very public figures and thus charisma can be a boost, first and foremost they are required to have competency.

A polished keynote makes a nice little 1-day splash on the securities market; actual company performance controls the tide. If I head an institution holding literally billions of dollars of shares in a company, I care more about what the CEO says in the investor calls than how he affable he is on a walt mossberg interview.

There are plenty of quiet and/or dull executives running very successful companies. I can't name one who keeps a sinking one afloat by sheer force of charisma.... (arguably, outside of Musk?)

No one is expecting a CEO to be good at everything, this is why Jobs had Cook to take care of the supply chain and Jony to take care of hardware design, while the rest took care of services, etc. Jobs instilled confidence in his words during investor calls and interviews the data was reviewed by Cook and provided to investors for review. You are making it sound as if Jobs knew all the digit details, when what was important was key figures that was prepared a team and reviewed by Cook.

It is like sitting through a numbers presentation, what makes it different is the presenter to keep the audience engaged and interested throughout the presentation instead of falling asleep.
 
You are making it sound as if Jobs knew all the digit details, when what was important was key figures that was prepared a team and reviewed by Cook.

It is like sitting through a numbers presentation, what makes it different is the presenter to keep the audience engaged and interested throughout the presentation instead of falling asleep.
The CEO doesnt have responsibility to memorize every number, but rather ultimate responsibility for the numbers getting to where they are. Who reads it out in a presentation - doesnt matter. A cool engaging person does not guarantee the numbers getting to where they are QonQ or YonY
 
You don't say! This is clearly evident in today's Apple, particularly after Tim took over when we had that 3 year product drought (Mac mini, Mac Pro etc).

And by design was Williams also part of that issue ... focusing on the Watch R&D while Mac Mini and Mac Pro took a 4yr nose dive each!

PS: Anyone else notice the 2019 Mac Pro's vents look awefully similar to the rear vents of the Power Mac G4 Sawtooth and quicksilvers around the ports?
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If he was at any other company than Apple, I'd agree with you. But he's CEO of Apple. Great products are (were?) the soul of this company, made possible through the synergy of the CEO and the head designer. Now we have neither. Where does that leave us?

Looks like we're heading for a fruit company that'll soon replace sugar water company's with sugar juice ;) lol or sauce. /jk

Ruined is hyperbolic, but I understand different strokes for different folks.

LOL ... you do recall Apple's 'golden-age' right? They had money to burn hand over fist and Jobs seeked out the sugar-water CEO to run the company allowing him to still search for artists, innovators and the next new fresh ideas keeping him a free spirited entrepreneur. Look how fast Apple burned through all that cash back then ... horrible product design, features, company resources, direction etc. It can all happen yet again. Consider Apple's immensely growing office acquisitions and employee growth! It seems VERY wasteful.

Angela leaves, Jony leaves, and this stuff surfaces.
Bit of a reading the tea leaves but it looks like they're paving the road for Mr. Federighi's role as CEO.

Hmm ... I'd have thought the same 2yrs ago ... yet with Williams pretty much being Cook's clone ... and recalling what we all initially thought of Forstall before the oust in less than 1yr after Jobs' untimely leave ... I give to you this excerpt of another member of these threads, whom so eloquently put it ... just:

(Tim Cook) ... However, an astute manager can tell who's an innovator and who's a wannabe after awhile, who's a team contributor and who's running a self-elevation agenda.

I see Jobs pick of Cook actually NOT being his pick at all yet still another Amelio (or was it that other CEO) Mr sugar water?! Cook I'm sure certainly played his cards like dominos upon every leave of abscence of Jobs operations.
 
LOL ... you do recall Apple's 'golden-age' right? They had money to burn hand over fist and Jobs seeked out the sugar-water CEO to run the company allowing him to still search for artists, innovators and the next new fresh ideas keeping him a free spirited entrepreneur. Look how fast Apple burned through all that cash back then ... horrible product design, features, company resources, direction etc. It can all happen yet again. Consider Apple's immensely growing office acquisitions and employee growth! It seems VERY wasteful....
Sure I agree in principle the future is unknown and uncharted and absolutely anything could happen, like amazon could go the way of blackberry for reasons we can’t fathom today. However one would hope Apple has a solid plan and is not winging it.
 
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Ive's best work arguably came out of conflict and the deliberate head-butting that Jobs designed and Tim removed.

I'm willing to bet that Ive's best work was filtered heavily through Jobs telling him "no" more often than "yes"

One thing I remember under Jobs, was the "Just works" mantra. Going 1mm thinner but making a device that had serious flaws to achieve it? I guarantee that more often than not, Steve told Ive to go back and try again. Where Tim Cook probably says "it'll be cheaper with less material lets do it!"

I think Cook as COO, or similar is his ideal position. Heck, even as CEO of a normally organized company he'd have been amazing. But for Apple where he still keeps close ties to product development, it's clear that Tim Cooks idea of a "good product" lends more to the economics of the device than usability.

Paraphrasing here; But Steve Jobs said a few times, that the goal is to build the best most usable devices, and then price accordingly. If the device is as amazing as possible, people will be willing to pay it.

And I don't think Cook follows this. To him, it's about profit and price points and fitting the products into those pricing bubbles. it's money first. Cost and balance. They design themselves into a box by setting the financial aspect of the product first before designing it.
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Tim strikes me as a collaborator rather than a dictator (and I mean that in the literal sense - someone who dictates how things are done and not the colloquial sense of a despot). And I do believe there is a leadership issue at Apple, but it is an Organizational Leadership issue rather than an individual one.

I think this is the overall major failing of Apple under Tim Cook. A failure to recognize changing reality of a company that is now one of the largest in the world, making dozens of products over numerous product lines.

the old way of Steve Jobs and his executive having direct hands on attention for all products is not something I feel like Tim Cook has been able to reproduce. But at the same time, refuses to re-organize and restructure in a way to provide more autonomy over product cycles.

In a company of the size, with this many products, eachproduct category should be it's own division run by it's own "visionary". Each of those should also have their own teams of semi-autonomous engineers expirimenting and showcasing what they can do. With the divisions visionary keeping forward momentum at all times (Even if the executive isn't paying close attention). Right now the only team that seems to have such autonomy is the CPU/Chip division, which has IMHO been Apples best most forward moving team.

THe Mac Pro should never have languished for so many years. Laptops should never go more than 1 full year without a spec bump (you don't need executives control to manage that!). Heck even 6 months is probably reasonable. The product list goes on where you can see focus on one or two products while everything else "sits". I think Cook is going to wind up the "ballmer" of Apple. The next guy in charge hopefully will either bring with him a bunch of design focused people, or restructure in a way to allow for the more autonomy. Something Cook should have been working towards instead of trying to continue doing it the Steve Jobs way without a Steve Jobs
 
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One thing I remember under Jobs, was the "Just works" mantra. Going 1mm thinner but making a device that had serious flaws to achieve it? I guarantee that more often than not, Steve told Ive to go back and try again. Where Tim Cook probably says "it'll be cheaper with less material lets do it!"

With the butterfly keyboard switch, cost probably was not a driver since it required R&D to develop and then a new production chain to make it.

I think testing is the Achilles Heel of these issues - a lab environment is not representative of "real world". They likely tested them mechanically with robots in a semi-clean room where foreign debris was not an issue (see also the Samsung Galaxy Fold). So the idea that a small piece of hard debris could physically damage the switches just never came up until the model was in the field and Apple has been trying to fix that since.



I think this is the overall major failing of Apple under Tim Cook. A failure to recognize changing reality of a company that is now one of the largest in the world, making dozens of products over numerous product lines.

I feel the exact opposite. He realizes that Apple cannot coast on iPhone sales forever because the market is saturated where Apple plays in. The only real option to expand iPhone sales is to make a cheaper product out of cheaper materials with a cheaper overall experience and the iPhone 5C showed that Apple's clientele will not accept that.

So just as Steve saw the iPod plateau and moved on to iPhone and iPad, so has Tim seen iPhone start to plateau and is (finally) paying attention to the Mac as well as entering other markets: wearables (Apple Watch), home assistants (Homepod), and services (Apple TV+, Apple Music, etc) that can tie into their hardware (Apple TV, Homepod, Mac, iPhone/iPad).


The old way of Steve Jobs and his executive having direct hands on attention for all products is not something I feel like Tim Cook has been able to reproduce. But at the same time, refuses to re-organize and restructure in a way to provide more autonomy over product cycles.

There were a lot less product lines, much less products, for Steve and his team to manage back then. And Apple was very successful because they followed an Organizational model versus a Functional one under Steve.


In a company of the size, with this many products, each product category should be it's own division run by it's own "visionary". Each of those should also have their own teams of semi-autonomous engineers experimenting and showcasing what they can do. With the divisions visionary keeping forward momentum at all times.

I would not at all be surprised that Apple under the 'Three Stooges' between Steve's tenures went with a Functional model where each product category had it's own executive team focus and there was little to no collaboration.


The Mac Pro should never have languished for so many years. Laptops should never go more than 1 full year without a spec bump (you don't need executives control to manage that!). Heck even 6 months is probably reasonable. The product list goes on where you can see focus on one or two products while everything else "sits".

I fully agree that Apple has been too focused on a leadership level with iOS (and the iPhone particularly), but that was because it generated the vast majority of the company's revenues so it was a case of "the most important child gets the attention". However, that looks to be changing. The MacBook Pro is being updated on a sub-annual schedule with even newer models rumored to be coming within months of the last round of updates.

That being said, Apple does not ship the volumes the major PC OEMs do nor do they do so at their (average) low prices. The PC OEMs update annually because the bulk of their sales are to the enterprise which are on rolling upgrade schedules so they can (try) and tailor their inventory levels to those schedules (that they have so many closeouts implies they're not as good at it as they like).

Apple ships far less systems and the bulk of their sales are to consumers who do not follow a regular schedule for purchasing. So Apple would have to BTO everything to make sure they are not sitting on a large inventory of outdated models. And yes, Apple could just clearance sale them, but then there is the risk people just wait for the new model to be released and then buy the clearance model (since for the significant majority of purchasers, the technical updates mean nothing to them - unlike the folks like us who frequent this forum).


I think Cook is going to wind up the "ballmer" of Apple. The next guy in charge hopefully will either bring with him a bunch of design focused people, or restructure in a way to allow for the more autonomy. Something Cook should have been working towards instead of trying to continue doing it the Steve Jobs way without a Steve Jobs

To truly be the Steve Balmer of Apple, Tim would have to continue to focus on iPhone and try and force everything else to fit in the iPhone box (as Balmer did with his "Windows Everywhere" policy). Instead, it looks like Apple is willing to keep supporting different operating systems and their unique experiences they bring to their products (iOS, macOS, watchOS, tvOS) even as they try and cross-pollinate them where prudent to try and support older platforms (Catalyst on macOS, for example).
 
I think someone already changed your mind, judging by the fairly recent Apple products you own.
I don't think Apple innovates anymore, but they make generally good stuff.

I didn't say I wouldn't get anything new, BUT I have obviously not gotten anything newer than 2016 because the features did not warrant such a purchase. Though I will say, the 8 plus would be my last because I simply don't like the user experience of the iPhone X model of phones. But that's just me. As for the laptop, yeah my other died and the model I have was the last you could upgrade the memory etc. My Mac Pro is a classic 2010 model so there's no way on earth I'll upgrade that. I no longer do things that require that horsepower anymore.

Circle back to my point, the guys who are now all gone, really weren't that good at all. Steve had a mind that was something that only he could understand. Just use iOS6 again and you'll see what I mean about a nice simple user interface. Sure things require change but the overall look and usability of the OS is not like it used to be, sans necessary feature upgrades due to tech changing.
 
Tim would have to continue to focus on iPhone and try and force everything else to fit in the iPhone box

you mean like iOS and the iPhone for Apple being the main product focus with almost all services and accessories reliant on them?

I think you've just really helped my point though. Cook is a Balmer style leader..
 
you mean like iOS and the iPhone for Apple being the main product focus with almost all services and accessories reliant on them?

I think you've just really helped my point though. Cook is a Balmer style leader..
It doesn’t seem to matter what he’s called. I personally think he’s Balmer++, which is a mixture of balmer and jobs.
 
you mean like iOS and the iPhone for Apple being the main product focus with almost all services and accessories reliant on them?

You can use their services on the Mac, too (and the Mac will now support HDR/4K content, which is a first). You can use Apple Music on Android and PC. And Apple TV+ (via Airplay 2) is now expanding to major Smart TV OEMs so you are no longer required to have an Apple TV connected.
 
You can use their services on the Mac, too (and the Mac will now support HDR/4K content, which is a first). You can use Apple Music on Android and PC. And Apple TV+ (via Airplay 2) is now expanding to major Smart TV OEMs so you are no longer required to have an Apple TV connected.

yes, Hence why I think that Tim in 2019 has finally "woken up" to the realities of the company. Some of these things should have happened much earlier. But Cook was trying really hard for several years to enforce the "if you want to use apple services, you have to have an iPhone" until the writing was on the wall that it wasn't going to fly. I think the direction of opening up services outside of the iPhone is something that should have happened in all earnest 3-5 years ago. it should not have taken till 2019 for most of them to go multi-platform.

However, Tim is still holding on to the iPhone centricity for hardware. Accessories like HomePod and Apple watch are still exclusive to Apple services and hardware. Both require an iPhone to just use.
 
...
However, Tim is still holding on to the iPhone centricity for hardware. Accessories like HomePod and Apple watch are still exclusive to Apple services and hardware. Both require an iPhone to just use.
Apple Music? I think Apple Watch will be decoupled, not that you can use it with android. AirPods are decoupled. HomePod should be decoupled.
 
Oh boy. A core concept uncovered...software has bugs...ask Microsoft and android for verification.

Of course all software was bug free in Steve Jobs’ time.;)
Apple software has declined measurably in quality and security this decade.

This has been well-documented by the technology press.

Google "Apple software quality problem" and see how many tier-1 publications have written extensively about how much worse Apple software is now.

Not taking care of hardware and software product quality is why I think they should #FIRETHEACCOUNTANT.
 
Apple software has declined measurably in quality and security this decade.
Straw man, it can’t be proven.

This has been well-documented by the technology press.

Google "Apple software quality problem" and see how many tier-1 publications have written extensively about how much worse Apple software is now.

Not taking care of hardware and software product quality is why I think they should #FIRETHEACCOUNTANT.
Look at cve and see the higher severity of android issues than iOS issues overall.
 
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