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I see no reason why a customer paying for the TV they watch is a bad idea. Only watch one football game a month? That's fine, you don't need 24/7 Sky Sports 1, 2, and 3 broadcast into your home all month at a cost of around £30.

You've just described exactly the reason why it's a bad idea, at least from the cable company's perspective :)

He's not refusing the idea of moving to the internet. His issue was Jobs wanting HALF of the advertising revenue. His thinking may have been something like "today we get 100% of ad revenue; partner with Apple on this and we get 50% of ad revenue. I see what's in it for Apple. What's in it for CBS?"

Yes. The key is the potential growth, the idea that you might only be gaining 50% of the revenue but you might get twice as many customers -- or many times more.

It's like how the Angry Birds folks sold their game for only 99 cents -- it sounds ridiculous at first, until you realize how many millions of copies it has sold and how much spinoff merchandizing it has created.
 
I was reading about this over the weekend on theverge, engadget, and iphonedownloadblog…very interesting. It seems the tv people are content with currently making truckloads of cash. If it ain't broke… Believe it or not people, Steve Jobs didn't know everything.

Nothing was wrong with the Mac business as well for Apple since this business alone is a Fortune 500 company. However, Apple was willing to take a chance and cannibalize it with the iPad which is half the price. Now Apple is reaping the rewards for being bold.

Les Moonves is protecting a business model that is successful but will die off sooner than later. We are in a transitional age which can make great men. Apparently, what drives Moonves is fear more than anything.
 
Ha

It seems like MacRumors users aren't too familiar with the way network TV works.

First post to answer the question "how does CBS extract itself from its affiliate contracts?" is the one that's allowed to criticize Moonves.

But without addressing that I'm afraid it's pointless to say "just go on the internet, CBS!" Yeah, ok. How? This is not at all like the music business where the labels held all the cards. Moonves has dozens of local CBS affiliate stations to placate.

I'm not saying the internet isn't the future of TV, I'm just saying that unlike with music and films, it's going to be a much, much longer and messier transition here. You can't expect any TV network to just make this happen quickly.
 
50% of the revenue... I'm sorry but that might be fine with Music. But I think there, there is a difference between music and Tv. For one it cost so much more to make than a song, the quality would go down and two it can take maybe a day to record a song but it take more time to create a show. Everyone is saying how the Tv companies are getting greedy, look at apple guys really come on, they still use FoxCom and we all know the conditions are not going to be changing, they want everyone to have there products and yet they sill have high prices. Yes there giving out a lot of jobs to people, but mostly in other countries... Then there is the sad part to all of this. They know I will pay for it... What I might be mad at apple at the moment, still doesn't mean I'm not in love with there products. I just wish they would stop pretending and show us who there really are.
 
TV and FILM industries have to wake up and realise their megabuck days are numbered. Better to go first than try catch up later.

When the megabucks end, so goes the content production. A model that flows 30%+ to Apple and cuts our current cable/satt bills by 80% or more (in some magical cheap subscription offering from Apple) means tons of shows, movies, etc could not be produced anymore. Sure, there's profits in the entertainment business- even fat profits- but it's the lure of those potential fat profits that motivate the show & movie entrepreneurs to risk money on all those failures (all the shows/movies that flop) to deliver a few that turn into big hits.

Kill the "megabucks" and you kill that risk model. And don't think for a minute that that would mean that only the "good" shows will be made. If there was any way to tell the good shows from the bad shows, we would have long since only been getting good shows. A future of low margin/no margin video-oriented entertainment is YouTube content. We already have that future.

In a nutshell, somebody has to pay and it won't be Apple. That means either the Studios take a massive hit to their revenues (which will kill off interest in producing most shows/movies) OR we consumers have to pay up. We already have that latter model too in the iTunes store "as is". But we don't want that either because the pricing is "too high".

What we apparently want is to pay <20% of what we currently pay now for cable/satt, get all of our programming commercial free, let Apple take 30%+ of what we pay and have those who actually make all that content take the massive hit. We also expect our broadband internet provider- which is probably our cable provider- to just roll over and let their cable subscription business be swallowed up by Apple while Apple's replacement solution is dependent on the cable provider's broadband pipes. And we ignore the flaws in the thinking because we want Apple to rule the world and we think we'll somehow end up paying for a fraction of our existing cable/satt bills while getting all of our desired programming.:rolleyes:
 
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Wirelessly posted (Opera/9.80 (Android 2.3.5; Linux; Opera Mobi/ADR-1203051631; U; en) Presto/2.10.254 Version/12.00)

the only reason tv networks aren't doing this is stupidity. The only reason they have been spared while The music industry was destroyed by piracy is due to the speed of broadband internet. once that changes the piracy will really start to go crazy and they will be forces to so deals with Apple unfortunately if Cook is like Jobs their terms will be far worse once it gets to that point. With the speeds of LTE networks that time is approaching all that needs to change is increased coverage and increased data caps( or having Apple pay for the bandwidth and include it in the cost which AT&T talked about like 2 weeks ago)
 
It seems the tv people are content with currently making truckloads of cash. If it ain't broke… Believe it or not people, Steve Jobs didn't know everything.

Seems is the key word. They aren't really making truckloads. If they were then they wouldn't be canceling shows left and right due to lack of budget make good etc. And replacing decent scripted shows with more reality crap.

Because they aren't really making truckloads, they are in fear of anything that could perhaps maybe screw with the way they make what they do make which is the ratings. Les etc are worried if they make digital/online more viable it will cut into the ratings despite the fact that less than 100k folks determine those ratings. Despite the fact that online could bring in more money if they would just agree to do the work to add it to the make good for each show. Despite the fact that better online access cut curtail the pirating they hate so much and use as an excuse to keep things off online.

Even just keeping the same iTunes model and reducing prices while decreasing wait times would help if people like Les were willing. Heck there are current CBS shows that aren't on iTunes at all and who knows if they will ever be.
 
Not in the near future it isnt. Sure it'll be an option, but theres no way in hell it'll be internet-exclusive within the next say, 5 years. Too many areas are still on very slow connections.

Bandwidth isn't the issue at the moment. It's the men in charge. Like Les. They don't want to start the change. If they started it the bandwidth issue could actually start to improve because there would be a reason to need it.

Last week Fox cancelled Terra Nova despite admitting that it had been a break even for them while other shows that should have been making a profit for them were not. But the Studio announced they weren't giving up just yet. They were going to shop the show. Given the names involved I think it would be stellar if, should no one want to take the show for OTA, they should just keep producing it and put it up online and iTunes and let the viewers buy it and basically fund it themselves. I'm sure Spielberg etc can afford to put up the costs from all their millions and billions they have made. And perhaps it would be an experiment that would show the Les's of the TV world that online isn't a money losing game and they will get their heads out of their collective butts and figure out that viewing tastes have diversified so viewing options should also. Or folks will do it behind their backs and they won't make a cent out of it that they could
 
Typical

Moonves, like other Legacy CEO's is looking at what revenue is for the next day. Apple is run completely differently.

Apple has been brilliant not to allow Hulu on Apple TV. I use to complain about it but seeing what it has turned in to, that being a torrent of commercials, the move was smart.

These people are good at eaking out every last penny from the content they've got. This just isn't Apple's model. Instead of eaking out every last penny they want to just have a penny from all content. Very different.
 
Yes. The key is the potential growth, the idea that you might only be gaining 50% of the revenue but you might get twice as many customers -- or many times more.

It's like how the Angry Birds folks sold their game for only 99 cents -- it sounds ridiculous at first, until you realize how many millions of copies it has sold and how much spinoff merchandizing it has created.

First, you have to be able to build the bridge from here to there. Taking a hit from now until the time that volume can make up for massive revenue hits (again, Steve wanted HALF of the ad revenue) is a long and painful bridge to cross for those not named Apple.

Second, while a nice example, Angry Birds is an extreme example. How many other Angry Birds stories are there? Or, how many other 99 cent games have been offered in the app store that flopped.

Third, Apple somewhat made it's own bed with their music industry cousins. The video people have witnesses Apple strong arming the music industry peers ever since Apple gained dominant hold on that industry. The video people want no part in allowing Apple to gain dominant muscle over them too. That's why this is not already done and why- year after year- we keep seeing information about Apple trying to make Netflix-like deals, "best of" subscription offering deals, etc. and it just can't get done.

If we buy into the "greedy Studios" mindset, wouldn't the greedy Studios want to do anything to maximize their profits... especially by selling their stuff directly to consumers (cutting out the cable/satt middlemen's cut)? Why wouldn't they be all over getting as deeply entrenched with Apple as possible? As is obvious even within this thread, we assume short sightedness, etc.

The key is for Apple to be able to show them a way to make more money with Apple's replacement solution. What is sounds like Apple keeps doing is illustrating how Apple is going to make a lot of money. Netflix has long been a competitor in this internet subscription model because they basically write the big checks to secure the content. What keeps coming out- in this story too- is Apple wants a big cut. What's always missing is how the Studios will make more money this year than last.

And then there's us consumers who think that somehow we will pay a lot less for the content we want. If Apple wins (big cut of revenue) and we win (big cut in what we pay), the only loser- and it would be a big loser- is the Studios. Now, why would they want to do that to make Apple richer (and potentially putting Apple in a position of great dominance over them)?
 
Right there is the problem. He might know the business as it was, but has no idea about where it is going and doesn't know how to make that work and embrace it.

This internet thing is the future, Les. Go with it.



I have to agree with Moonves on this. CBS is taking all the risk in finding/developing/contracting for content. Content is what drives viewers, which drives ad revenues. Apple is essentially a carrier. It seems to me Apple should be charging fixed fees or access charges. They shouldn't charge more for carrying more valuable content.
 
See that's the difference between you and me (and millions of others) if I can't pay for it, I'll wait until I'm able to pay for it. People try to justify piracy any way they can. :rolleyes:

No one is trying to justify anything, it's the reality of things.

Not available online? Torrent it. Not available for rent when I want it? Torrent it. Not available in HD? Torrent it.

If it's available online, for rent and in HD, I pay for it. If it isn't, well… sucks to be them.
 
No one is trying to justify anything, it's the reality of things. Not available online? Torrent it. Not available for rent when I want it? Torrent it. Not available in HD? Torrent it. If it's available online, for rent and in HD, I pay for it. If it isn't, well… sucks to be them.

and

the only reason tv networks aren't doing this is stupidity. The only reason they have been spared while The music industry was destroyed by piracy is due to the speed of broadband internet. once that changes the piracy will really start to go crazy and they will be forces to so deals with Apple unfortunately if Cook is like Jobs their terms will be far worse once it gets to that point.

If you are right- and piracy comes to rule the video world- the video producers will no longer be able to make new shows/movies. If you are right- and Apple comes to dominate the movie/tv industry because piracy has forced them into allowing Apple to do so- Apple's 30%+ cut plus the pirates demand for super cheap pricing (else "I'll just pirate the stuff") means the video producers will no longer be able to make new shows/movies.

We already have the model in which low-cost/no-cost video is produced. That's YouTube. That's the quality of programming we should expect in a "future" where Apple plugs in as the new middleman and we consumers pay <20% of what we pay now for our video subscription.

With the speeds of LTE networks that time is approaching all that needs to change is increased coverage and increased data caps( or having Apple pay for the bandwidth and include it in the cost which AT&T talked about like 2 weeks ago)

And if you think the arrival of LTE is somehow going to unlock all of these huge video files flowing to us consumers who are paying a much cheaper price than now for them... or- even better- Apple is paying those tolls for us (ha, ha, ha... that's a really good one), might I remind you that those who generally are quite happy with their video subscriptions now (Verizon, AT&T, etc) are the LTE toll masters too. Those who control the pipes that link us all to iCloud are not going to allow Apple's replacement solution to exploit the tollmasters pipes and eat up the tollmasters video subscription businesses.
 
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Ha

It seems like MacRumors users aren't too familiar with the way network TV works.

First post to answer the question "how does CBS extract itself from its affiliate contracts?" is the one that's allowed to criticize Moonves.

But without addressing that I'm afraid it's pointless to say "just go on the internet, CBS!" Yeah, ok. How? This is not at all like the music business where the labels held all the cards. Moonves has dozens of local CBS affiliate stations to placate.

I'm not saying the internet isn't the future of TV, I'm just saying that unlike with music and films, it's going to be a much, much longer and messier transition here. You can't expect any TV network to just make this happen quickly.

Wouldn't an easier way be for CBS to have the same commercials as on TV. Use the iPad or iPhone GPS to locate what market you are in and then commercials are shown for that area. Affiliates get the some revenue as does CBS. Of course that is way over simplified but it is a start.
 
Seems is the key word. They aren't really making truckloads. If they were then they wouldn't be canceling shows left and right due to lack of budget make good etc. And replacing decent scripted shows with more reality crap.

Because they aren't really making truckloads, they are in fear of anything that could perhaps maybe screw with the way they make what they do make which is the ratings. Les etc are worried if they make digital/online more viable it will cut into the ratings despite the fact that less than 100k folks determine those ratings. Despite the fact that online could bring in more money if they would just agree to do the work to add it to the make good for each show. Despite the fact that better online access cut curtail the pirating they hate so much and use as an excuse to keep things off online.

Even just keeping the same iTunes model and reducing prices while decreasing wait times would help if people like Les were willing. Heck there are current CBS shows that aren't on iTunes at all and who knows if they will ever be.

Yah but your post is mostly opinion and speculation.
 
Wouldn't an easier way be for CBS to have the same commercials as on TV. Use the iPad or iPhone GPS to locate what market you are in and then commercials are shown for that area. Affiliates get the some revenue as does CBS. Of course that is way over simplified but it is a start.

I think that's what probably all of them would like: their own app/channel where they get to keep 100% of the ad revenues as they do now. A big issue in this- that people seem to keep overlooking- is that Apple wanted to take 50% of that 100%. The trick is for Apple to show those who own the content and produce the shows we want to watch how they- the content producers- can make MORE money with Apple's replacement solution. It sounds like Apple keeps coming off as illustrating how Apple is going to make a lot more money.
 
No one is trying to justify anything, it's the reality of things.

Not available online? Torrent it. Not available for rent when I want it? Torrent it. Not available in HD? Torrent it.

If it's available online, for rent and in HD, I pay for it. If it isn't, well… sucks to be them.

Do you have any idea what 'justify' means? You just did it 3 times in one post

"Not available online? Torrent it. Not available for rent when I want it? Torrent it. Not available in HD? Torrent it."
 
MacRumor Armchair Analysts and Business Developers are MacRumor Armchair Analysts and Business Developers.
 
Do you have any idea what 'justify' means? You just did it 3 times in one post

"Not available online? Torrent it. Not available for rent when I want it? Torrent it. Not available in HD? Torrent it."

Do you have any what 'to read' is?

"No one is trying to justify anything, it's the reality of things."

I'm not trying to prove I'm right. It is what it is.
 
Any shows that I have a specific interest in, as opposed to channel surfing, are on the Networks, most of which are on CBS and Fox. However, due to my location, I have yet to find an OTA antenna that allows me to receive anything with clarity and consistency. This is not enough reason for me to continue subscribing to cable TV.

I enjoy the experience of using my Apple TV. Comcast TV hardware is clunky in every aspect.

I enjoy using Netflix for pseudo channel surfing. Any content I own is because I enjoy it enough for repeat performances. Comcast, at any given time, rarely has anything that interests me unless I sit down with the intent of watching a specific show.

I pay Comcast for my internet service because it is reliable and I use it often. I pay for Netflix because I enjoy the DVD service and the streaming content. If CBS and the other networks provide their content to me through a provider and hardware that I enjoy using, they will receive revenue from my viewing habits, either in sales or ad viewing (e.g., Hulu for example).
 
Wouldn't an easier way be for CBS to have the same commercials as on TV. Use the iPad or iPhone GPS to locate what market you are in and then commercials are shown for that area. Affiliates get the some revenue as does CBS. Of course that is way over simplified but it is a start.

Perhaps, but this only backs up my "TV is way more complicated" argument.

I always thoughyt that I knew what the music industry should do. And it turns out, what I always said is where they ended up. I think they had easier answers, they were just afraid.

But I'm not quite clear what the TV industry should do. All of my answers come back to "the actual production studios should start putting shows directly on the internet."

In other words, my only ideas involve destroying the networks themselves. So if I were Moonves I really don't know what the hell I'd do.
 
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