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This isn't an issue of CBS not embracing the internet. I'm absolutely positive that they know the internet is the direction the industry is heading. This deal fell through strictly because Apple was trying to take half the ad revenue, which to me seems quite excessive when CBS is the one funding these multi-million dollar shows.

Ugh gross, I can't believe I just stuck up for CBS. I hate them.

However, I am graduating from college in two months and entering the TV industry. Wish me luck ;)
 
It's this kind of thing that's going to make an Apple Television virtually impossible. For the tv to be revolutionary, the content will have to all come from Apple via a subscription. That way, they can deliver all of your content via a consistently great interface. But if your Apple subscription only has some shows available, only some channels available, then it's a dealbreaker. And they'll never get all of the content providers on board, because they think like this guy.

As others have pointed out, this should be no different to the channel owners than how they offer their content up to both cable and satellite providers simultaneously. Apple in this case would simply be a third provider.
 
I'll further add

Steve Jobs was a smart guy - no denying that. But that doesn't mean he had all the answers. It doesn't mean he always knew better than others in the industry - his own or other industries. The world is made up of many very smart and savvy business people.
 
I'll further add

Steve Jobs was a smart guy - no denying that. But that doesn't mean he had all the answers. It doesn't mean he always knew better than others in the industry - his own or other industries. The world is made up of many very smart and savvy business people.

It's too bad many here don't realize that.
 
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Oh well this would be a great service and I would most definitely sign up and use it. Too bad they declined, luckily it's extremely easy to pirate all these TV shows anyway.
 
This isn't an issue of CBS not embracing the internet. I'm absolutely positive that they know the internet is the direction the industry is heading. This deal fell through strictly because Apple was trying to take half the ad revenue, which to me seems quite excessive when CBS is the one funding these multi-million dollar shows.

Ugh gross, I can't believe I just stuck up for CBS. I hate them.

However, I am graduating from college in two months and entering the TV industry. Wish me luck ;)

I've been thinking more of this since my previous reponse... so my thinking is "evolved" a bit.

In CBS' business model, they sell advertising, then the content is shown via a few CBS-owned local stations and a large number of independently-owned affifiliates. Typically though, some ad slots are set aside for local ads, or the ad revenue is shared with affiliates.

So wouldn't Apple be more like an affiliate in this case? So why couldn't CBS' model be stretched to treat Apple in the same way as an affiliate, which does involve some sharing of advertising revenues?

Admittedly, this DOES screw the affiliates, in the long run; but I don't see how CBS proper really suffers.
 
So wouldn't Apple be more like an affiliate in this case? So why couldn't CBS' model be stretched to treat Apple in the same way as an affiliate, which does involve some sharing of advertising revenues?

Admittedly, this DOES screw the affiliates, in the long run; but I don't see how CBS proper really suffers.
Les Moonves didn't site it as an issue, but I believe that the networks live and die by their affiliates and are very careful not to do anything to piss them off.
 
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Apple should create a subsidiary and buy all the popular canceled shows and make new episodes of FireFly, Arrested Deveoplement, and Sarah Connor Chronicles.
 
I think people praising Jobs here on this issue are absolutely in the wrong. He knew about simplicity, and making good electronic products, but he should have realized that in the TV business content is absolutely king (which is why many people $100+ for cable), and the content providers have to be allowed to dictate prices for some period. And the content providers have to be coaxed in -- they are too wary of repeating what they see as the recording industry's mistake, in allowing the perceived value of their product to fall in the ITunes Store. Threatening to take a percentage of advertising revenue seems to especially foolish, because the networks see that business as their crown jewel, because, despite splintering audiences, TV still has the broadest reach that advertisers covet. It would be smarter to take the route of slow strangulation; when consumers discover they really prefer to watch all their content everywhere, exclusive to their iDevices, Apple can then credibly threaten to punish individual content providers who don't bow to its whim by cutting them from their well-controlled ecosystem. That would be the way to do it, IMO.
 
Apple should create a subsidiary and buy all the popular canceled shows and make new episodes of FireFly, Arrested Deveoplement, and Sarah Connor Chronicles.

The reason those kinds of shows are canceled is because they were not as profitable- or potentially profitable- as the shows that replaced them. It's rarely a question of whether a show is good or bad but how profitable the show is vs. alternatives (that's why prime time can fill with so many reality shows- cheap(er) to make and still get a good price on the commercials).

Apple doesn't want to get into that business of becoming a Studio because- contrary to us arguing against "greedy Studios", there isn't the Apple margin in becoming a Studio). Or, more simply, if Apple becomes the Studio and sells their content directly to us end users, from where do the profits come? Does Apple take the hit to deliver our favorite shows to us for <20% what we pay now for our cable/satt subscriptions... or does Apple look to us to pay up to make sure Apple makes their profit?

When it's just Apple and us in the chain, there's nobody else to pay for it. Right now, you have this big advertising model that chips in lots of money (other people's money) to help pay for the productions of both shows we watch and shows we don't watch. You have a bunch of channels "I never watch" that are running commercials that are generating revenue to pay Studios to make stuff on those channels AND on the channels "I do watch."

WE keep slinging around this idea of getting rid of all the channels "I" don't watch (killing all the advertising revenues from those channels), and getting only the shows "I" do want to watch. We rationalize that with funny math like $100 for 200 channels- I watch 10 channels- my monthly bill should be $5/month (50 cents per channel), though we must know that if we suddenly remove- in that case- 95% of the revenue flow from us to the supply, the supply must dramatically fall... even more so when we simultaneously kill off the advertising revenues (other people paying to help make the shows we watch) in this new model. Then, we want Apple to get their 30%+ too. All that said, why does any Studio want to continue to be in THAT business if we get everything we want?
 
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WE keep slinging around this idea of getting rid of all the channels "I" don't watch (killing all the advertising revenues from those channels), and getting only the shows "I" do want to watch. We rationalize that with funny math like $100 for 200 channels- I watch 10 channels- my monthly bill should be $5/month (50 cents per channel), though we must know that if we suddenly remove- in that case- 95% of the revenue flow from us to the supply, the supply must dramatically fall... even more so when we simultaneously kill off the advertising revenues (other people paying to help make the shows we watch) in this new model. Then, we want Apple to get their 30%+ too. All that said, why does any Studio want to continue to be in THAT business if we get everything we want?

Only the people are better armchair business devs are slinging this idea around. Those that understand HOW the model actually works agree with you Darryl.
 
The reality is that television (and movie) content providers are in a much different position than the music content providers ten years ago. The music industry was desparate and Jobs offered them salvation on iTunes. Today, the television and movie industry is enjoying record profits and making larger and larger content deals with streaming companies like Netflix. Apple is definitely powerful but it will be hard to convince the studios until their earnings start drying up. Yes, bittorrent is an issue but nowhere near as ubiquition as Napster was.

Looking forward, I think Apple and the studios will have to come together on a solution that is favorable for both and not so tilted in Apple's favor.

Also, I don't see Apple buying a studio as much as I think they should buy Disney (they get ABC and ESPN as well) because they can't afford to piss off the other studios.
 
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Therein lies the problem with the TV broadcasting industry.
They are adamant about protecting their current revenue stream to the point of not being able to the forest from the trees.

We do not have cable in the house, we watch no live TV. We only watch what we wish via downloading. If I could get the shows I'd like to watch piecemeal on demand then I would sign up for such a service. Apple can bring this to the table, I'm sure of it.

Apple will eventually sign up one of these guys, do extremely well and the others will follow once they see it can be done profitably. All it takes is one of them to be the first to take the risk. Nobody wants to be the guinea pig of course!

I'm done with cable TV packages with tons of channels I'm not interested in.
 
Therein lies the problem with the TV broadcasting industry.
They are adamant about protecting their current revenue stream to the point of not being able to the forest from the trees.

We do not have cable in the house, we watch no live TV. We only watch what we wish via downloading. If I could get the shows I'd like to watch piecemeal on demand then I would sign up for such a service. Apple can bring this to the table, I'm sure of it.

Apple will eventually sign up one of these guys, do extremely well and the others will follow once they see it can be done profitably. All it takes is one of them to be the first to take the risk. Nobody wants to be the guinea pig of course!

I'm done with cable TV packages with tons of channels I'm not interested in.

How much do you pay for all the content you are watching currently?
 
Therein lies the problem with the TV broadcasting industry.
They are adamant about protecting their current revenue stream to the point of not being able to the forest from the trees.

We do not have cable in the house, we watch no live TV. We only watch what we wish via downloading. If I could get the shows I'd like to watch piecemeal on demand then I would sign up for such a service. Apple can bring this to the table, I'm sure of it.

Apple will eventually sign up one of these guys, do extremely well and the others will follow once they see it can be done profitably. All it takes is one of them to be the first to take the risk. Nobody wants to be the guinea pig of course!

I'm done with cable TV packages with tons of channels I'm not interested in.

I wonder how many people are cutting the cord like you are. I still think it is a small minority compared to the majority pirating music before. The studios will move when more people start cutting the cord. They are paid by the number of subscribers the cable/sat companies have and it has to start declining considerably first.
 
Right there is the problem. He might know the business as it was, but has no idea about where it is going and doesn't know how to make that work and embrace it.

This internet thing is the future, Les. Go with it.

Exactly. So remind me, Les, which of the music services (iTunes, Rhapsody, Spotify, et. al.) are run by the music industry execs who "knew what their business was"?
 
Ha

It seems like MacRumors users aren't too familiar with the way network TV works.

First post to answer the question "how does CBS extract itself from its affiliate contracts?" is the one that's allowed to criticize Moonves.

I'm not too familiar with the way TV networks work but since ABC and NBC had no such problems I guess they're not familiar with it either... :rolleyes:

Besides, I believe Howard Stern who knows Moonves very well. He essentially describes the guy as an incompetent buffoon and a moron.
 
What we apparently want is to pay <20% of what we currently pay now for cable/satt, get all of our programming commercial free, let Apple take 30%+ of what we pay and have those who actually make all that content take the massive hit. We also expect our broadband internet provider- which is probably our cable provider- to just roll over and let their cable subscription business be swallowed up by Apple while Apple's replacement solution is dependent on the cable provider's broadband pipes. And we ignore the flaws in the thinking because we want Apple to rule the world and we think we'll somehow end up paying for a fraction of our existing cable/satt bills while getting all of our desired programming.:rolleyes:
I think people would follow your good points (red) better if you didn't have "fanboy" eyerolling (blue) points to cloud the issue.

I dropped my $95 TV bill 1.5 years ago. There are almost no shows that I wanted to watch back then that I don't get now for free or at least at far less cost, without commercials (at least, via DVR/fast forward).

It would be a lot easier to tolerate CBS's greed if they had a decent showing at all on the internet. But their website player is horrible, beyond the regular horribleness of Flash. Their track record dealing with Hulu is crap, although I suppose not surprising since Hulu comes from their 3 main competitors.

Frankly, the answer is to get rid of free, OTA TV. Free TV was mandated how many decades ago, and that is what created the scummy, advertising-based system in the first place. (and I say this as someone using OTA as my main source of TV) But that is even less likely to happen. More likely is we'll see a gradual decline that will lead to more networks going under and merging with others or with providers (NBC, anyone?). And then we'll start to see more major internet-only content come out (content, not providers, there are already providers like Netflix), and industry change from there. This industry is not the same as the music industry, as discussed above, but it will have to change eventually.

----------

Besides, I believe Howard Stern who knows Moonves very well. He essentially describes the guy as an incompetent buffoon and a moron.
Well, there's a high-quality source. :rolleyes:
 
Frankly, the answer is to get rid of free, OTA TV. Free TV was mandated how many decades ago, and that is what created the scummy, advertising-based system in the first place.

You do realize that that "scummy model" is what pays for a great deal of the content we like? In other words, WE don't have to pay for that OTA because those people who are advertising during our shows are coughing up the money so that we get those shows.

I've posted this before but here it is again: last year, just the ads (no subscriptions) generated $49 Billion dollars in revenues. 300 million people in the U.S. with about 4 per household = 75 million households. $49 billion divided by 75 million households = $654 per year, per household. That's $654 that advertisers pay that supports the content creators... money we don't have to cough up ourselves.

Get rid of that "scum" and somebody else has to make up for that revenue OR tons of programming goes away. $654/12 = $54 per month. I never see anyone slinging around the dream of the Apple subscription alternative at about $54+/month. It's always $30, or often, much less than $30.

But wait. This move will get rid of all the junk "I" don't watch so that only the good shows remain, right? No. First my junk is somebody else's most treasured shows. Second, that $54 per month is not just the commercials "I" have to watch but all the commercials I don't see because they're on the channels I'm not watching... or when I'm asleep... or when the TV is turned off. Take that $54/month out and it has to be made up from somewhere. If it's not "scummy" ads, it's cash out of pocket (subscriptions).

So, if Apple's replacement is to:
  • help those that make the content make at least as much as they make now, the $54/month from each household becomes the starting point for THE price
  • The many artists that make the shows we like (and the shows we hate but someone else loves) need to be paid something to continue to do their jobs
  • Apple wants their 30%+ on top of that (in this case, it appears Apple wanted FIFTY percent of the ad revenues)
  • etc.
OR, there will be dramatic reductions in content availability which will not necessarily result in only "my" favorite shows being the survivors.

On top of all of that, Apple's replacement would still have to flow through pipes owned by those who would feel the pain if Apple's replacement took meaningful hold, so we should not pretend that our broadband rates for "heavy users" would not go up. They most certainly would go up. And if so, to whom do you turn for a better broadband price? If you are like most people, you have ONE choice for broadband. If you happen to have 2, I bet the alternative is also in the cable subscription business too. If not, I bet they'll soon be bought up by their bigger competitor in your area.

Alternatively, you can think about kicking out the evil cable/satt middlemen only to replace them with Apple as the new middleman. Unless we can assume the cable/satt players pocket more than Apple would demand (30% or up to 50% of all ad revenue is no small share), that's a wash in terms of cost to us consumers.

So, then you got content creators which have to get a certain amount to keep a show going. You got Apple as our new middleman who requires a flat percentage right off of the top. You got broadband tollmasters who have no interest in losing their cable revenues to Apple when Apple must flow their solution through the tollmasters pipes. And you got us consumers. Who is going to lose here?

If the creators lose too much, they quit creating (can't afford the good talent that yields the good shows). Apple will not lose because they position themselves that way. The tollmasters will not lose because they have a monopoly/duopoly on broadband in most areas. Who loses?
 
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The Worst Thing about TV

The biggest hurdle to movies and TV moving to the digital platform is the fact that movies and then especially TV was such a "license to print money" for 40 years at least. They don't see any reason to distribute with Apple, or via the Internet.

That's the way to lose everything slowly, and then all of a sudden. Remember CDs?
 
Frankly, the answer is to get rid of free, OTA TV. Free TV was mandated how many decades ago, and that is what created the scummy, advertising-based system in the first place. (and I say this as someone using OTA as my main source of TV) But that is even less likely to happen. More likely is we'll see a gradual decline that will lead to more networks going under and merging with others or with providers (NBC, anyone?). And then we'll start to see more major internet-only content come out (content, not providers, there are already providers like Netflix), and industry change from there. This industry is not the same as the music industry, as discussed above, but it will have to change eventually.


There's so much wrong with the statement above that I wouldn't even know here to begin...

But please keep in mind that not everyone in the US - let alone world - is serviced by cable or the internet. Thanks.
 
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