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In the last couple of years apple has been dropping the ball pretty bad. On the new Macbook pro retina ghosting on the screen? and yes I will bring it up again " the reception issue" because their defense is get a bumper or don't hold it that way doesn't work. That means its a defect. What about purple haze on the new iphone 5.
These issues have always existed, with or without Steve. Every year there's some new Apple product that scuffs easily, or overheats easily, or cracks, or has display issues, etc. There are 3 points I'd like to make about that.

1) Apple likes to bring radical redesigns to the market, with unusual solutions, unusual choices of materials and so on. The upside of this is that you get cool stuff with a high wow factor, and occassionally a really smart solution that sets a new standard or raises a bar. The downside is that it's largely untested outside Apple's top secret labs. You can't have it both ways... either you go along for the crazy ride on the cutting edge and accept the occasional glitch, or you stick with a conservative brand that uses boring but tried and true tech.

2) The perfectionism that comes from guys like Jony Ive and Steve really trickles down and rubs off on the user base that practically worships the products as false idols. As a result they demand a higher level of perfection from Apple and take the product back to the store 10 times until they get a flawless one, whereas with something like a plastic Dell desktop there'd have to be bullet holes through it before they bother.

3) Issues that sometimes only affect a fraction of the user base get blown up to insane proportions and it gets labelled a "-gate". Mostly because of a dormant underlying desire to bring Apple down to earth, people are itching to pounce on those smug smartasses with their perfect stuff and cry "Ha-ha!!", Nelson Muntz style.
 
Since you brought it up I've been in the Automotive business over 30+ yrs however I don't think that means ****, if you don't like Apple why are you here and do own any Apple Products? And to Answer your question I think Honda probably has the least amount of Warranty issues, but that is just a hunch. I've been in the collision side. The stats I speak of service Bulitains we get in our estimating software.
You made my point about Toyota, it was over blown ******** because a few people had some issues with a floor mats and look what it did. No company can controll quality when human error is a part of it and Apple does a great Job!
Just curious what kind of shop do you work on cars that does warranty work for Honda, Toyota and Mercede's? I don't take my iPhone to Motorola for a warranty issue? What in your 18yrs have you done in the Automotive Business that you would do warranty work on three different Manufactures to have the stats that you are giving?


You know in our line of work we know practically everyone in every shop and dealership where you get parts from. Sure those high end cars have issues but not as many issues as the cheaper cars do.

Now back tithe topic at hand. Like I said EARLIER, apple makes good products but they are not high quality as of late.


James
 
Exactly

These issues have always existed, with or without Steve. Every year there's some new Apple product that scuffs easily, or overheats easily, or cracks, or has display issues, etc. There are 3 points I'd like to make about that.

1) Apple likes to bring radical redesigns to the market, with unusual solutions, unusual choices of materials and so on. The upside of this is that you get cool stuff with a high wow factor, and occassionally a really smart solution that sets a new standard or raises a bar. The downside is that it's largely untested outside Apple's top secret labs. You can't have it both ways... either you go along for the crazy ride on the cutting edge and accept the occasional glitch, or you stick with a conservative brand that uses boring but tried and true tech.

2) The perfectionism that comes from guys like Jony Ive and Steve really trickles down and rubs off on the user base that practically worships the products as false idols. As a result they demand a higher level of perfection from Apple and take the product back to the store 10 times until they get a flawless one, whereas with something like a plastic Dell desktop there'd have to be bullet holes through it before they bother.

3) Issues that sometimes only affect a fraction of the user base get blown up to insane proportions and it gets labelled a "-gate". Mostly because of a dormant underlying desire to bring Apple down to earth, people are itching to pounce on those smug smartasses with their perfect stuff and cry "Ha-ha!!", Nelson Muntz style.

This is so on point, I wish I could have said it as ELEGANT as you've done here!
Apple has a target on its back and every little glitch Apple has everyone that wants to see them go down, they blow everything way out of proportion and as you said they want to pounce on Apple!
Why when all these other company's have a glitch no one hears about it!
Because perfection is not expected from Samsung or Google etc. The problems I see people have with Android OS phones makes Apples glitch's look like nothing!
Your points are so well put, I might use them in another thread sometime!
Great Job!:apple::cool::D
 
You know in our line of work we know practically everyone in every shop and dealership where you get parts from. Sure those high end cars have issues but not as many issues as the cheaper cars do.

Now back tithe topic at hand. Like I said EARLIER, apple makes good products but they are not high quality as of late.


James

You keep missing the point, you are absolutely right, so compare Apple to Nokia or Motorola? Then you understand if you want to use car manufactures as an example, then compare Mercedes to BMW or Lexus and see who has the least issues and how that company handles the warranty issues! When I've taken my Lexus in for warranty work they treat you like a king, give you a loner car etc!
When I've taken my Ford in the treatment is nothing of the same!
Again your comparisons are not at all the same, I myself really don't know who you can compare Apple to, they are so unique and so far above everyone in R&D, that's why everyone is chasing them and still trying to design the way they do but fail miserably! But if Apple has a Glitch OH MY, and they don't even get the luxury of time to correct it before the hounds & the Media have blown it so out of proportion it's almost funny!

Read the three points from the comments just above on this page by I think the name "Anuba" or something close to that, he said it best!
 
Apple has a target on its back and every little glitch Apple has everyone that wants to see them go down, they blow everything way out of proportion and as you said they want to pounce on Apple!

The publicity gets blown out of proportion whether it's bad OR good.

Apple loves and, frankly depends on, getting free positive publicity.

When the publicity is negative, it's going to make just as big a splash.

It's as simple as the fact that being in the spotlight is a sword that cuts both ways, whether you're a movie star or a corporation.

Reporters aren't "out to get Apple". They're out to get readers.
 
Actually, I'd be willing to consider the iPad a PC as well. I know when I started posting here I talked about how tablets suited for much of anything except media consumption. I didn't think it was the best form factor for "real" work.

I've been forced to eat my own words since I picked one up for myself. I use my iPad for everything I expected I'd do with a netbook. Creating documents, note taking, planning, drawing, watching movies, playing games, it does everything a little PC should do. It's a slick, handy little machine.

And to really drive the point home on how badly I'm reversing my original opinion...I'm pretty much retroactively agreeing with some of the things LTD said about the iPad. LTD. Of all people. That's...that's...yeah...it's weird.
Actually, I'd be willing to consider the iPad a PC as well. I know when I started posting here I talked about how tablets suited for much of anything except media consumption. I didn't think it was the best form factor for "real" work.

I've been forced to eat my own words since I picked one up for myself. I use my iPad for everything I expected I'd do with a netbook. Creating documents, note taking, planning, drawing, watching movies, playing games, it does everything a little PC should do. It's a slick, handy little machine.

And to really drive the point home on how badly I'm reversing my original opinion...I'm pretty much retroactively agreeing with some of the things LTD said about the iPad. LTD. Of all people. That's...that's...yeah...it's weird.

Late response; i dont think the deciding factor is whether or not you can do real work on the device or not. I can do real work on a calculator, or even an abacus. The PC stands for something. The tablet, or rather - the post-pc tablet - stands for something else; in particular, the not-PC. These are not even my words. These are, in a sense, the words of Jobs himself (e.g., Jobs at ATD'07).

As exhibit B, look at Surface vs. Surface Pro. Same form, different products. On a non-PC, PC-scale, the Surface is undoubtedly left of the Pro. Not because you cannot work on both. Not because they both are not personal computers (they are very much personal, and very much computers). But because the PC-as-concept is (currently) something else than just a personal computer.

Exhibit C is the already presented. If the iPad is a personal computer, why is that not true for the iPhone? The iPod? Et cetera. Clearly, we do draw a line. And the line is clearly not what is manifest within the term PC (a device being a) personal b) a computer).

While it wasn't my original point, I will hold that the iPad is not a PC (rather, it is a not-PC, which in part explains its success). Or perhaps, PC is not iPad, after all concepts change over time. Indeed, with time, things might very well change. After all, concepts are not out there to be discovered, but constructed through our interaction with the world.
 
Late response; i dont think the deciding factor is whether or not you can do real work on the device or not. I can do real work on a calculator, or even an abacus.

You have to admit, doing work on an iPad is a far more similar experience to a PC than a calculator or an abacus.

A calculator and an abacus are only good at doing one thing. The iPad, much like a PC, can do a vast number of things, provided it has the processing power and applications capable of doing it.

Think of it like this. Say Adobe were to release a full featured version of Photoshop CS6 for the iPad tomorrow. Besides different input methods, would it somehow be any different than running it on a PC?

The PC stands for something. The tablet, or rather - the post-pc tablet - stands for something else; in particular, the not-PC. These are not even my words. These are, in a sense, the words of Jobs himself (e.g., Jobs at ATD'07).

I never take anything Job said at face value. He's a salesman first and foremost, trying to sell everyone on the idea that the tablet is TEH FUTUR Apple has given us, and somehow completely different what we had before. The Post-PC phrase was nothing more than an earworm to get people talking and evangelizing this new thing Apple was selling.

But at the end of the day, the iPad isn't post-PC because it's still very much a PC. A streamlined, not quite as powerful PC, but still a PC nonetheless. Eventually capable of doing the same things we do on laptops and desktops in a new, fancy easy to use form factor.

...eventually being the key word here. We're not quite there yet, but it's getting closer.

As exhibit B, look at Surface vs. Surface Pro. Same form, different products. On a non-PC, PC-scale, the Surface is undoubtedly left of the Pro. Not because you cannot work on both. Not because they both are not personal computers (they are very much personal, and very much computers). But because the PC-as-concept is (currently) something else than just a personal computer.

I consider the Surface the cheaper, less powerful consumer tablet to the Pro's high end professional tablet. In look an execution, both of them are roughly the same. The Pro is just capable of doing more due to having access to higher end apps, and the power of the hardware behind it.

Exhibit C is the already presented. If the iPad is a personal computer, why is that not true for the iPhone? The iPod? Et cetera. Clearly, we do draw a line. And the line is clearly not what is manifest within the term PC (a device being a) personal b) a computer)

While it wasn't my original point, I will hold that the iPad is not a PC (rather, it is a not-PC, which in part explains its success). Or perhaps, PC is not iPad, after all concepts change over time. Indeed, with time, things might very well change. After all, concepts are not out there to be discovered, but constructed through our interaction with the world.

I think we're disagreeing on an issue of semantics more than anything. From what you're saying, I believe you think of the PC/not-PC as a difference in form factor specifically, where as I'm think of it in terms of capabilities. Like to you, an iPad isn't quite a PC because it's not a laptop. To me, it's a PC because it can do spreadsheets and photo editing comfortably.

In other words, an iPhone or iPod isn't a PC to me, where as iPad is more of one due to it's size making it better able to do PC-like tasks. For instance, I sure as hell wouldn't want to type out a document on my iPhone. Yeah, it has the ability, but it'd kinda suck doing it, and take about forever and a day. The iPad? Considerably easier. Even though they both sport roughly the same hardware, the iPad is more a getting-work-done machine than the iPhone simply due to the larger size.

Sure, tablets aren't as "PC" as traditional computers, but there isn't a huge gulf separating the two. Over time, that gulf will get smaller and smaller, until the iPad and Android tablets are just as capable as your average laptop, and the only difference being form factor and input method.

I guess really, if we are in the Post-PC era, that doesn't mean we've left traditional PCs behind, so much as blurred the line as to what a PC actually is. Capability should be all that matters.
 
A reminder of what "post PC" meant

When Jobs spoke about "post PC", he didn't mean they were going away. On the contrary, they would still be necessary to create most content.

He was comparing computer ownership with the post-truck era in the first half of the 1900s. As people moved off the farms into towns, there was less need for hauling goods, so people could instead buy vehicles more oriented towards city living.

In other words, PCs are farm trucks that supply goods to everyone, and tablets are little sports cars. So he was saying that we've entered a post-PC (post-truck) era where most people don't need all the haulng ability of a desktop.

One problem with taking that comparison literally, of course, is that trucks and multi-purpose vehicles still reign supreme as best sellers over sports cars.
 
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