OK if you are happy being tied down by USB-C necessitating the obligatory Port Hub to make it anywhere near useful.
OK if you are happy with an inferior touchbar rather than a logically laid out keyboard.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Steve Jobs Introduced the MacBook Air Exactly 10 Years Ago Today
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
OK if you are happy with an inferior touchbar rather than a logically laid out keyboard.
I disagree that it's "very, very Apple" -- at least not the Apple (Computers) it once was. It's very, very iToy now. Here's how Apple (once was "Computers") can be heroes to most everyone...
Keep the "Air" line where they can obsess about thinness.
Make the "MacBook" line where gimmicky stuff and limited connectivity live, where coffee shop bloggers can show off its pretty colors as sophisticates.
But make the "Pro" line actually pro. That means lots of connectivity, lots of options, user serviceability and upgradeability combined with the latest technology, where thinness doesn't matter. The most recent "Pro" machine is almost none of that. It's a joke, and I'm not buying.
I'm giving Apple (once was Computers) this year to get their "Pro" line fixed. If they don't, I'm jumping the iToy... I mean Apple ship.
I additionally feel very strongly about Apple’s choice of aesthetics in their current iToys — Up until Yosemite’s Fisher Price my first computer UI, I was all about justifying Apple’s expensive hardware due to the function and experience provided. As my MBA ages towards need for replacement and as Apple’s hardware and software experiences seem to keep going in directions farther away from what works for me, I’m very, very close to moving back to Microsoft because of the price tag benefits and additional flexibility of hardware options. If I’m going to put up with headaches and disappointment for the first time since leaving pc’s in 2006, why not pocket $1000 difference every five years?
...from justifying Apple’s high price tag because of the attractive hardware & software experience, back to justifying the pc experience because of its attractively low price tag...
I can’t be alone in being so close to defecting. Shouldn’t at least one Apple product planning and marketing guru be thinking about this potential for mass switchover as they keep playing around and prioritizing all the fashion-first/thin-is-in stuff?
Some here have repeatedly opined that Apple is concerned only with making computers they think that people want. But shouldn’t they be concerned about making computers people want to buy?
Last edited:
Since this is a thread about the original MacBook Air, go back and have a look at the specs of that first MBA. It had one USB port and people hated that so you know what they did? They found a way to add usable ports. That's why all these years later 1) they're still selling the machine and 2) people are still sitting here posting about how much they want something like it with the current MacBook line. Hint: the people you see posting here about that also buy computers. People want light and thin, but not when convenient, useful features are lost.
User serviceability and upgradability are not likely to come back. LPDDR3 memory must be soldered, it’s not available socketed. (LPDDR4 next year allowing >16GB will be the same.) The mobile CPUs are also unavailable in socketed form and are surface mounted directly to the circuit board. So you’re left with battery and storage.
Storage could be socketed but reliability is increased by soldering the SSD chips directly to the motherboard’s PCIe bus and the board can be more compact. But they could go to a socketed format. Battery is replaceable.
There is more connectivity than ever with 2 or 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports, and they’re easily adapted to many different ports including USB 2/3, Ethernet, FireWire, Display Port, DVI, VGA, Lightning etc. with either a simple cable or a small adapter (“dongle” if you prefer). If a dock is used, many of these ports are available at the same time, and the laptop can be moved between home and work easily with a single cable. This is the latest technology, which you say you want in a Pro.
These new MBP work well for the 10+ million a year that buy them, and yes there are a few dozen or hundred that complain about them here and/or Reddit, and I’m sure thousands echo their complaints whether it’s about lack of native older ports or the keyboard or whatever.
Despite your opinion, the machines are very powerful, they have a ton of connectivity options and many who have them love them. They’re not a joke to those who use them daily at work, home, on the go and while traveling. But if I were as unhappy with MBP as you, I certainly wouldn’t buy them either!
With the sentiment in Apple fan camp that all objections are hate it might very well be that no warning bells are ringing inside the bunker.
Also, being able to sell tech and design that is 5-10 years old (macbook air and mac mini) might be interpreted (falsely) as a success, not a warning sign that their earlier fanbase is genuinely discontent with their new technology, design and operating system.
You’re the only one I’ve seen claiming all objections are hate, please correct me if I’m wrong.
The MBA was updated last year, if that’s what you mean by 5-10 year old tech. The design is old; people seem to like the design, but maybe there should there be change just for the sake of change.
The mini was last updated about three years ago, Cook has indicated a refresh is upcoming, but that it’s too soon to announce any details.
Apple can’t please everyone, but I’m sure they can do better. The iMac Pro that was just released has been generally well received; for the upcoming Mac Pro and Mac mini only time will tell. MBA might be discontinued if people ever stop buying it, but it is popular. MBP is selling well, but this is upsetting to some.
Yes, you are wrong as I did not claim such a thing at all. I talked about a sentiment, and you may want to read up on that word:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sentiment
Yes, that is what I mean with old tech and design. The internal design of the air has been unchanged at least since 2014, maybe even longer. Same bus speed, same memory architecture and so on. The 2017 update, just like the 2015 update, did not change the technology used or the internal design. They configured it slightly different, but the technology is still very old. Similar case for the mini.
No, Cook has only said that the mini remains an important product. Some people think that means a new design is coming, but his statement actually has no such promise.
If you were familiar with product lifecycle management and Hendersons growth-share matrix, you'd realise that mac mini probably is in 'cash-cow' status right now, a very important product stage where you spend absolutely no R&D money and very little marketing money and still earn a great revenue to fund other projects, while you let the cash-cow product slowly starve to death.
Nonsense. DEMAND drives serviceability and upgradability. If people are being sold non-upgradeable throw-away machines and they're buying cuz they're told throw-away is "AWESOME!", that's their problem. But the pro world isn't interested in throw away products. And we're about to jump ship.
Offering only Thunderbolt is not "more connectivity than ever", that's just the best speed available than ever, not "connectivity." The latter is the ability to connect. There have always been adapters and dongles, and I've rarely had to use them with my "ancient" (upgradeable) 2010 MBP -- that's "connectivity". Now it's nothing but dongles -- that's not connectivity.
Apple can make their defective throw-away machines for those "happy" 10+ million (who will also be "happy" to abandon Apple when they're eclipsed by the next tech fashion trend). I don't care. But if they're gonna continue to give the middle finger to their longtime base, then they can cry a river into their huge, empty flying saucer building when we're gone.
Powerful when you're working with a latte in one hand. And happy with them when you don't realize the sshhiitt sandwich you've been sold used to be made of Prime Rib. Indeed, I'm not much into **** sandwiches.
The “sentiment” that all objections are hate is your claim, but it seems to be a figment of your imagination. Many Apple fans have issues with Apple’s hardware and software, but still understand that Apple can’t make everybody happy. Apple doesn’t owe you your perfect Mac, no matter how entitled you think you are to your vision of perfection.
Cook didn’t say that the mini remains an important product. He said that it’s not yet time to share details, but Apple does plan for the Mac mini to be an important part of the product line in the future. You can choose to read that as, “we’re canceling Mac mini and we will never again update the product” if you wish, but that would be the exact opposite of the sentiment he expressed.
Your condescension aside, the MBA no doubt is a cash cow, and as the lowest-price laptop in Apple’s lineup, may actually sell more units than any other model. It is a great solution for those who buy it; is there no place in Apple’s lineup for a less expensive laptop? Some want an updated Air, with new internals and a retina screen, but that’s a $1,199-1,299 machine, not $999.
Last edited:
As technology becomes more integrated and circuit boards more dense, it’s increasingly less feasible to offer socketed parts. In the case of CPUs and LPDDR3 RAM, they are simply not available. The SSD drive could probably be socketed but soldering the SSD chips to the motherboard allows a smaller footprint, more flexibility in the layout and greater reliability. Like many engineering decisions, there are trade offs involved. The pro world doesn’t live in the past, and we understand the technological advances that necessitate change.
You’ve confused the presence of a native port with connectivity. You said connectivity is the ability to connect—and you’re right. Thunderbolt 3 lets you connect a wide variety of peripherals without requiring a multitude of different ports on the laptop. USB 2/3, Ethernet, FireWire, Display Port, DVI, VGA, Lightning, eGPU, 5K monitors, external PCIe cards—TB3 allows connectivity for all these devices, something that’s not possible with your 2010 MBP.
Macs aren’t purchased for fashion, they’re purchased by users who use them to do their work. They sell about 18-20 million a year, and Apple has a very high rate of customer satisfaction. Apple knows they can’t please everyone; you are one of those who aren’t pleased. But you don’t speak for all pros, nor all longtime customers.
Sure MBP are powerful on the go at a coffee shop. They’re also powerful at the office when connected to a SAN with a 40Gbps Ethernet connection, an eGPU or a 120TB/12 drive hot swappable array supporting RAID 0/1/5/6/10/50/60.
And with one cable, supreme connectivity: a dock with another 13 ports: 5 x USB3.1 Gen 1 (5 Gbps) ports, 2 x TB3 ports for TB3 pass through or 4K monitor support, Mini DisplayPort, Gb Ethernet, SD card reader, FireWire800, analog audio in/out, S/PDIF digital audio out.
Many Pro buyers love these machines; yeah they’re not perfect but nothing ever is. Technical and marketing trade offs are made, but these machines are beasts. I’m sure Apple can improve them, including the keyboard. But if they don’t meet your needs, you certainly shouldn’t buy one.
Last edited:
Less feasible for whom? Oh right, the ones who think it's important to shave a 1/2mm from its thickness. For the rest, it's not "feasible" for a "pro" machine to have everything permanently socketed.
The pro world lives and works in the present, and to the extent that huge investment in "old" -- but still very capable -- technology has been made, indeed does connect in the past. A company that is tries to push a particular technology as an "advancement" to the exclusion of everything else (*cough* 2016 MB "Pro" *cough*) is just arrogance. Completely wrong "pro" philosophy.
Sorry, unless it's Thunderbolt to Thunderbolt, it still can't connect. You need an adapter -- and LOTS of them.
What you're talking about is just better connection speed, that's all. And that's lovely. Just don't ditch everything for them, because that's stupid.
Dongles are still almost completely unnecessary for the 2010 MBP, still today.
^ That one made me "LOL" for real! ^ Been to a hipster coffee shop in the last few years?
I never claimed to speak for all, just a significant number of them. And we're saying the same thing: WE AIN'T BUYING. And APPLE IS LOSING ITS LONGTIME LOYAL BASE. If Apple doesn't care, then I'll happily give them the finger back and move on to better machines without looking back.
Wow, that sure sounds impressive... until you realize it doesn't even have an Ethernet port. Got yer dongle briefcase handy??
Where'd you get that dock? From your dongle briefcase?
It's not about perfection, it's about design philosophy. Apple used to get it. Now they don't. If they don't start getting it again really, really soon, they're gonna pay a hefty price and then wonder what happened.
I understand how upsetting it is when a company doesn’t do what you want them to. Maybe when Apple updates the MBP later this year it will more suitable to your needs.
Sympathy is all I have to offer, since I don’t control the feature set of Apple laptops.
If you’re open to using Linux or Windows, there are a lot more manufacturers and available models to choose from, so a better chance of finding something that will please you.