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Steve Jobs Offers Explanation About iPhone SDK Changes Restricting Adobe and Other Cross Compilers

lilo777 said:
Apple has one of the crappiest software development tools in the industry. Nobody ever use them unless they have to. And now you are suggesting to make the tools even more difficult to use (to weed out all the developers once and for all).
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That is a matter of opinion, an IDE is an IDE and can be changed si its a moot point.

I personally hate Eclipse and prefer XCode over it. I like netbeans most of all. :p
 
Kesuke said:
Thats just apple fandom there. I'm not going to get into the jingoistic 'my computer tis of thee' Windows v's OSX debate.
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Finally... there are other (questionable) options available if your really can't afford $600 for a Mac - google around for OS X installs and I'm sure you'll stumble upon them... and as for development happening 'only on macs'... Where were all the cries from the windows developers when Macs got VBA taken away from us (with next to zero notice) OR when Microsoft held back Access from Mac users? or what about Palm development tools? I could go on all day but I'll stop...

But it certainly seems its 'okay' to do sometimes eh?
 
Kesuke said:
I've got no arguments there. Its one thing to pay for new software that has taken time and energy to develop. But Adobe are milking their gravy train for all its worth. Having used photoshop since v3 I can honestly say remarkably little has changed for what is essentially a ~£300 purchase every couple of years, i hate to think what that money has paid for because it isn't product development thats for sure.
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Exactly. Adobe is upset because Apple wants to lock developers into their toolset at the exclusion of Adobe doing essentially the same exact thing. The irony is that Adobe's toolset costs big $ while Apple's is free.
 
lilo777 said:
Well, it's easy to explain. If you have to develop the game from scratch using C/C++ (remember no so called "undocumented API" i.e. no game engines is allowed) it'll take you a few years to do so. Apparently that's what Apple wants. Your best chance for getting good games on a phone is to switch to Android.
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There's nothing stopping you from using third-party engines/libraries, provided they are coded in native C/C++/Obj-C and don't use undocumented APIs.

In other words, libraries created specifically for the iPhone are OK. Libraries that have been shoehorned onto there using some sort of compatibility layer aren't.
 
Thanks Mr. Jobs for keeping the standards high and for the awesome 4.0 update. No one but Apple really knows what is best for Apple. Sometimes excellence involves having to courage to make tough and unpopular decisions.
 
lilo777 said:
Well, it's easy to explain. If you have to develop the game from scratch using C/C++ (remember no so called "undocumented API" i.e. no game engines is allowed) it'll take you a few years to do so. Apparently that's what Apple wants. Your best chance for getting good games on a phone is to switch to Android.
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Are you kidding me? Game Engines such as Cocos2d with box2d or chipmunk are completely allowed as some game engines are natively written in C/C++. Some developers even go as far as to create their own custom game engines. Show me how some of these engines use "undocumented apis". In terms of the Unity game engine, it seems like this will be totally fine as it creates a Xcode project, being source to source. Oh and about android, it is a mess of a market, look at the potential amount of money to be made on the iPhone compared to andriod, and it only recently got the ability to access the hardware natively.
 
dagamer34 said:
You seem to think this affects only Adobe, which shows how little you know. =/

And Slepak said it best, "Crappy apps come from crappy developers" and not crappy tools.
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Crappy tools facilitate the existence of crappy developers.

Flash is a shining example of that. Now imagine adding another layer in between the crappy flash developer, crappy flash, and the iPhone.

I am old school in thinking that programmers need to know how to program and not just drag widgets around.
 
Everybody should start with C

I think all developers should just base as much of their development as possible in C and then build their platform native applications on top of cross-platform C libraries.
 
dernhelm said:
Exactly. Adobe is upset because Apple wants to lock developers into their toolset at the exclusion of Adobe doing essentially the same exact thing. The irony is that Adobe's toolset costs big $ while Apple's is free.
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I couldn't agree more. I've used PhotoShop for more than 10 years, nothing major really changed, few minor upgrades. Yet the cost is out of this world. Every couple of years a new number and they want another $1,500, are they kidding. And some of you guys are mad at Apple? Why, because they like to move forward and dump stuff that don't work or needed anymore. Remember the floppy?

I'm tied of the newbie who use the mac now and demand this and that... if you don't like mac, go back to PC. We will be fine without you. Yes, I've been a mac user for more than 20 years.
 
DaveGee said:
Finally... there are other (questionable) options available if your really can't afford $600 for a Mac - [...] Where were all the cries from the windows developers when Macs got VBA taken away from us (with next to zero notice) OR when Microsoft held back Access from Mac users? or what about Palm development tools? I could go on all day but I'll stop...
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Again, my argument isn't a Window's v's Mac one. I have no issue with the price of apple products or the history of product availability for Macs and PCs.

My problem lies in the way apple seeks to tie developers into a restrictive environment, which is enshrined in an "our ball, our rules" sort of playground mentality.

I dislike it because it has the potential to backfire hugely on apple and hurt their products. If the milk turns sour for some reason and developers are driven to another platform like android then there is even less incentive for them to stick it out on the prison of a platform that is iPhone OS.
 
I somehow can't picture Steve Jobs personally reading Daring Fireball...

I'm beginning to think the man behind sjobs@apple.com is none other than Gruber himself :D
 
lilo777 said:
I guess this explains the quality of this discussion. When investors start discussing software development techniques it does look weird.
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This is an Apple news rumors forum, not a software engineering forum.

If you want software development techniques, you have come to the wrong place, my friend. I will point out that I don't post to the ADC forums, nor do I participate on other engineering related forums.

:D
 
I hope Unity will be spared from all of this... or there's going to be an implosion over at the Unity HQ... and a lot of angry game developers...
 
Will do good said:
I couldn't agree more. I've used PhotoShop for more than 10 years, nothing major really changed, few minor upgrades. Yet the cost is out of this world. Every couple of years a new number and they want another $1,500, are they kidding. And some of you guys are mad at Apple? Why, because they like to move forward and dump stuff that don't work or needed anymore. Remember the floppy?

I'm tied of the newbie who use the mac now and demand this and that... if you don't like mac, go back to PC. We will be fine without you. Yes, I've been a mac user for more than 20 years.
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I leave my old laptop at my parents so I don't have to take a computer back everytime I visit. It has Photoshop 6 on it (upgraded from 5.5!), and I find that works fine for most stuff I need. The only major changes that have affected me since then are Wacom support and some time savers like folders within folders and vector based stuff like shapes.

A year or two ago I picked up Corel Painter IX.5 on a student license. I can't recommend it enough. Features like screen swivel and the paint mixer are genuinely innovative. Its more for drawing and less photo-editing orientated but it goes to show what £60 can achieve versus the extortionate £300-500 that is photoshop. I would guess adobe are propping up their top heavy buisness on the proceeds of photoshop.
 
lilo777 said:
I guess this explains the quality of this discussion. When investors start discussing software development techniques it does look weird.
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Then as a stockholder AND a dedicated user, I'm glad to see apple putting customer experience, consistency and reliability above the whims of developers.
Apple has given developers a gold mine and all we hear is bitch bitch bitch.
Developers are not the customers.
 
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