Steve Jobs on AT&T Service Improvements and Possibilities of Multiple U.S. Carriers

[gmcalpin]

I basically get zero bars of AT&T reception in my condo and it really doesn't matter which day of the week or what time of the day it is.
Believing that a large AT&T-to-Verizon exodus will vastly improve your iPhone performance is naive.

If you get zero bars from AT&T in your apartment, how bad does Verizon need to be to NOT "vastly improve" your iPhone's performance?

Sometimes straight talk is not the best answer with issues.

I disagree. Straight talk is always the best answer. I don't care if it makes me happy; I want the truth.

…And to cut anybody off before the obvious response: Yes, I can handle the truth.

Fact is, it was a stupid question.

 

[cvaldes]

I get great reception where I live. Never drop a call. full bars. Great 3G speed. The moment I step into the city of San Francisco, it's like I have a completely different phone. Unreliable connection, dropped/missed calls. Doesn't matter what part of the city I am at, it's very unreliable.

If you have a large concentration of iphone users in one location, the network is congested and we all get bad service. The same thing happens during a ball game.

If this large volume of users is split up into 2 or even 3 separate networks, service will improve.

And that ****** SF service is 24x7, right? It's a reception issue, not congestion. AT&T has already admitted that this was much to do with the problems.

Reception problems are relative to a specific area (i.e., where the cell towers are, what frequencies they transmit at).

 

[alexhasfun28]

Be careful of what you post. You're not defending a stance of logic and reason. There are people in the forum who pay attention to such details.

Likewise my friend. Everybody makes mistake, as you just did, right at that moment after this comment(which i believe you posted). As to conclude this reasonable argument, take a look to yourself at what I said, not what i ment to say. I said that "i wished", not that "it will never". Just like you posted,


"Be careful of what you post. You're not defending a stance of logic and reason. There are people in the forum who pay attention to such details."
-cvaldes

 

[cvaldes]

If you get zero bars from AT&T in your apartment, how bad does Verizon need to be to NOT "vastly improve" your iPhone's performance?

I have no idea how Verizon functions in my place. I get superb T-Mobile performance at home. I'm not interested in Verizon performance.

Oh yeah, since you're probably going to ask the question, I have a third-party SIM from Truphone; it roams on AT&T and T-Mobile. That's how I compare AT&T and T-Mobile signals. Not interested in a CDMA phone. I can't shove a SIM into my phone overseas.

 

[SandynJosh]

Q: Steve, we love our iPhones... but our concern is that we can't make a phone call on it. Is someone working on that?
A: Well, we're talking about it. You can bet we're doing everything we know how to do.
Q: Can we expect something soon?
A: I'm told that a lot of places are getting better (more reliable connections) certainly by the end of this summer.
Kara: And if they don't get better?
Steve: Then they won't.

I LOVE Steve's reply to Kara's stupid-assed question after Steve already said that the carrier is responsible for that side of the business arrangement.

 

[SandynJosh]

If you believe the above graphic -- a snippet of data allegedly from the recently reliable Flurry Analytics -- then at least a handful of non-AT&T phones are currently in play. The numbers show a polling of carriers a particular app is being tested on, and there's no denying that Verizon is most certainly on that list... albeit in small numbers.

The article went on to explain how Verizon showing up on the list could happen without Apple actually NOT testing a Verizon iPhone on campus.

I hope and wish that Apple is working with Verizon because they are the only carrier that blankets my work area exceptionally well, but this is not the smoking gun that proves a thing.

 

[SandynJosh]

Why would you or anyone wish another carrier to not get the iPhone? I don't get it. I could give two sh*ts about either carrier, but having a choice is good for everyone so you can get the phone of your choice on provider that gives you the best service.

Even for someone that may "love" AT&T and hate Verizon (not saying you), what if they move to an area where AT&T is horrid but Verizon is better? The ability to actually have the option is a positive... so please enlighten me.

I live in a strong Verizon/weak AT&T area and am hoping to see Verizon get the iPhone for that simple reason. Besides, how can Apple hope be the number one smart phone in a country where they are on a carrier that is smaller then the other three major carriers? Especially when their only carrier is running at full capacity at the moment?

 

[AllGaussian]

Steve was wrong. It's been noted here quite often that Verizon and Sprint each carry more data than ATT does.

As far as a Verizon phone goes, his "I can't comment on that" is far more encouraging than a flat out "Not gonna happen"

I tried to look at that report (from ABI) but it's not free. One thing was that it was from 2009. I know, not that long ago.

What bothered me was that I remembered a story from March '10 about AT&T's CEO saying they were at half of all wireless data. How could he say that to investors if it wasn't true? Could it have all changed in 3 months? Not according to the ABI report.

Anyhow, found this (unfortunately it's a blog but has a twist):
http://erictric.com/2010/04/13/veri...andled-more-data-than-att-in-2009/#more-24274

Looks like AT&T dispute the claim. Big surprise...

So, two CEOs and one blog vs. one research firm.

 

[SandynJosh]

Horrible responses. My contract with ATT is up and I'm headed to Sprint and an EVO. Good riddance iPhone without a quality turn by turn service and a carrier that can't maintain a call.

I hope you research your Sprint coverage better then you did your AT&T coverage. Your EVO won't make you any happier if Sprint also sucks in your area.

It's not the phone that determines your ultimate satisfaction, it's the coverage of your local providers.

 

[gstylez]

Then they won't? Wtf Steve?

Now that is an answer. You go Steve! Apple doesn't have complete control over AT&T. They can only push so much. So if AT&T doesn't listen then they will lose business. Apple makes money regardless. Apple already knows that to get new customers to buy iPhones they will need another carrier anyways.

 

[SandynJosh]

Steve was wrong. It's been noted here quite often that Verizon and Sprint each carry more data than ATT does.

I looked at the numbers ABI Research and the math seems to be questionable:

According to ABI Research, both Verizon Wireless and Sprint dealt with a whopping 63% of all the data generated by its customers in the United States.

reading the whole report it seems that ABI Research credits EACH company (Verizon Wireless and Sprint) with 63% of the market. That totals up to over 100%, leaving no room for AT&T or T-mobile.

If ABI Research were to say that Verizon Wireless and Sprint added up to 63% of the market, then their assertion that each are larger than AT&T falls apart.

One way of stating it doesn't make mathematical sense and the other way destroys their thesis.

 

[splashnader]

Steve was wrong. It's been noted here quite often that Verizon and Sprint each carry more data than ATT does.

As far as a Verizon phone goes, his "I can't comment on that" is far more encouraging than a flat out "Not gonna happen"

The problem is a lack of towers and Mobile Switching Centers. I once worked for Bellsouth, which was taken over by ATT. The problem's with ATT's network all started around the time of their merger with Bellsouth. ATT had taken on additional networks, i.e. additional customers. They tried to keep up in the beginning by reducing the clutter on their existing towers and adding more MSC (Mobile Switching Centers) which rerouted calls to different towers. This worked for a while, until the number of new customers the iphone brought to the company, made the process of switching towers in the middle of a phone call more risky. The number one reason why most phone calls are dropped is because of tower switching. When one tower gets overloaded, it immediately moves a certain number of calls to another tower, unfortunately for ATT, those other towers have become increasingly crowded as well, and if the new tower can't accommodate the transferred call, it gets dropped. ATT can't keep up because every time they get a couple of steps ahead, it's three steps back. The current growth has been a blessing and a curse. I hope they can get caught up by the end of next year, like they keep saying they will.

 

[Mackan]

So there might be advantages with having two carriers in the U.S? Wow, clearly Steve isn't really giving a **** about freedom for the customers. Not that it surprises me. How can it be good for people out there to only have one carrier to chose from?

 

[marksman]

So there might be advantages with having two carriers in the U.S? Wow, clearly Steve isn't really giving a **** about freedom for the customers. Not that it surprises me. How can it be good for people out there to only have one carrier to chose from?

Because exclusivity provides Apple leverage when dealing with a provider. Without such leverage, the iPhone would not likely exist as it is today.

People magically think adding Verizon is only a good thing, and that is not necessarily true. It turns the iPhone into another cell phone commodity chess piece to be used by the cell carriers in their war against each other. That ultimately does not benefit Apple in several ways.

 

[butterfly0fdoom]

Besides, how can Apple hope be the number one smart phone in a country where they are on a carrier that is smaller then the other three major carriers? Especially when their only carrier is running at full capacity at the moment?

Uh? AT&T smaller than the other 3 major carriers? Really? Are you sure about that?

 

[eastercat]

I take the "improvement by the end of the summer" remark to mean "new carriers by the end of the summer." Here's to hoping

OTOH, I take the comment to mean that AT&T is installing more towers in an effort to improve their service.

I think next iPhone gonna be sim unlocked from factory, otherwise -> epic fail (harder to fight google)

This might work in Europe and other continents. However, it's not a successful business model in America. It's going to stay locked.

Now check out this Engadget article from April,

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/12/is-this-proof-of-a-verizon-iphone/

If you read further, you'd see the update:

We've been in touch with Flurry who thinks the data is from Verizon DSL or FiOS subscribers using their iPhone at home over WiFi.

Not interested in a CDMA phone. I can't shove a SIM into my phone overseas.

+1 That's why I'm glad that Verizon turned down Apple. At least with GSM, I have the option of unlocking my phone and using it overseas.

 

[DaveGee]

Then they won't? Wtf Steve?

I'm the first to jump on a good ole fashion Steve dog-pile but come on ... the question wasn't even a question.

"Kara: And if they don't get better?"

How do you think he should have answered it...

"Well we'll MAKE 100% sure it WILL!" (a lie since he has zero control over AT&T.)

or maybe...

"Well golly gee Miss Kara we're gonna certainly do the best WE can and I hope youin likes da results"

or maybe...

"WELL IF THEY DON'T THEN I'LL PERSONALLY GO RAMBO ON AT&T!!"

The fact is the question was useless... which is pretty much what we got from her the last time... if I remember correctly. DEAD WEIGHT

 

[Michael CM1]

I wonder how many more questions from New Yorkers and San Franners Steve will take before he screams to these people that it ain't his fault. By this point, it's your own damn fault if you don't research this is one of those two cities. I've personally been having problems recently, but that's because I live on the edge of civilization and because, duh, AT&T has issues.

I hope Apple puts the iPhone on other carriers just to end yet another talking point that has been beaten to death. Then Steve can keep referring people to the carriers and not his phones.

On a small aside, you think for $70/month these carriers could fix such things quicker. If I were AT&T, I'd be throwing those MicroCell devices at customers in those cities. Sell 'em for $100 less to smartphone customers and conserve network bandwidth AND look like a good guy. Don't pull the BP America CEO's move of saying "I want my life back."

 

[*LTD*]

Then they won't? Wtf Steve?

It means he's confident enough in his product to say "take it or leave it."

Steve isn't your mom.

 

[btrav13]

Because exclusivity provides Apple leverage when dealing with a provider. Without such leverage, the iPhone would not likely exist as it is today.

People magically think adding Verizon is only a good thing, and that is not necessarily true. It turns the iPhone into another cell phone commodity chess piece to be used by the cell carriers in their war against each other. That ultimately does not benefit Apple in several ways.

I disagree with you here. ATT has just about all the iPhone customer's they're going to get. At this point in time, they're also losing them now as well (I'd venture to say most times due to ATT, not the iPhone itself). It's not just a blanket "gross adds machine" like it used to be.

If Apple was EVER in a position to leverage it's wants and desires, it's more so now than ever before. In 2006 they had NOTHING in the wireless market. Now they have become dominant...AND all the negative press is surrounding ATT, not Apple. Do you not think that Sprint or T-Mobile would let Apple handle this device in their own way, just like ATT did?

I don't understand this "lock yourself into 1/4 of the market" mentality some people on here have. It's flat out stupid. There are lots of people who live in spotty-to-no ATT service areas whom Apple literally can't serve due to another party...this is not the case with ANY of their other products. If they want to compete in this space, they're going to have to play ball like RIM and Google do.

Further...think about all the people using Android who've never touched an iPad and love their Android...what happens when Google releases a tablet? That's more free market share for Google because of the familiarity with the OS already.

 

[CubusX]

Really?

Steve sounds very sumg on this topic.

So if it doesn't get fixed and stays as poor as it is, you just have to deal with it?????

I think Google's statement is totally correct.

One Man, One Network.

I am loosing faith in Apple as each day progresses.

 

[alm99]

Steve sounds very sumg on this topic.

So if it doesn't get fixed and stays as poor as it is, you just have to deal with it?????

I think Google's statement is totally correct.

One Man, One Network.

I am loosing faith in Apple as each day progresses.

I probably read into his answers, but I think he was being coy and sending hints that the AT&T exclusivity is ending sometime this summer. Places will be getting better not because of AT&T, but because of the availability from other carriers.

Q: Can we expect something soon?
A: I'm told that a lot of places are getting better certainly by the end of this summer.
Kara: And if they don't get better?
Steve: Then they won't.

Why else would AT&T make all these iphone data plan changes cheaper to the general public, up the ETF fee, and finally give iPhone tethering?

Also, AT&T sending a "screw you" to Apple with changing the iPad plan. It's no longer the great deal it was.

 

[BillyBobBongo]

I think next iPhone gonna be sim unlocked from factory, otherwise -> epic fail (harder to fight google)

This might work in Europe...

I can only hope! I've been holding off getting an iPhone as it means I would have to go with T-Mobile here in the Netherlands. All I hear all day long at work is people talking about losing reception and what a poor service they recieve.

Seems like Apple has a habit of picking the worst networks to go into business with.

 

[asleep]

Steve Jobs quote regarding AT&T dropped calls and network upgrades

SJ taking questions @D8

- On iPhone dropped calls: "Credible people tell me that things get worse before they get better as the carriers switch things around to make improvements. If you believe that, things should get a lot better soon. Should be better by end of summer. We'll see."


Soooo ... how can I determine if AT&T is upgrading in Houston, when they start/started, and when the upgrade is completed???

Our service (data & call) is getting worse, and if the "upgrades" are completed I'm really considering waiting for the Verizon iPhone & jumping ship.

 

[Geckotek]

SJ taking questions @D8

- On iPhone dropped calls: "Credible people tell me that things get worse before they get better as the carriers switch things around to make improvements. If you believe that, things should get a lot better soon. Should be better by end of summer. We'll see."


Soooo ... how can I determine if AT&T is upgrading in Houston, when they start/started, and when the upgrade is completed???

Our service (data & call) is getting worse, and if the "upgrades" are completed I'm really considering waiting for the Verizon iPhone & jumping ship.

Ask an AT&T engineer working on the equipment would be the only way I can think of.