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Steve Jobs Phones Developer of Rejected iPad Application

parapup said:
As much as I adore the "public API hugging" - if the public APIs are not doing the job, resulting in people needing to use private ones just to get their app working - Apple should show some respect, fix the root cause - bug in public API - and then ask developers to remove the private API.
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For one thing, we don't know if there was an actual bug or not.

But supposing there is, Apple still can't let developers use private APIs. They aren't actually private if external developers are using them. When you let someone use a private API you're either stuck supporting it indefinitely or you're going to break existing software with a future release -- screwing your customers (which are also the developer's customers). Not acceptable in either case.
 
iSee said:
For one thing, we don't know if there was an actual bug or not.

But supposing there is, Apple still can't let developers use private APIs. They aren't actually private if external developers are using them. When you let someone use a private API you're either stuck supporting it indefinitely or you're going to break existing software with a future release -- screwing your customers (which are also the developer's customers). Not acceptable in either case.
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Yeah, it's not like we haven't gotten on just fine for decades with developers using unsupported APIs. :rolleyes:
 
Winni said:
Yeah, which is sort of interesting, because a) Apple reportedly uses those private API themselves and b) when Microsoft did it, they were sued to Kingdom Come.
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At the end of the day, when you put the cat to bed Apple has stated their terms on accepting software for their online store with regards to the API's. Uou ether like it or lump it.


Personally I would prefer a more open source type OS, like Linux, than a closed approach Apple takes, but from their point of view I understand why they do it.
It's quite amazing these online unix type developer communites, the way software is produced, term efforts etc...


Apple do it to retain control and ownership.

Does that stifle competition and in the end hurt consumers? Maybe a little.
 
Apple Calling People

Steve's secretary called me one time when I pointed out a glitch in Apple's MacBook Pro website over email. It was when the i5/i7 versions came out, and there was a button bug in the page.
 
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this looks like a GREAT app! as a Business concentrating in economics major, I want to get this so bad!
 
Peter.Howard said:
At the end of the day, when you put the cat to bed Apple has stated their terms on accepting software for their online store with regards to the API's. Uou ether like it or lump it.


Personally I would prefer a more open source type OS, like Linux, than a closed approach Apple takes, but from their point of view I understand why they do it.
It's quite amazing these online unix type developer communites, the way software is produced, term efforts etc...


Apple do it to retain control and ownership.

Does that stifle competition and in the end hurt consumers? Maybe a little.
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I would argue that it may hurt a few customers. But collectively, it only improves our experiences with their products. I cant speak for everyone, but one of my favorite things about Apple products is that they are "clean." Eveything just WORKS, and works beautifully. Apple products are consumer products- they may not be for your token techy nerd, but they are for everyone. And if I have to sacrifice a little freedom, just like I need to in order to fly...so be it.
 
SteveKnobs said:
I would argue that it may hurt a few customers. But collectively, it only improves our experiences with their products. I cant speak for everyone, but one of my favorite things about Apple products is that they are "clean." Eveything just WORKS, and works beautifully. Apple products are consumer products- they may not be for your token techy nerd, but they are for everyone. And if I have to sacrifice a little freedom, just like I need to in order to fly...so be it.
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The walled garden approach is not inherently bad if the garden is large enough, and few people feel the need to scale the walls. It just means that the walled garden isn't suitable for those few.

What would really suck is if the few "opened up" the walled garden in such a way as to take away the benefits from everyone and not give them tools or benefits to replace what was taken away. (And no, "you're too stupid to learn how to use your tools" isn't a sufficient justification for taking advantages away).
 
kdarling said:
The trouble with a CEO responding to something like this is that they usually don't know the topic.

Unlike someone like Gates, Jobs isn't a programmer. Never was.

If Jobs actually ever tried to develop iPhone / iPad apps, he might've had a quite different perspective. Or not.
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1) it's probably been a fair bit of time since bill gates kicked up a compiler in anger...
2) anyone who is around programmers for any real length of time develops a pretty impressive theoretical knowledge of programming concepts, jargon and problems... So much so that even other programmers can't tell they aren't programmers... I've met at least 2 people who've probably never programmer in their life but have a formidable theoretical knowledge of the subject... Steve may well be one of those guys... (maybe ;))


snberk103 said:
I wonder if the app is considered to be otherwise a shining example of what Apple would like to see, so that extra effort was made to keep the developer happy.
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Well said... I think this is the real truth of the matter...
 
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Winni said:
Yeah, which is sort of interesting, because a) Apple reportedly uses those private API themselves and b) when Microsoft did it, they were sued to Kingdom Come.
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Of course Apple uses those private APIs! They are theirs to use. They wrote the OS, they can use the APIs they write. These APIs are not developer-facing. They're private for a reason; only Apple can use them. Perhaps they're experimental in nature, perhaps they call functions that could have a negative effect on the user experience if used with abandon. Apple is allowed to use these APIs, but you aren't. This is the agreement. It's not interesting at all, in fact, because it's part of the agreement every developer should read before they pay the $99 to be an iOS Developer.

I don't recall a company ever being sued by using APIs they themselves wrote for their own use. It's like building a driveway beside your house with a no trespassing sign in front of it. You won't be sued if you use the driveway because it's your property.
 
Former Microsoft employee, says it all. Probably used to taking short cuts and using hacks instead of just trying to do it right once.

Steve schooled him. heh.
 
kdarling said:
The trouble with a CEO responding to something like this is that they usually don't know the topic.

Unlike someone like Gates, Jobs isn't a programmer. Never was.

If Jobs actually ever tried to develop iPhone / iPad apps, he might've had a quite different perspective. Or not.
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You are making several assumptions, many of which are just wrong.
 
mnb said:
+100

You don't see Michael Dell or Steve Ballmer doing that.
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Steve Ballmer famously danced for Developers - so cut him some slack as he clearly loves Developers. Who'd sweat for something they don't care about :)
 
Why do all these freaking people think they can just email Steve Jobs whenever they want?
 
brofkand said:
Of course Apple uses those private APIs! They are theirs to use. They wrote the OS, they can use the APIs they write. These APIs are not developer-facing. They're private for a reason; only Apple can use them. Perhaps they're experimental in nature, perhaps they call functions that could have a negative effect on the user experience if used with abandon. Apple is allowed to use these APIs, but you aren't. This is the agreement. It's not interesting at all, in fact, because it's part of the agreement every developer should read before they pay the $99 to be an iOS Developer.

I don't recall a company ever being sued by using APIs they themselves wrote for their own use. It's like building a driveway beside your house with a no trespassing sign in front of it. You won't be sued if you use the driveway because it's your property.
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It is not so much an issue of Apple having private APIs... it is the combination of Apple withholding APIs from developers AND not allowing them to go elsewhere for solutions.

Developers effectively have their hands tied by Apple. This stifles innovation and gives Apple an unfair advantage when they decide to move into the same market segment as an independent developer.
 
why do developers get mad when apps are denied because they did something they are told not to do. like use private api's?

apple has gone ahead and posted very specific details about the approval process (finally) there should no longer be stupidity issues like this.
 
mags631 said:
You are making several assumptions, many of which are just wrong.
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Could you possibly be any less specific in your post?

As Woz pointed out, Jobs never programmed in his life.

I do think it was nice of him to take the time to respond.

lucidmedia said:
It is not so much an issue of Apple having private APIs... it is the combination of Apple withholding APIs from developers AND not allowing them to go elsewhere for solutions.

Developers effectively have their hands tied by Apple. This stifles innovation and gives Apple an unfair advantage when they decide to move into the same market segment as an independent developer.
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Exactly. For example, iOS apps cleverly include a static image that the system puts up when the app is being launched, in order to make the user feel like their device is quicker than it is.

Some Apple apps snap a picture of the current screen just before they exit, and substitute that for the static image, so you think it has instantly restarted the next time.

When the SDK came out, Apple reserved that capability for themselves just so their apps would look faster than anyone's. I'm not sure if this has changed since then.

NeroAZ said:
why do developers get mad when apps are denied because they did something they are told not to do. like use private api's?
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In a case like this, he felt it was the only way to get around an Apple bug and prevent his app from getting bad reviews when he first starts selling.
 
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The app sucks but just because it is on macrumars it is now at the top 25paid apps. haha, so stupid. And the news is probably made up, too. :eek:
 
zonta said:
The app sucks but just because it is on macrumars it is now at the top 25paid apps. haha, so stupid. And the news is probably made up, too. :eek:
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WTF are you talking about? The app sucks? It looks great to me, just too complicated for you, judging by your grammar.
 
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