Steve Jobs Posts 'Thoughts on Flash' Open Letter

Discussion in ' News Discussion' started by Lordillingworth, Apr 29, 2010.

  1. Lordillingworth macrumors regular

    Nov 8, 2007
    Shropshire, UK
    ModNote: Let's please keep one thread on this topic, for discussion amongst iPhone, iPod, and iPad users as well as any other interested parties. Thanks. --mkrishnan

    Hello, I did a forum search and then had a look manually and I couldn't see this anywhere:

    Some interesting things brought up, interesting even if it is just because it's a statement from Steve Himself... apparently!

    I was just wandering what iPad owners thought about it, being in the UK I am still waiting for launch so I can't really chime in properly on the whole No Flash on iPad debate yet.
  2. Readover macrumors member

    Apr 16, 2010
    I haven't got an iPad either yet cuss I live in sweden. But, I really do hope flash dies and goes away asap. It's old and worthless and HTML 5 is the new standard.
  3. screensaver400 macrumors 6502a

    Jan 28, 2005
    Last time Steve did this, with his "Thoughts on Music," he eventually won. He made iTS DRM-free.

    Though he's technically already won--Flash is not and will not be on iP* devices--this may be the start of a turning point in public perception.
  4. nep61 macrumors 6502

    May 17, 2007
    Just read it, and submitted to MacRumours... you beat me to it....

    Steve certianly makes his point clear. Let's see what happens from here.
  5. jonnyb macrumors 65816

    Jan 21, 2005
    Rye/London, UK
    I was just coming here to see if anyone else had seen that.

    "New open standards created in the mobile era, such as HTML5, will win on mobile devices (and PCs too). Perhaps Adobe should focus more on creating great HTML5 tools for the future, and less on criticizing Apple for leaving the past behind"

  6. eawmp1 macrumors 601


    Feb 19, 2008
    A well thought-out open letter on Flash from Jobs. Better than the one-liners he usually spouts. Flash is dead, long live the king. ;)
  7. Bytor65 macrumors 6502a

    Feb 10, 2010
    Nice Summary of points often discussed here. Seems reasonable to me.

    Should sticky this and direct all Flash discussions to one thread instead of the ten different flash discussions that are usually going on.
  8. vincebio macrumors 6502a


    Jun 27, 2005
    major ouch adobe!@!

    id love to see the CEO of adobe's response to this one....:eek:
  9. Shawnstra macrumors regular

    Oct 12, 2008
  10. *LTD* macrumors G4


    Feb 5, 2009
    It's the way a winner talks. You can tell Apple has their ish together and has a pretty clear idea of what they want for the iPad and for consumers.
  11. maflynn Moderator


    Staff Member

    May 3, 2009

    It's a well thought out, very well cohesive document that clearly states apple's position and why. Too bad it took them this long to actually get this going, it probably would cause less angst, especially after Job's off the cuff remark about adobe being lazy.
  12. Lone Deranger macrumors 68000

    Lone Deranger

    Apr 23, 2006
    Tokyo, Japan
    Wow... them be fightin' words! :D
  13. JediZenMaster Suspended


    Mar 28, 2010
    Well put steve! He makes some great points :D It's going to be funny seeing the apple-haters blood pressure rise after they get wind of that letter
  14. blackNBUK macrumors 6502a

    Feb 19, 2010
    Good find!

    Most of the arguments have been discussed endlessly already so I don't think it really adds anything new to the debate. However it will be interesting to see the effect of Apple explicitly going on record.
  15. evanrousso macrumors 6502

    Aug 28, 2006
  16. -Ryan- macrumors 68000

    Jan 28, 2009
    Abobe in my opinion misread their ability to exert influence over Flash. I feel that they took the view that a device without Flash is unusable; rather from using my iPhone for years and my iPad in recent times it is clear that it is not necessary. This is a well thought out article --- death to Flash. It's had it's day. The only last real barrier to moving away from Flash altogether is the Mozilla position on H.264. Unfortunately I don't see them budging. :(
  17. rdowns macrumors Penryn


    Jul 11, 2003
    What is their position?
  18. rhett7660 macrumors G4


    Jan 9, 2008
    Sunny, Southern California
    The only thing I wish he would of added to the letter...... Since he was talking about Adobe, Apple and Desktop publishing, I wish he would of stated that is going to continue.... or something along those lines.

    Good read. I am waiting to see how Adobe takes on this.
  19. MacRumors macrumors bot


    Apr 12, 2001
    Steve Jobs Posts 'Thoughts on Flash' Open Letter



    Apple CEO Steve Jobs today posted a lengthy open letter offering his "Thoughts on Flash" in an attempt to clear up some of the controversy over Apple's relationship with Adobe and its unwillingness to incorporate Flash capabilities into its iPhone OS devices.
    Jobs then proceeds to lay out six aspects to Apple's argument against the use of Flash:

    - Openness: Flash is a proprietary product, making it a closed system. While Apple also offers proprietary products, it believes that all web standards should be open. Jobs points to Apple's support of open standards such HTML5, CSS and JavaScript, as well as its own contributions to open source projects such as WebKit.

    - "The Full Web": One of Adobe's arguments is that a lack of Flash compatibility prevents Apple mobile devices from accessing "the full web" because 75% of video in that format. Jobs counters that almost all of this video is available in more modern H.264 format and viewable on iPhone OS devices. He also points to the YouTube application and a list of other sources all offering video in iPhone-compatible formats. With respect to Flash-based games, Jobs concedes that the iPhone is unable to play them, but notes that there are over 50,000 game and entertainment titles on the App Store, many of which are free.

    - Reliability, Security, and Performance: Jobs points a Symantec study showing Flash having one of the worst security records last year and notes that Flash is the #1 reason Macs crash. While Apple has been working with Adobe to address these issues, the problems remain. Jobs also claims that Apple has yet to see Flash performing well on any mobile device, something it has repeatedly asked Adobe to demonstrate.

    - Battery Life: Long battery life essentially requires hardware decoding of formats such as H.264, but most Flash website continue to use older decoders that must run in software, crippling battery life for mobile devices.

    - Touch: Interactive Flash content is mouse-driven and not easily compatible with Apple's touch-driven iPhone OS. Jobs argues that developers who need to rewrite their Flash websites to support touch anyway should look to more modern technologies like those supported by Apple.

    - Flash as a Third-Party Development Tool: Jobs outlines Apple's arguments against allowing developers to create iPhone applications using Flash or other third-party development tools, citing sub-standard performance and a reliance on those third parties to adopt changes and improvements. Apple wants developers building directly on iPhone OS for the best experience possible.
    Jobs concludes by noting that Flash was developed during the era of PCs and mice, but today's low-power, touch-based mobile devices require new standards and technologies.
    Article Link: Steve Jobs Posts 'Thoughts on Flash' Open Letter
  20. lssmit02 macrumors 6502

    Mar 25, 2004
    As Jobs points out, Adobe has been deficient in bringing its products up to date on the OS X platform. If that's how Adobe treats its Mac products, imagine how bad it will be with iPhone OS.
  21. cmaier macrumors G4

    Jul 25, 2007
    Some interesting points. Surprised he did this, though.
  22. nightfly13 macrumors 6502a


    Jul 17, 2008
    Ranchi, India
    That kool aid was pretty tasty..

    Seems the Reality Distortion Field is fully operational once more, because I didn't see any gaping logical holes or counter arguments crying out to be made.

    I did sense a little bit of 'don't dumb down our apps to be the same on android' competition in his tone, but pretty easily justified by suggesting it's for the benefit of Apple, developers and consumers.

    I wonder what's the best way to hear an informed counter-argument. Might go back to slashdot after a 5 year break to see what the haters have to say :)
  23. iOrlando macrumors 68000

    Jul 20, 2008
  24. calb macrumors 6502

    Mar 12, 2009
    That's what I thought!
    Oh, you can see it over at Engadget.

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