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It sounded really quite extraordinary which makes me wonder why Linus didn't like it.
It's obvious that he foresaw the closed nature of it and seeing how OSX is starting to be even more closed than Windows he was very, very right.

He was a braver man for saying no, and he gets to be his own boss now and direct the future of Linux.

Anybody who says Linus should have stopped Linux development and gone with Apple is quite simply a supporter of monopoly and the hostage-taking of the minds of computer users everywhere. Linux is the last frontier and I'm glad we have that 3rd place to go to.
 
Linux works fine, much better than Windows. The only thing holding it back is the lack of developers releasing programs for it. Could be something to do with the different version, the same thing holding android back. I switched from Vista to Linux about four years ago, which ultimately brought me to the mac. It's the best of both worlds, the stability of Linux with the software of Windows. It's still a fun operating system to play with.

Its fun if you need to get your geek on but outside of the server room Linux has no place in business. Even Android is the weakest mobile OS as far as business goes.
 
It's a remarkable development, that's why I'm so curious as to why he wouldn't like it.

You'll need even more history for that one. Look up the (extended) flame war between Andy Tannenbaun and Linus Torvalds. If you're into coding, OS-internals and stuff it's fun to read.

The discussion centers on monolithic versus message-passing micro kernels. Linux is the prime example for a monolithic OS. All the essentials of the OS in a big chunk of code. Minix, written by Tannenbaum is the other opponent. The kernel is made up of small pieces of code that run in their own litte universe, and communicate via a central process. Since that is the only part with full privileges that would be the microscopically small kernel, the rest can be (is) called userland.

Mach is, like Minix, a microkernel OS, which is why Linus doesn't like it. He prefers the simplicity of design and efficiency of a monolithic kernel over the complexity but privilege-separation that is the essence of a microkernel OS.
 
Uh, I never said anything like that. I wouldnt move anyone in my house to Linux because the software isnt there, especially in my case since I rely on the Adobe Creative Suite.

I'm talking about choices like configuring Mission Control after they botched it by removing essential Expose features. The ability to not be forced to use iTunes with an iPhone.

Yes - sorry! Had my wikuses and my winnis confused.:eek:
 
Oh, it seems we have a new uber-negative person in the forum. Good luck with Ubuntu.
Far from it, Wingi has been a moaner for many years. TBH, I'm not sure why he sticks around since he never seems to have anything positive to say. And you don't have to be a fanboi to not be negative all the time.
Anybody who says Linus should have stopped Linux development and gone with Apple is quite simply a supporter of monopoly and the hostage-taking of the minds of computer users everywhere. Linux is the last frontier and I'm glad we have that 3rd place to go to.
Linux's main use, other than being the web server platform of choice, is to keep the other two on their toes.
 
Not to mention he is one of the above.

He even admits it himself:

""I'm an egotistical bastard and I name all my projects after myself. First 'Linux', now 'git'""

Gee, my feeling toward you is kind of similar. :rolleyes:

Thank god Linus didn't take Steve's offer because Linux would have been the worse for the wear. It also proves Linus isn't some money grubbing greedmonger like Steve. I have 100x more respect for Linus than I'll ever have for the late Steve Jobs.

Steve Jobs was an ass, no question about it. But he wasn't "money grubbing greedmonger". His wealth came primarily from his ownership of Pixar (later Disney). He bought the company and pumped millions of his own money in to it. When they became uber-succesfull, the value of his ownership shot through the roof. And there's nothing wrong with that. Should he have ran Pixar to the ground, so the value of his shares would go down?

This story is really about, but does not address, the path not traveled. What would it have taken, to get him to say yes? A different kernel? A bigger salary? Continued open source of non core OS technologies?

I think he wants interesting technological problems to solve. That's why he joined Transmeta, even though he would have probably gotten higher-paying jobs elsewhere. He just thought that what Transmeta tried to do was crazy and interesting, and that's why he joined them.

At Apple he would have been working on things that didn't really interest him at all.

AAPL share price in 2000 averaged around $20. Price today ~$600.

Torvalds is not in it for the money. He already has all the money he needs, and he lives a comfortable but not extravagant lifestyle.
 
While I like and hate Linux all in the same breath, there are design elements between the two (OSX and Linux) that I'd like to see a few features brought over to OSX that many of us would like. Features with better functionality than Mission Control.
 
While I like and hate Linux all in the same breath, there are design elements between the two (OSX and Linux) that I'd like to see a few features brought over to OSX that many of us would like. Features with better functionality than Mission Control.

You're talking about the linux window managers, obviously. But that's not linux, they are different projects. And, to be honest, I've never seen a linux window manager without plenty of annoying problems. Either it is gnome, kde, unity, whatever. Actually, the graphic UI and the stability of the graphical environment is the top thing where linux is falling behind the other OSes.
 
I get the allure of the story, but I'm sure that not only did more than just Steve try to hire Linus, but I'm sure this kind of big-name-guy tries to hire other-big-name-guy happens a lot more than most would think.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows this happens all the time. It's called business.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_(kernel)

The Mach kernel is part of the underlying mechanics that makes OSX possible, for it's time it was incredibly advanced and Apple saw 20 to 30 years worth of development possibilities in it. It sounded really quite extraordinary which makes me wonder why Linus didn't like it.

http://www.macworld.com/article/1154036/osxorigins.html



It's a remarkable development, that's why I'm so curious as to why he wouldn't like it.

Then you can't have followed Linus' carreer very closely. It's quite obvious why he didn't like it. Look up Monolithic vs Micro kernels. Then search for "Linus and Tannenbaum usenet".

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Out of the box, I think OS X (Darwin) is a far better, stable, complete, secure and user friendly *NIX than any other OS.

You must not know many Unix kernels then. Darwin has the least enterprise type features, is probably not even close to as secure as other, more well audited kernels (*cough* OpenBSD *cough*) and there's nothing user friendly about Darwin itself.

As for complete... hum... depends what you're trying to accomplish really.

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It's obvious that he foresaw the closed nature of it and seeing how OSX is starting to be even more closed than Windows he was very, very right.

Nope, that is not why he didn't like Darwin. Darwin is open source anyhow, same as the Linux kernel. Also, Linus Torvalds actually blesses the idea of non-GPL kernel modules and permits it even though it is forbidden by the GPLv2 used for the Linux kernel.

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While I like and hate Linux all in the same breath, there are design elements between the two (OSX and Linux) that I'd like to see a few features brought over to OSX that many of us would like. Features with better functionality than Mission Control.

Don't confuse the Linux kernel with other open source projects that provide GUIs and features you are talking about. Linus does not really work in userspace, he works in Kernel space.

Linux is a kernel. Gnome/KDE/XFCE/others are GUIs that happens to run on top of X11 that happens to have an implementation that runs over the Linux kernel, but can also run on things like Solaris, OS X, HP-UX, AIX, BSD kernels or heck, even Windows.
 
Very interesting fact, never knew that discussion took place. Being a user of both platforms, got major respect for both of them. Can't help but wonder what would happen if he accepted the offer.
 
The last time anybody had to compile a Linux kernel was like ten years ago. You're really spreading last decade's news here.

But yes, Ubuntu IS getting there - and, sadly, OS X is losing it rapidly. It's apparent that OS X is nothing but an afterthought for Apple and that iOS is their future. And that won't be my future. I'm preparing to migrate the Macs in our house to Ubuntu.

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Exactly. It only took the Steve Jobs fan club eleven years to dig up that little gem and talk about it.

Whatever you are smoking i want it too.
 
It seems like Linux has 'nearly been ready' for almost 10 years now. I have played around with Red Hat as a desktop, but I don't think it will ever be ready for the mainstream computer user. IMO, the real value of Linux has been to simplify the setting up webservers and database servers (Apache and SQL) to the point that any semi-computer literate person can do it.

What if Linus had taken a job with Apple? I don't think he would have lasted very long, as he and Steve would not have seen eye to eye on a lot of things.
 
Probably because Apple is psychotic about having everything as closed as possible, the end user would have many limitations where as Linux gives the user as much freedom as possible.

Choice, is not in Apple's vocabulary. I have a feeling Steve Jobs must have gotten the hives if that word was ever used around him. Just look at all the proprietary bull***t there is with iOS.... forced use of itunes? No replaceable battery? Only one means of acquiring software? Closed OS with limited customization? I could go on.

Actually, you have a choice with apple... don't buy their products.
The things your mention aren't a problem for a lot of people, so if it doesn't work for you, you just don't buy any of it.
 
This sounds like generic geek pride to me. One thing Steve Jobs was not is a "money grubbing greedmonger." Tovalds is more like Steve Jobs than you will ever realize.

No, $7 BILLION rich with no known charitable donations and outsourcing US jobs to China while not lowering prices for the consume = definitely NOT a money grubbing greedmonger. :rolleyes:

We're not talking about financial security here. We're talking about enough money to own a small air-force to protect your own little island in the Bahamas. Company wise, we're talking about no dividends (until now after Steve is gone) and cash hoarding enough money to almost purchase Greece. Yeah, Jobs and Apple aren't greedy at all. :D

No, this doesn't prove anything. Where was money even discussed in that bit about the Apple offer? See, to "prove" this, wouldn't Steve have to had offered Linus like a billion dollars or something?

Yeah, you need to be offered like a "Billion" dollars to be considered a greedy person. :rolleyes:

Linus Torvalds started an open-source FREE operating system and people on here are trying to make him out to be the greedy one? Right. I'd like to know what is being smoked and where I can get some. ;)

Geeze, you'd think greedy people would be all like "Greed is good!" rather than try to prove there was no greed going on there. :confused:

Please don't take it personal. I've seen video of Linus and he just bugs me, that's it.

It's not like I know the guy on a personal level or anything. I just respect the idea of free information. I've done a LOT of work myself for free in return. So the idea of charging for the air to breathe if you can get away with it bugs me more than any personal idiosyncrasies. Obviously, some people have different values than me, which is why I mention the 'greed is good' mantra that I would have expected instead. It's simply not part of my belief system. Everyone wants to be comfortable, but if money was what was important to me, I would have become a lawyer. You can't take it with you, regardless. Steve made his family rich and a lot of shareholders rich. I'm sure they love him to death. But heck, even Bill Gates has shown some concern for others in this world that weren't so well off and perhaps never got a chance, being born where they were, etc. I never saw ANY indication Mr. Jobs gave a flying crap about anybody but himself or his immediate family.

Steve Jobs was an ass, no question about it. But he wasn't "money grubbing greedmonger". His wealth came primarily from his ownership of Pixar (later Disney). He bought the company and pumped millions of his own money in to it. When they became uber-succesfull, the value of his ownership shot through the roof. And there's nothing wrong with that. Should he have ran Pixar to the ground, so the value of his shares would go down?

My opinion of Steve Jobs has nothing to do with how he got his wealth initially, but what he did with it after he got it and how he ran Apple (moving jobs overseas and not so much as passing a small part of the profit savings onto the consumer (i.e. Macs didn't drop in price after moving production to China; you could argue that iOS devices would cost MORE if they were made over here, but as far as I can see my PowerMac cost less when it was made in the USA when it was made with relatively expensive PPC parts, whereas today's Macs using little more than off-the-shelf hardware for the most part and dirt cheap (by comparison to PPC) PC Clone tech costs a heck of a lot of dough by today's standards (the only expandable Mac STARTS at $2400? Holy Crap that's out of touch and it's in part due to the fact they don't cater to consumers, just their idea of what a consumer SHOULD want rather than what they DO want).

Then there's the charity thing (or rather the lack thereof and comments to the effect he's giving it all to his family). That spells greed to me, not "ass". I actually think the initial move to create a computer company in the garage was kind of cool and the fact they used money from an illegal phone blue box that much more ironic for their "sue 'em all" mentality in today's Apple.

Torvalds is not in it for the money. He already has all the money he needs, and he lives a comfortable but not extravagant lifestyle.

And that I can respect. I don't know if I'd want to hang out with the guy, but I haven't been talking about a popularity contest. For all I know, Jobs would have been far more fun to talk to; that doesn't mean I respected the guy ethically speaking.
 
Mach is, like Minix, a microkernel OS, which is why Linus doesn't like it. He prefers the simplicity of design and efficiency of a monolithic kernel over the complexity but privilege-separation that is the essence of a microkernel OS.
I thought that current implementations of Mach are actually hybrid kernels, which have capabilities of both microkernels and monolithic kernels. I think windows currently runs on a hybrid kernel as well.
 
I thought that current implementations of Mach are actually hybrid kernels, which have capabilities of both microkernels and monolithic kernels. I think windows currently runs on a hybrid kernel as well.

Hmmm... looks like Torvalds is not fond of hybrid kernels either.
 
I thought that current implementations of Mach are actually hybrid kernels, which have capabilities of both microkernels and monolithic kernels. I think windows currently runs on a hybrid kernel as well.

Mach is a pure microkernel OS. Darwin, the current kernel in OS-X, however, is a hybrid. I/O-kit and the BSD-based network-stack count as 'monolithic' parts in a otherwise microkernel architecture.
 
Yeah, who wouldn't want to go from 95% marketshare to 1%. :rolleyes:

This is, of course, why Android is by far the most popular mobile platform out there. It's also why OS X has a growing marketshare of at least 10% in the US! Right? Of course.. because using a unix-based architecture is a sure sign of failure.

It's unfortunate that OS X isn't being given credit for being a good operating system (where it's due), rather you guys only use it because it's good looking and the "apps". Yep. I mean, the 20+ years of R&D in OS X is nothing against a pile of trash "app" such as Instagram.
 
Then you can't have followed Linus' carreer very closely. It's quite obvious why he didn't like it. Look up Monolithic vs Micro kernels. Then search for "Linus and Tannenbaum usenet".

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No, not really. I've never found Linux to be all that compelling by itself. I think it's been effectively utilized by private companies to make something better, like OSX, but I've found the linux community to be overly optimistic and somewhat annoying in general.

Linus has his ideas but free isn't a good business model.

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It's obvious that he foresaw the closed nature of it and seeing how OSX is starting to be even more closed than Windows he was very, very right.

He was a braver man for saying no, and he gets to be his own boss now and direct the future of Linux.

Anybody who says Linus should have stopped Linux development and gone with Apple is quite simply a supporter of monopoly and the hostage-taking of the minds of computer users everywhere. Linux is the last frontier and I'm glad we have that 3rd place to go to.

I'd only be supportive of that if it made OSX better, I've never found linux to be all that compelling by itself. It seems to be a giant headache for most people who want to use it.

I think Apple has done well enough with OSX despite Linus not being there. It doesn't change the value of his contributions but I personally like the Apple environment, it's convenient for someone who isn't interested in having to know a great deal about the OS in order to effectively use it.
 
It's unfortunate that OS X isn't being given credit for being a good operating system (where it's due)

OS-X deserves some credit. But, I have to say, it's not very good at for instance I/O-intensive workloads. Most of the times when you see a spinning beachball OS-X is busy trying to balance I/O with GUI. You're saving a file and OS-X is also busy drawing an animated bar showing you how far it came saving this huge file. Most beach-balls are I/O-kit fighting with Quartz for CPU-cycles.

I do UNIX. *********s. (Pooploads, circumventing some censorbot..) Something like 1900 boxes in total. Some do gigabits per second of traffic, others do transactions totalling millions a day. I mix and match. Some of my customers get FreeBSD. Others get linux, a few even get windows. None get OS-X. In that sense OS-X is a failure.

But, my 'workstations', both at home and at work, are Mac's running OS-X. And on the road iOs is king. On iPad and iPhone.

OS-X deserves credit for being userfriendly and responsive as a host for a GUI. But, for that customer doing 6Gbit/s during half the day it would be useless. You'd have to pry my mini from my dead, cold hands, but I can't earn bread and butter without Linus' work. Or that of Theo de Raadt.
 
No, not really. I've never found Linux to be all that compelling by itself. I think it's been effectively utilized by private companies to make something better, like OSX, but I've found the linux community to be overly optimistic and somewhat annoying in general.

Linus has his ideas but free isn't a good business model.

OS X uses nothing from Linux so I don't know where that comment comes from.

Linus' ideas have never been about building a business out of Linux either, I don't know why you evaluate it as a business model.

Frankly, I think you're generally quite not fit to even be discussing on this topic.

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I'd only be supportive of that if it made OSX better, I've never found linux to be all that compelling by itself. It seems to be a giant headache for most people who want to use it.

Which people are you referring to ? Linux has been used in literally hundreds of devices and projects, ranging from Desktop OSes, networking equipment, storage appliances, mobile phones and television sets.

Seems to me it's not so much a giant headache to use at all as far as OS kernels go. Where has Darwin been used besides OS X ?

Or are you mistaking Linux, a OS kernel, with things like Ubuntu, RedHat Enterprise Linux and other such server/desktop OSes that happen to use Linux as a kernel ?

Again, you're showing your lack of knowledge on this topic.
 
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