Steve Jobs Wanted Original iPhone to Have No SIM Card Slot, Says Former iPod VP

[Pre86]

I would love for e-sim to be the future but it’s still too buggy to rely on. For the last few months T-Mobile subscribers using esim (myself included) lost access to iMessage and FaceTime using our phone numbers due to an unidentified issue that end users (not the techs at T-Mobile or Apple) figured out required removing and re-adding the e-sim (which required a second phone with a live connection as well as a technician who actually knew how to do this) or just going to a T-Mobile store and installing a physical sim.

 

[_Spinn_]

I can see Apple wanting to remove the SIM to safe space and make the iPhone more waterproof. The hard part is going to be getting all the carriers to go along with it and to make switch eSIMs as easy as physical ones.

 

[NYCValkyrie]

I would love for e-sim to be the future but it’s still too buggy to rely on. For the last few months T-Mobile subscribers using esim (myself included) lost access to iMessage and FaceTime using our phone numbers due to an unidentified issue that end users (not the techs at T-Mobile or Apple) figured out required removing and re-adding the e-sim (which required a second phone with a live connection as well as a technician who actually knew how to do this) or just going to a T-Mobile store and installing a physical sim.

When did that happen? I'm on TMO and haven't experienced it. I'm not discounting your experience but it's the first time I'm hearing about it.

 

[jlc1978]

It is illegal to have to be on the clock 24/7

That depends on the job and location, so it's not illegal all the time; and I said available, not on the clock.

You can take a phone with you, it is not the normal.

Depends on the definition of "normal," most people I know carry a phone and it's often tear only phone.

Being able to contact family while abroad can be useful, but that doesn’t mean you need to take your own phone with you.

I wager most people would not want to but a new phone when they travel vs. using their own.

You are right to say you can do these things and these things are important to some people. But most don’t need to and won’t so let’s not design phones for extreme use cases.

I owuld say carrying a phone abroad is not an extreme use case, international travelers are, IMHO, more likely to take their phone than not.

I don’t think you would fall into the majority. I have put here that the majority don’t take nor need to take their phone abroad with them so a physical sim tray you can swap out is missed on them. Even to this day I know more people that when they are abroad will buy a phone there on pay as you go via a local carrier rather than bring their own expensive phone.

Most I know use their own with a new SIM, YMMV.

A physical SIM card could also easily be replaced by something as primitive as a QR code you scan with the camera once the foil is scratched off.

If it makes it as easy as swapping SIMS, ie, no need to contact carrier, etc, then an eSIM would work. However the tech needs to be ubiquitous before that happens.

Designing a phone to have features that benefits very few users and for only some of the time doesn’t make a lot of sense.

I bet it benefits more than an eSIM does.

I travel internationally (or used to in the before times) often for both work and personal and this isn't in line with that I have observed in person or on any travel forums. Perhaps 20-30 years ago people needed to do this but certainly not since the dawn of the smart phone where there are literal maps on your phone.

I used to carry a separate cheap GSM phone for use abroad to make it easy for peopel to call me; since incoming calls were not charged; making VoIP calls cheaper than me calling. No, I just swap SIMS ofr use the low speed data my carrier provides for no extra cost abroad and use VoIP.

And EVERYONE takes their phone when they travel.

I would agree most do; even if they don't use it as it still is a camera, has contacts for an emergency, and with WiFi is easy to use abroad.

 

[Reason077]

The iPhone 13 supports 2 eSIMs. I use mine with 2 carriers and 0 physical SIM cards.

Oh, so the problem is already solved then!

 

[mannyvel]

It would be nice for an Apple MVNO to auto switch carriers to attain the best signal/throughput (which is what Fi used to do).

I think that becomes unmanageable because of the different ways SIMs are provisioned on networks for MVNOs. If they aren't provisioned then they're roaming, which costs more. But if you provision the SIM it also costs money (I'm not sure how much). So you have to continually balance all that.

That's probably why Google FI is now T-Mobile. Even RedPocket makes you choose the carrier now.

What would be super-interesting is that Apple could theoretically build a mesh backhaul using in-range iPhones, much the same way AirTags work. That would be a killer feature, and maybe obviate the need for carrier switching...or carriers even?

 

[Deguello]

I don’t think you would fall into the majority. I have put here that the majority don’t take nor need to take their phone abroad with them so a physical sim tray you can swap out is missed on them. Even to this day I know more people that when they are abroad will buy a phone there on pay as you go via a local carrier rather than bring their own expensive phone. A physical SIM card could also easily be replaced by something as primitive as a QR code you scan with the camera once the foil is scratched off.

Designing a phone to have features that benefits very few users and for only some of the time doesn’t make a lot of sense.

I don’t need my phone when I travel abroad. However, it is my camera, my map, my translator, my means of communicating with home, my way of checking in for transportation, my access to my reservations and proof of payment, and so on.

Most of that would be unavailable without buying a smartphone at my destination. Much easier to take my own iphone, whether my current one of backup, than not and I’ve had better luck with getting a SIM for a prepaid plan than an eSIM.

I don’t purport to know what the majority do, but I’d be surprised if the majority left their phones at home.

 

[Reason077]

Have you ever damaged or replaced your phone? Or dropped it off for service? Using a SIM lets you move your number to a different device instantly without having to call the carrier (from another phone) and have them move it for you, with the delays and possible fees. Getting rid of SIMs would be a huge mistake and extremely inconvenient.

eSIM lets you do all this too. Moving an eSIM to/from another device is done with a few taps in the iPhones’s settings app. No need to call the carrier.

The caveat is that both devices must support eSIM, of course!

 

[1rottenapple]

Why remove functionality. Granted it would be more watertight but an eSIM and slot allows for two numbers to be used easily as well and swap out for a local SIM when traveling.

An eSIM might involve needing to go to a carrier to activate which is one more hassle that can be avoided.

How can you move esim if you use two phones then?

 

[surfzen21]

UGH, I remember the days of having to choose between a phone that worked with Verizon or Att.

 

[JosephAW]

Speaking of CDMA, my carrier sent me a new GSM Sim and when I installed it, it went from two bars to no signal. And I asked them to switch it back and they refused to. They promised me that they were going to upgrade the towers and I should have service again.

I’ve moved on since then but I still have the phone and I checked yesterday and it still says no signal. They just lie to customers, they’re not going to spend any money upgrading cell towers.

 

[NYCValkyrie]

I don’t need my phone when I travel abroad. However, it is my camera, my map, my translator, my means of communicating with home, my way of checking in for transportation, my access to my reservations and proof of payment, and so on.

Most of that would be unavailable without buying a smartphone at my destination. Much easier to take my own iphone, whether my current one of backup, than not and I’ve had better luck with getting a SIM for a prepaid plan than an eSIM.

I don’t purport to know what the majority do, but I’d be surprised if the majority left their phones at home.

And these days, carriers like TMobile have roaming included, which you can pay to bump the speed up. Verizon has plans w/ travel days included and they can accumulate or you can pay a fee which is much more reasonable than it used to be. But really, you don't even need local pre-paid SIM cards any more if it is a standard length trip. Outside the US, WiFI is readily accessible and free in many public places. Perhaps they meant leaving their dedicated work phone at home but I don't know anyone who would leave their personal phone at home.

 

[platinumaqua]

Like with paid WiFi, you can activate a eSIM without a WiFi as long as you have a signal to the carrier you are selecting.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212780 apple support said a Wi-fi connection is required. Do you have experience setting up without an internet connection?

 

[cicalinarrot]

SIM cards are still more convenient in many situations, and many carriers do not support eSIM for various reasons.

For example, it takes literally just 10 seconds to install a physical SIM.

How long does it take to log in your account? Less than switching sim cards to me. And what if you don't have anything to open the tray with? Happened to me a few days ago on a train.

 

[cicalinarrot]

Have you ever damaged or replaced your phone? Or dropped it off for service? Using a SIM lets you move your number to a different device instantly without having to call the carrier (from another phone) and have them move it for you, with the delays and possible fees. Getting rid of SIMs would be a huge mistake and extremely inconvenient.

Is this a joke? Let's pretend you live in 2002 and you don't have your contacts already saved on whatsapp or something like that, and that you save your contacts on your sim and not your phone like I've always done, there's still a hundred better ways to save them automatically. We can't use really old technology because some people can't learn to use the new, better one.

 

[cicalinarrot]

One good reason: two factor. You can remove the sim and place it in another phone and get the code. With eSim only, no way to get the code.

Oh, wait, when I say we have to move to an account, I totally want it to allow to be switched between phones and I'm totally not cool with one-sim=one-phone like e-sim does. That's one step forward, three steps back.

 

[HarryDevlin]

I would love to see the end of the physical SIM card. As it stands it’s that thing you fiddle with when you first buy your phone and maybe swap when you are abroad if you don’t leave your phone at home like a normal person.

Huh? What kind of person leaves their phone at home when traveling abroad? That usage scenario would be extremely uncommon for both leisure and business travelers.

 

[sirdir]

That would have been dumb. I wouldn't be an iPhone user since 2007 in that case. iPhone would probably never have taken off outside the USA… BTW eSims are still a PITA, whenever I get a new iPhone I need to get a new eSIM, too. Provider just can't get it right.

 

[Radeon85]

The physical SIM slot is just a waste of space in this day and age that could be used for something else, I've used eSIMS only on my iPhone as soon as I was able to, so I just have an empty slot taking up space for not reason. About time the slot was scrapped as its a relic from the 90's that doesn't need to be there.

And for everyone that says they will move to another phone if the slot is removed, you can bet as soon as one company removes it the rest will eventually follow as usual.

 

[svish]

eSIM only variant most probably will only be available in select regions. I prefer to have a physical sim.

 

[MacSERV]

Removal of the physical SIM also limits your privacy options. Outside of using a Faraday cage, or having a completely dead battery, removing the SIM is the only guaranteed way to get your phone offline. Airplane mode is questionable since it’s a software switch…it might work as expected now but a simple OS update could change that behavior. Plus…how would Jason Bourne clone a SIM of a bad guy’s phone if it was eSIM only?

 

[zorinlynx]

I think you miss the point though. Yes it's a hassle because carriers make it so. It shouldn't be and doesn't have to be. When I upgrade to a new iPhone, it's seamless and I don't have to do anything special. I keep the phones next to each other an it asks if I want to transfer to a new phone. Yes, I do and then it transfers. No call to the (US) carrier, I don't have to go to a T-Mobile store.

If I want to switch to Verizon, I just install their app and sign up in the app and the eSIM is provisioned. Carriers like GigSky, Ubigi, Flexi roam, etc charge too much but it's so easy to activate an eSIM. You don't need to go to a store or talk to anyone. Download their app, it gets the info it needs, takes payment and provisions the eSIM.

In the UK, I think Three & EE still make you go to a physical store. Again, the technology doesn't require it, the carriers are making it harder than necessary.

I should also add that some carriers make it impossible to move a physical SIM to another phone and have it work without calling them. MetroPCS did this in the US for a while; no idea if they still do.

 

[Sf844]

Well, yes, but for instance with Norway it's supported by 2 carriers out of dozens of "carriers". In Norway there are 3 main networks and a whole lot of roaming carriers. It may be easy when the network supports it, but still...

When iPhones only come with esim all of them will offer it.

 

[Sf844]

My father has a pre-paid plan and I have been giving him my old devices when I buy a new one.

Today, I can easily move his physical SIM between phones (including trimming and sanding old SIM cards to the nano-SIM dimensions) and not be subjected to a carrier activation extortion fee.

I read carriers original objection to eSIM many years ago was they wanted to a cut of the device cost savings from Apple. I assume that with eSIM only phones, I will no longer have the luxury giving my father my old devices without the carrier hitting me with an activation extortion fee.

I just don’t get this business model so popular in America. Why don’t you buy the phone unlocked and get a cheap plan? Carriers don’t subsidize anything, they just sell you preposterously expensive plans and/or conditions.

 

[hagar]

I like physical SIM as I can switch my service from one phone to another without having to deal with the carrier in any way/form/capacity. Any day where I don't have to think about them is a good day.

Weird reasoning. Because that’s exactly the point of eSim. That you don’t have to deal with a carrier to get a physical SIM but instead activate it all online.