I fully accept that your phone isn't required for your work or your holiday, but I would caution against assuming that for the rest of us. I can't ever take a trip, weekend, or holiday without work calls. That's arguably not ideal, but it is the reality for many of us.
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Steve Jobs Wanted Original iPhone to Have No SIM Card Slot, Says Former iPod VP
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An Apple MVNO would make sense. It's supposedly a relatively easy business to run, because you can outsource literally everything.
That said, an Apple worldwide MVNO would make sense from a services point of view, especially given the margins on the Tier 1 plans in the US. I mean, Visible (which is a Verizon MVNO and subsidiary) is doing $25 for unlimited...compared to $80 on Verizon. That $55 delta supports Verizon's ad budget, which Apple won't need to do...and Visible is presumably making at least 50% on it's $25.
That said, an Apple worldwide MVNO would make sense from a services point of view, especially given the margins on the Tier 1 plans in the US. I mean, Visible (which is a Verizon MVNO and subsidiary) is doing $25 for unlimited...compared to $80 on Verizon. That $55 delta supports Verizon's ad budget, which Apple won't need to do...and Visible is presumably making at least 50% on it's $25.
I don’t think you would fall into the majority. I have put here that the majority don’t take nor need to take their phone abroad with them so a physical sim tray you can swap out is missed on them. Even to this day I know more people that when they are abroad will buy a phone there on pay as you go via a local carrier rather than bring their own expensive phone. A physical SIM card could also easily be replaced by something as primitive as a QR code you scan with the camera once the foil is scratched off.
Designing a phone to have features that benefits very few users and for only some of the time doesn’t make a lot of sense.
Is that actually the case, though? And if so, is there any evidence it’s related.
I feel you’re conflating things a little here. CDMA in this context is short for the product standard CDMA2000, for which EV-DO is the successor. Both of those use the radio standard CDMA, which is also used by the product standard UMTS (aka “3G”) which you completely neglect to mention. TDMA and FDMA are radio link standards used by GSM 2G, which hasn’t been relevant since the iPhone 3G.
Then you jump to LTE (aka “4G”), which, as you mention, uses OFDMA, which is superior to CDMA (the radio standard, thus all of 3G, CDMA2000 and EV-DO) in practice. 5G also uses this.
It would be nice for an Apple MVNO to auto switch carriers to attain the best signal/throughput (which is what Fi used to do).
I prefer the term simplifying. I jump from 2G to 4G because 3G was a hot mess of updates. Between even generations were a series of microgeneration that makes comparing them difficult. Bickering about obsolete tech is silly, and we are getting away from my initial point. CDMA had a more reliable solution for moving between towers. Features and data speeds are second to a reliable connection since they don't work if the link to the tower is broken. This is why I say CDMA was better than GSM>
You still do exactly that. Put both phones near each other, a prompt comes up, you say Yes, you do want to move it… done.
Good luck by swapping an eSIM to another phone, if your carrier provided a "one time" QR-Code. You will have to show up in a shop of your carrier and get another "one time" code.
Physical SIM cards are swappable until they break. eSIM are controllable by your provider. He might charge you a fee - he might make you wait his approval, he might do whatever he wants...
I do like the concept of eSIM, but already ran into problematic situations. Just be abroad and your phone beaks and you should have to visit that provider shop from in person...
The problem with eSIM is that it is still mostly used for post-paid accounts. Aside from carriers like Gigsky, most country-specific carriers require a post paid account, which makes no sense to me. I keep tabs on this thread and the list of pre-paid eSIMs is still really bad on a global scale. Anyway, I think it'll eventually get there but it'll be like pulling teeth because carriers don't want to pay to upgrade systems to support such things.
Just a little correction here. EVDO is not a successor to CDMA2000. It’s a data enhancement to it - EVolution- Data Only. Trade terms, 1xEVDO. It’s EDGE to GSM. It’s HSPA to W-CDMA. That last one being a correction to the previous post too. GSM died at 2G. Edge was their 3G data, until it wasn’t. It got relabeled as 2.9G as they all adopted W-CDMA, branded as UMTS. The only way CDMA was superior to W-CDMA was they could slice spectrum down as small as 1.25 mhz channels, where W-CDMA needed all 5 mhz… so you could serve more people……. Very slowly.
Now I wonder if I'm in the bubble or you are or if it's some UK/Scottish vs EU thing. I won't be discussing the eSIM vs regular, just the statement that it's "not normal to take your phone abroad" as in: less than 50% of the people do it.
Subjectively, I see pretty much every one using their phones before they enter and after they leave a plane, on trains, pre/past border crossings.
Subjectively, I see vast majority of conference attendees using mobile phones and I wonder if majority of them bought them there just for a one time use. Subjectively, most of them seem not the cheap phones - I always see a lot of iPhones, Galaxies, Pixels, etc.
Subjectively, I also see a lot of and dare I say a majority of tourists in my city on major photo-op locations, cities that I visit, on ski trips, on hikes, on beaches, in ports or even directly on the sea taking photos/videos/selfies with their phones, making calls or otherwise generally using/checking "their"(?) phones at least once over time.
Some times people take their older phones when visiting a bit risky location or on a more adventure pack vacation/work trip. But it's their phones and they are still taking them.
Our telcos also provide detailed yearly statistics that show that a huge proportion (majority) of their customers used the roaming option. Mainly during the summer months. Ok, this serves their purpose, so they might skew the statistics. They obviously omit stats for the people who bought local sims as the provider has no access to this information. At least I guess. Buying local sim outside of EU where our zero-cost roaming ends seems to be pretty normal or not a rarity at least.
I've personally never heard a friend, a family member or a colleague talking about not taking their phone abroad.
- Turning it off at times? Sure.
- Using it less? Of course.
- Taking it for hike/small island/sailing vacation but intentionally turning it off for the whole duration to enjoy "off-line" world for a few days? Sure.
Am I the one in the bubble? Or is this just different per country and we kind of both are in the nation/local bubble? 🤔
I think you miss the point though. Yes it's a hassle because carriers make it so. It shouldn't be and doesn't have to be. When I upgrade to a new iPhone, it's seamless and I don't have to do anything special. I keep the phones next to each other an it asks if I want to transfer to a new phone. Yes, I do and then it transfers. No call to the (US) carrier, I don't have to go to a T-Mobile store.
If I want to switch to Verizon, I just install their app and sign up in the app and the eSIM is provisioned. Carriers like GigSky, Ubigi, Flexi roam, etc charge too much but it's so easy to activate an eSIM. You don't need to go to a store or talk to anyone. Download their app, it gets the info it needs, takes payment and provisions the eSIM.
In the UK, I think Three & EE still make you go to a physical store. Again, the technology doesn't require it, the carriers are making it harder than necessary.
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I would hope I don't fall into the majority on this issue, and we weren't discussing what the "majority" does at all. This was prompted by your assertion that "normal people" do not travel abroad with phones, and I believe that is highly inaccurate (and fairly judgmental). Regardless, the original point many were making is that SIM-card slots facilitate foreign travel for many of us, and that -- for those of us who do travel with phones -- it's nice to swap SIM's as an alternative to dealing with customer services people, weird fees, etc.
Phone companies would never get away with putting up any barriers to changing eSIM. They can’t break existing laws just because the technology progresses.
I agree that people who are on vacation *shouldn't* have to take work calls. However even if you don't plan to make personal phone calls, it is still a nice alarm clock, music player, camera, etc.
Are you traveling to the Sun? I'm not sure which country doesn't use cell phones because it is too hot.
I travel internationally (or used to in the before times) often for both work and personal and this isn't in line with that I have observed in person or on any travel forums. Perhaps 20-30 years ago people needed to do this but certainly not since the dawn of the smart phone where there are literal maps on your phone.
And you don't have to scan a QR code if the carrier has an app that gets the info it needs to provision in the system. This, again, is a misunderstanding that the technology can't handle it. It absolutely can but carriers refuse.
And EVERYONE takes their phone when they travel.
Abandoning the SIM would be a boneheaded decision in my opinion. I’m really disheartened to hear that Apple is seriously pursuing that route.
I remember how much of a pain it used to be, being a Verizon customer back in the 2000’s, when getting a new phone required calling some activation number that I could never remember and waiting for a phone to be activated. All the other carriers just required you to move your SIM card. It just worked.
Verizon eventually added SIMs when it rolled out its LTE network — but now we’re regressing back to where we have to get the carrier involved to activate phones again. That’s just crazy to me.
I remember how much of a pain it used to be, being a Verizon customer back in the 2000’s, when getting a new phone required calling some activation number that I could never remember and waiting for a phone to be activated. All the other carriers just required you to move your SIM card. It just worked.
Verizon eventually added SIMs when it rolled out its LTE network — but now we’re regressing back to where we have to get the carrier involved to activate phones again. That’s just crazy to me.
Aye a QR code shouldn’t be needed but something as primitive as one would make a easy way for a non techi user to input the data required for a new eSIM. Though currently you just select the carrier from a list.
eSIM is pretty dumb. It needs internet access to activate, but people buy SIM cards abroad to get Internet access on their phones. A lot of Wi-Fi hotspots in airports are locked out or require registration, some of which require a local phone number.
Lack of physical SIM card just makes it easier for carriers to control the mobility of your phone, like in the pre-LTE CDMA days with Sprint and Verizon.
Lack of physical SIM card just makes it easier for carriers to control the mobility of your phone, like in the pre-LTE CDMA days with Sprint and Verizon.
Ok, then just get a physical SIM and you are set. I do not see any laws that would not allow me to put my own whatsoeverSIM into another phone - unless my carrier wants to avoid it for whatever reason that fits his "concept" to annoy customers.
Or use a eSIM exactly the same with absolutely no negatives.
Like with paid WiFi, you can activate a eSIM without a WiFi as long as you have a signal to the carrier you are selecting.
