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Go, Woz! To me, you were the heart and soul of Apple.

I disagree. Woz left Apple in 1985 because he (felt) he had nothing left to contribute and said everything after the Apple II was "the wrong direction." Apple didn't become Apple until Steve returned from Next many years later.

I like Woz but he's more beloved because of his early association with a superstar than anything. Sort of a tech Pete Best. It's hard to argue that Apple is anything but Steve.
 
Wow, Woz, Woz. Why all the anger? Feeling "Left" out? You're trying to sell people that SJ would be different than Tim? It's not 1980 Woz. Apple is not what you even remotely remember.
Why don't you share you're stories about how Fiscally Conservative SJ really was? Who marketed and sold the resistors in the Garage Woz? Who found the funding to start up? Tim is doing exactly what SJ would be doing. Do you think Apple's Off Shore Cash suddenly appeared after SJ passed? Please, SJ knew what Apple was doing and condoned it.

I know. As a gesture of your All Encompassing Knowledge of the Universe, give up your annual salary from "Big Bad Apple." They won't be able to write it off any longer under "Operating Losses."

Get off your high horse. You're a ignorant fool to be paying 50% on income. I suggest you work on loosing 50%. :apple:
 
Wow, Woz, Woz. Why all the anger? Feeling "Left" out? You're trying to sell people that SJ would be different than Tim? It's not 1980 Woz. Apple is not what you even remotely remember.
Why don't you share you're stories about how Fiscally Conservative SJ really was? Who marketed and sold the resistors in the Garage Woz? Who found the funding to start up? Tim is doing exactly what SJ would be doing. Do you think Apple's Off Shore Cash suddenly appeared after SJ passed? Please, SJ knew what Apple was doing and condoned it.

I know. As a gesture of your All Encompassing Knowledge of the Universe, give up your annual salary from "Big Bad Apple." They won't be able to write it off any longer under "Operating Losses."

Get off your high horse. You're a ignorant fool to be paying 50% on income. I suggest you work on loosing 50%. :apple:

I don't think Woz is a guy who gets angry...

Or who worries about paying his taxes...
 
I love Woz, but there is one little flaw with his idea. What would a dysfunctional government do with all this corporate money? If it can't handle the money of the people right, it won't do any better with the Apple treasure.

That's not the flaw mate, the flaw is that Wozniak wants APPLE CUSTOMERS to pay these taxes. About as progressive as you can get, if you will simply look past the envy aspects of it.

I know that lots of people love Wozniak, but he is a bit of a doofus outside of his initial engineering contributions. Could be because he crashed a perfectly good airplane and suffered a brain injury? Who knows? He made a ton of mistakes after that incident.

Why for instance, is his own tax rate the standard for corporations? Most Americans anyway, pay little or no taxes. The tax rate is far belong Woz's rate unless one is in the top 20% of wage earners.
 
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That's not the flaw mate, the flaw is that Wozniak wants APPLE CUSTOMERS to pay these taxes. About as progressive as you can get, if you will simply look past the envy aspects of it.

I know that lots of people love Wozniak, but he is a bit of a doofus outside of his initial engineering contributions. Could be because he crashed a perfectly good airplane and suffered a brain injury? Who knows? He made a ton of mistakes after that incident.

Yep because liberals are well jealous...
 
We can argue about whether or not a specific tax would be better all day, but that wasn't the point of the article. The point was that Woz thinks it should be 50%. He is dead wrong.

He isn't wrong because of what the government may or may not do with the funds. He is wrong because of what the visionaries at the companies we discuss in here all the time are trying to accomplish.

I have spent time working on technical projects for several of the companies we discuss in here and I can tell you that many of them see their products as a means to connecting people and improving the world we live in. And you know what? They are way better at it than any agency of the government ever will be.

You need to look no further than Apple Campus 2 or the proposed major redesign of Google Campus in Mountain View to see truly science fiction level visions evolving into reality. And those are just steps in the path to truly amazing breakthroughs in our national infrastructure, transportation, and information services.

Big Brother would only make a fraction of those things happen with that money. If you think otherwise, you are only kidding yourself.
 
Companies have an obligation to their shareholders to pay as little tax as possible. This doesn't make it right, though it makes it understandable. Nobody willingly pays more than they have to, so you'll have to change the law to prevent it from happening.

However TC is talking rubbish when he says that Apple is following both the letter and the spirit of the law. Mind you, you can't very well say that you're legally exploiting tax loopholes.

There is no virtue in paying taxes at what is essentially gunpoint. Apple should shelter taxes as much as possible, which in the end, are paid by Apple Customers. Every cent comes from you and me.
 
We can argue about whether or not a specific tax would be better all day, but that wasn't the point of the article. The point was that Woz thinks it should be 50%. He is dead wrong.

He isn't wrong because of what the government may or may not do with the funds. He is wrong because of what the visionaries at the companies we discuss in here all the time are trying to accomplish.

I have spent time working on technical projects for several of the companies we discuss in here and I can tell you that many of them see their products as a means to connecting people and improving the world we live in. And you know what? They are way better at it than any agency of the government ever will be.

You need to look no further than Apple Campus 2 or the proposed major redesign of Google Campus in Mountain View to see truly science fiction level visions evolving into reality. And those are just steps in the path to truly amazing breakthroughs in our national infrastructure, transportation, and information services.

Big Brother would only make a fraction of those things happen with that money. If you think otherwise, you are only kidding yourself.

Sorry what exactly is Apple or Google really doing to make the world better?
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There is no virtue in paying taxes at what is essentially gunpoint. Apple should shelter taxes as much as possible, which in the end, are paid by Apple Customers. Every cent comes from you and me.

Surely property ownership is at gunpoint too?
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Liberals hate the rich, though! I read that on a website once, and thought it sounded really cool!

The fact that plenty of liberals aren't exactly poor seems to escape them. I mean the liberal elite is a thing.
 
And right there is the problem with taxation, it's takes away an individual/entity's hard EARNED increase and redistributes it to someone else - whether person or program, that some bureaucrat thinks is important. Who are they to decide? What about the rights of the one who earned it?

Let me dissect your examples, with an eye toward historical solutions (some from a long time ago):

Education: No. Was handled privately and by small towns/organizations. Ed in US was good, now in shambles.
Healthcare: No. One word: Obamacare - biggest pile of stinkin' **** in the history of the country.
Enviro. protection: Yes. Unfortunately however, the power has been grossly abused. Scale it back.
Assist seniors/ill: No. It's the responsibility of individual families, community, charity. Shame on us.
Law enforcement: Yes. But with less govt. overreach, & more prosperity there would be less law breaking.
Tax incentives: No. No subsidies/breaks for anyone/anything. You succeed or fail based on merit. Low tax for all.
Student loans: No. Government has destroyed student loans, created the mess. End it all.
Roads/infrastructure: Yes. And current govt. is grossly neglecting this responsibility.
Clean energy: No. Would naturally evolve in a truly free competitive private market. See enviro. above.
Mass transit: Yes/No. Other than in large cities, it is a dismal failure. Failing in some cities too. (DC)
Science R&D: No. Private matter/investment. Govt. taxation/redistribution did not invent the light bulb.
Culture/Arts: No. Private matter/business. If you're good, you'll make money, if you suck you wont.
Museums: Maybe. Private/public partnerships would probably be best.
National Parks: Yes. Unfortunately the power has again been abused and used to confiscate private lands.
Let me add one you missed: Defense: Yes. One of the only govt. responsibilities actually in the Constitution.

We could go on and on and on with examples. The nuts and bolts of the thing is that all these things you cite (roads, schools, research, etc.) were originally created by private interests/individuals, not governments. And these individuals almost always did a better job of it. When it comes to tax, Apple pays what it is legally obligated to pay. The "fairness" argument is a fallacy. What is "fair?" The real solution is to get government out of as many things as humanly possible, so we can have a low equitable tax rate that's exactly the same for absolutely everyone.

Ending govt. meddling, and a flat rate of 10-15% would increase economic activity, create immense prosperity for everyone, and generate more tax revenue than governments would know what to do with - which excesses of course should be placed in emergency funds and returned to the tax payer in the form of even lower tax rates.

Flat tax will not work for the working class. Wages are artificially low and they end up spending a larger % of their income on taxes.
 
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I wouldn't put too much stock in what the Woz says. I was at a conference last year that he spoke at and I don't think he's all there. He rambled for about an hour and I hear that's not uncommon for him.

He may be paying 50% in taxes but that doesn't mean a corporation should. Corporations have to pay wages, buy capital assets, buy inventory, etc; an individual doesn't. If it were up to me, corporations wouldn't pay any tax because the wages that they generate are already taxed and consumers pay sales tax when they buy the product. When a consumer buys a product, its been taxed three different ways already.
 
I wouldn't put too much stock in what the Woz says. I was at a conference last year that he spoke at and I don't think he's all there. He rambled for about an hour and I hear that's not uncommon for him.

He may be paying 50% in taxes but that doesn't mean a corporation should. Corporations have to pay wages, buy capital assets, buy inventory, etc; an individual doesn't. If it were up to me, corporations wouldn't pay any tax because the wages that they generate are already taxed and consumers pay sales tax when they buy the product. When a consumer buys a product, its been taxed three different ways already.

Corporations only pay taxes on their profits.
 
They'd fund schools properly. They'd support and fix a hospital system in crisis. There would be great outcomes for everyone if companies paid proper tax.

That's quite naive. If democrats controlled everything that would happen. Otherwise, nope. Those things aren't in the GOP agenda.
 
I'm educated and still can't seem to get a grasp on how taxes are handled. I have been doing my families taxes for a decade now and we have lived in several countries. The main theme, and the point I am trying to get to, in all the countries was that I felt the taxes should just be a set amount across the board. For example, it doesn't matter if you make 10k a year or 10B a year you would have to pay something like 15%. I'm just throwing out numbers but what I am saying is that if it was a simple tax code with an even percentage for everyone we wouldn't have people escaping tax bills by building in other countries. Again though, I don't understand all the fine print on taxes.

Flat taxes sound good but they aren't good for people on the low end of the economic ladder. Deductions are introduced to the tax code to enable and encourage people to do good things with their money that help everyone in the big picture. For example, people who buy houses get a mortgage deduction because people who own houses tend to take better care of their neighborhoods. Deductions for low income people to be able to afford child care so they are incentivized to get a job rather than stay on assistance. And business owners get deductions when they reinvest in their businesses, which can lead to more jobs being created and more money transfer between businesses which keeps the economy flowing. Deductions or tax incentives for retirement savings encourage people to save for their retirement so they don't have to rely so much on Social Security. Charity deductions encourage people to give more to charity. See where I'm going with this? The problem Apple faces is that the cost to repatriate money made overseas is too high, way higher than competitors like Samsung pay to bring all their money back to Korea. So Apple keeps all that money overseas and uses it to run their overseas businesses but I'm sure they would rather have the freedom to use that money wherever they might need to.
 
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So should he be unemployed? I'm not clear how he could avoid this hypocrisy. Or how any of us can...

To some people, there mere act of criticizing something you belong to or are attached to in some way is hypocritical. Woz, being one of the founding members of the company, and apparently still receives a stipend from it, has absolutely no room to say anything bad about the company whatsoever.
 
To some people, there mere act of criticizing something you belong to or are attached to in some way is hypocritical. Woz, being one of the founding members of the company, and apparently still receives a stipend from it, has absolutely no room to say anything bad about the company whatsoever.

So if you have a private pension you can't criticise any publicly listed corporatation, nor can you if you work for one with a pension scheme.
 
Talk about a total mis-characterization of the interview with Woz!

Either there were two separate interviews with Woz, or the person who wrote that article did not watch the interview on the BBC.
 
By the way, anyone who thinks Apple was founded NOT to make money is a loon...

Woz may have wanted to give away his little tech toy to the computer club, but he had NO problem becoming the co-founder and equal partner of a company set up to SELL Apple computers AT A PROFIT.
 
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