OS Neutral Still Using Steam? Read this.

Discussion in 'Mac and PC Games' started by Washac, Oct 31, 2014.

  1. Washac macrumors 68020

    Washac

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  2. Wardenski macrumors 6502

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    #2
    This risk has been present ever since digitial distribution took hold. Physical copies often still require activation online and I think the same thing is true there: you don't own the game, only the liscense. Its a bit silly and I understand why people are frustrated.

    At present, I think Steam is a good service overall and I will continue to use it.

    Everything I have done online requires some agreement to terms and conditions to be honest. Even some physical copies require you to read an agreement.

    Also, that article is from 2012 and Steam is as popular as ever as far as I am aware.
     
  3. iMi macrumors 6502a

    iMi

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    #3
    The problem with tort law being dismantled in the U.S. by corporations goes well beyond Steam. Almost every single service we use, including cell phones, credit cards, television, insurance, financial services, etc. requires you to give up your right to have a day in court should the company cause you harm.

    Arbitrators are chosen by the corporation if you choose to arbitrate. They deal with you once. They deal with the corporation that hired them everyday. Does anyone really believes them to be impartial? Of course not... Look up the outcome of arbitration hearings and you'll know everything you need to know about the practice. Corporations win just about every time. In short, you give up your legal rights in order to use the goods or services provided.

    This is a real problem. Most people don't know or care about it.
     
  4. foobarbazqux macrumors regular

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    Apr 17, 2014
    #4
    I doubt many people will change their minds. For those that do, I'd bet that most aren't aware how common this practice is in the US and that they've almost certainly signed contracts in the past with this clause in it. Lots of contracts that consumers freely sign every day have this type of clause in it.
     
  5. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #5
    If I could find a convenient DRM free alternative to Steam, I'd use it. I've always thought it was onerous. Just have not found one yet and the reality is that there are great deals available continuously on Steam opening up opportunities to play some classic games, I would otherwise not be able to play. :confused:
     
  6. saturnotaku macrumors 68000

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    #6
  7. Washac thread starter macrumors 68020

    Washac

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    #7
    Already have Wii all be it an old original one, also have PS3 :)
     
  8. iMi macrumors 6502a

    iMi

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    #8
    You are still bound by arbitration agreements when you use PS3, Xbox, etc. They literally have the same exact requirement you "resolve" disputes through arbitration. At least Sony let's you opt out. They all have these agreements and through powerful lobby they are slowly dismantling tort law in this country. It's actually quite alarming.

    Here's Sony's EUA arbitration clause, for example:

    18. BINDING INDIVIDUAL ARBITRATION

    Purpose. The term "Dispute" means any dispute, claim, or controversy between you and any Sony Group entity regarding any SEN First Party Services or the use of any devices sold by a Sony Entity to access SEN First Party Services, whether based in contract, statute, regulation, ordinance, tort (including, but not limited to, fraud, misrepresentation, fraudulent inducement, or negligence), or any other legal or equitable theory, and includes the validity, enforceability or scope of this Section 18 (with the exception of the enforceability of the Class Action Waiver clause below). "Dispute" is to be given the broadest possible meaning that will be enforced. If you have a Dispute with any Sony Entity or any of a Sony Entity's officers, directors, employees and agents that cannot be resolved through negotiation within the time frame described in the "Notice of Dispute" clause below. Other than those matters listed in the Exclusions from Arbitration clause, you and the Sony Entity that you have a Dispute with agree to seek resolution of the Dispute only through arbitration of that Dispute in accordance with the terms of this Section 18, and not litigate any Dispute in court. Arbitration means that the Dispute will be resolved by a neutral arbitrator instead of in a court by a judge or jury.

    Exclusions from Arbitration. YOU AND THE SONY ENTITIES AGREE THAT ANY CLAIM FILED BY YOU OR BY A SONY ENTITY IN SMALL CLAIMS COURT ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THE ARBITRATION TERMS CONTAINED IN THIS SECTION 18.

    RIGHT TO OPT OUT OF BINDING ARBITRATION AND CLASS ACTION WAIVER WITHIN 30 DAYS. IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO BE BOUND BY THE BINDING ARBITRATION AND CLASS ACTION WAIVER IN THIS SECTION 18, YOU MUST NOTIFY SNEI IN WRITING WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE DATE THAT YOU ACCEPT THIS AGREEMENT UNLESS A LONGER PERIOD IS REQUIRED BY APPLICABLE LAW. YOUR WRITTEN NOTIFICATION MUST BE MAILED TO 6080 CENTER DRIVE, 10TH FLOOR, LOS ANGELES, CA 90045, ATTN: LEGAL DEPARTMENT/ARBITRATION AND MUST INCLUDE: (1) YOUR NAME, (2) YOUR ADDRESS, (3) YOUR SEN FIRST PARTY SERVICES ONLINE ID, IF YOU HAVE ONE, AND (4) A CLEAR STATEMENT THAT YOU DO NOT WISH TO RESOLVE DISPUTES WITH ANY SONY ENTITY THROUGH ARBITRATION.
     
  9. ayeying macrumors 601

    ayeying

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    #9
    There's also the problem that some games are only on Steam
     
  10. Dirtyharry50 macrumors 68000

    Dirtyharry50

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    #10
    I don't even bother to read or care about any of this stuff. I just operate under the assumption that I have no rights whatsoever and that my only hope is that companies will be compelled by the lowest form of morality (fear of punishment) to do the right thing for customers. The punishment I am referring to is the loss of those customers thus impacting their profits.

    For example, it is in Steam's, GOG's, the App Store's, etc. best interests to keep people happy overall and not screw them if they want to stay in business. So far this seems to be working out okay overall. So I don't worry about it.
     
  11. Irishman macrumors 68030

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    #11
  12. Pakaku macrumors 68000

    Pakaku

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    #12
    The closest would be GOG.com. It's also mentioned in the referred article. I don't buy a lot of games, but from what I've noticed buying from them, their service has been very good.
     
  13. Washac thread starter macrumors 68020

    Washac

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    #13
    If they are as you say ONLY on steam then for me they stay on steam, I can move on to the next game, plenty out there these days and I have a huge back catalogue to keep me going.

    ----------

    Yup, I use them all time no DRM and the game is yours to do with want you want, well within reason of coarse. Download the game store it where you want, install it, play it, no reliance on any online client, no broadband required, well unless you want to play multiplayer on some games of coarse.
     
  14. roadbloc macrumors G3

    roadbloc

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    #14
    Meh.

    Only effects US users. And I'm not planning on suing Valve anytime soon, I just use Steam to play some video games. And even then, its hardly anything compared to what Apple successfully slip by in their EULAs. Steam is the saviour of the gaming industry as far as I'm concerned.. Freedom, flexibility and damn good deals on games.
     
  15. saturnotaku macrumors 68000

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    #15
    ^ This.
     
  16. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #16
    I will keep this in mind for future purchases.

    One advantage Steam appears to have is as an active Indy game portal. I'm wondering how many of those games like Space Engineers or Blockscape are available through other avenues? And although there is a circumstance were Steam could lock you out of your games, I imagine this is not an issue for average players just playing their games. My understanding is that some kind of cheating or hacking would have to be involved. Is there another example?
     
  17. MagnusVonMagnum macrumors 601

    MagnusVonMagnum

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    #17
    I've seen less and less games for the Mac on Steam and more appear on the App Store (e.g. you can get a Mac version of the updated Baldur's Gate series on the App Store, but not on Steam). The plus for Steam in the past has been that you get both the Windows and Mac versions so I don't have to deal with the potential problem of switching platforms in the future if Apple continues to destroy either OS X hardware choices or the OS itself. Plus often the Windows versions run faster even on the same Mac hardware running Windows.

    But the past couple of years, I find a LOT of games that are Windows only on Steam that DO have Mac versions available (often by Aspyr and I imagine they allow some and not others due to bad licensing deals with Steam that are not very profitable for Aspyr compared to the App Store and I think this has something to do with getting the Windows versions for free and they sometimes get the money rather than Aspyr depending on which one you run first or something like that). In any case, Steam doesn't have a very good advantage with getting BOTH games if you cannot actually get both games any longer. Sometimes, the games are at different stages of functionality between the App Store and Steam, though (e.g. The Cave supported a lot more joysticks on Steam than the App Store and despite promises to update it, the update NEVER arrived and so I can use a PS3 controller on Steam, but without a keyboard conversion App, I can't use it with the App version).

    The big advantage with the App Store is that it typically downloads the FULL game to your Mac. You don't need to be online with the App Store to play most Mac games. You don't need to start the App Store first like you do Steam (or the icon starts it for you). It will just RUN. That means even if you don't run the App Store for a year, you can still start your games. Steam constantly wants UPDATES and that is very annoying when you just want to play a game for 10 minutes before going somewhere and it wastes that 10 minutes updating Steam instead. You can also download any game (or other Apps) purchased on the App Store to as many Macs as you own, even ones you share (e.g. I have an account on a family member's MBP for when I visit their house). Yes, you can use Steam on more than one computer, but you can't have Steam running on more than one at a time, so if I have it updating games on my desktop, I can't be playing it on my notebook or vice versa.

    Yet other games aren't available for either one (e.g. I got Dragon Age Origins ULTIMATE and Dragon Age II for the Mac for about $5 each from EA's own store, but STEAM only had Dragon Age for Windows and at the time it was $15 on sale (I've since seen it on sale for less). Yes, it's not a new game, but it was the best RPG ever made, IMO (the first one). So neither Steam or the App Store are always a viable choice for some games. Look at Diablo 3. You can't get it from either one. I heard such horrible things about it, I didn't get it plus it cost $60 and Blizzard is known for NOT lowering their prices, but you can now get the main game for $20 online and from Amazon. The expansion is tiny and costs too much still (consoles have a combined version available now). They supposedly fixed the biggest complaints (auction house gone, etc.), but you still need to be online. But you aren't getting either one on Steam or the App Store the last time I looked.
     
  18. antonis macrumors 68000

    antonis

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    #18
    Yup, I don't think you'll ever see any Blizzard title on Steam or anywhere else, other than the Blizzard store. Blizzard keeps a very closed ecosystem to control their titles and prices, the patches/updates, they have their own launcher that is global for all their games with a single account etc.
     
  19. iMi macrumors 6502a

    iMi

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    Sep 13, 2014
    #19
    I still don't like what's being done to the tort law in this country but, to put it in perspective, these are just games. I like Steam and have ton of games on it. Our rights, basis of social justice, bla bla bla... Who cares? There are more pressing issues to consider out there, like when will Civilization: Beyond Earth go on sale. Winter Sale? Will it be 50% off...75% maybe? Should I buy it now? :rolleyes:
     
  20. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #20
    I chose Torchlight and Torchlight 2 instead of Diablo 3... No online requirement.however the most common way to buy is through Steam.
    Amazon link

    I think I know the answer but I'll ask, I assume if you buy a game through Steam even if it is available through other avenues, your version is locked to Steam?
     
  21. MagnusVonMagnum macrumors 601

    MagnusVonMagnum

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    #21
    Yes, most Steam games require Steam to function. I think some can be run without Steam being online "somehow" (I read as such somewhere, but I never got it to work here), but others need it to start first for certain. Some have nice "sync" features (most Valve games) where you can continue on a different computer with no local saves, but then you ALSO have to wait for it to sync saves which can take a long time sometimes (e.g. I just played the original Half Life and it could sometimes take 5 minutes to save or load when the Steam servers for that function were "seemingly" busy (i.e. I have no idea what the hold up was, but the transfer rates were unbelievably slow given I have 5Mbps uploads and 20Mbps downloads, it was doing like 15kbps upload speeds) so I had to sit there and wait when I started it up again.

    I already own Torchlight I and II on Steam so if a Mac version of II ever becomes available, I'll have access to it, supposedly, but I wouldn't hold my breath at this point. VMWare with XP didn't have all the eye candy features and ran slower than my older real PC, but then it started crashing all the time on their last update (probably memory related since XP has such small memory limits by today's standards and people with Win7 and more memory reported no crashes, but it was working fine until that update and unfortunately, there was no way to go back to the older version and Steam likes to automatically update everything the first chance it gets, even if the update is buggy).
     
  22. roadbloc macrumors G3

    roadbloc

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    UK
    #22
    Its really simple. I use it a lot. Simply switch to Offline Mode and all of your singleplayer games (ie. games that are not just soley multiplayer or require a connection to function due to cloud services) will work just fine.

    One of my laptops has been running Steam games in offline mode for about 2 years now. Still hasn't asked for a connection.
     
  23. Pakaku macrumors 68000

    Pakaku

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    #23
    I wonder how difficult it would be to convince an indie dev to release their game outside of Steam.

    Asides from cheating, credit card fraud can be an easy way to get banned.
     
  24. Solomani macrumors 68030

    Solomani

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    #24
    GOG and Humble are far second choices (to Steam) since GOG and Humble provide much of their games DRM-free. But I admit that Steam still beats them in terms of game selection as well as pricing (frequent discounts).

    I hope everyone does realize that when you buy a game on GOG or Humble that are not DRM-free, many of those games are very likely Steam-dependent, meaning that you will still need a Steam account to activate those games. This is always the case with Humble Store games that are pre-sold as "Early Access".

    So even when you do buy your games in places like GOG or Humble…. let's realize that some of those games are still enslaved by Steam-dependency.

    Below is a typical game preview shown in the Humble Store as "Early Access".
     

    Attached Files:

  25. Washac, Nov 2, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2014

    Washac thread starter macrumors 68020

    Washac

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    #25
    Every game on GoG is DRM FREE, nothing on GoG is steam dependent.

    Think you need to go and read the GOG website properly, main screen does state...

    "100% DRM Free you buy it is yours"

    I have over 100 games from GoG and not one is steam dependent.

    Tell me a game on GoG that is enslaved to steam ?
     

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