That is what the op doesn't get. By the way did you hear windows 8 is going to fix all the problems windows7 had
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Stop Lion! Let Mac be a Mac.
- Thread starter thronborg
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
That's exactly the problem: it's all conjecture!
If Apple had taken 5 seconds during any of the presentation(s) to just say something like: "Power users will still be able to use the Mac like they always have." (or words to that effect), it would have made a huge difference.
Again, this (Power User) oversight combined with conjecture and the actual deprecation of Java is troubling (that is, the direction in which the Mac may be headed)...
-- M
Most of you "power users" are overreacting. You don't know what's going to happen so you're coming up with these elaborate ideas that Apple is going to remove everything and just make it a giant iPad. Apple isn't going to do that if anything, as someone said above, Apple will just push the "power user" stuff to the background so the average user isn't confused. It'll still be there but the OS will function better for the majority of their users.
I realize you're worried but there isn't anything to be worried about. There have been no signs that Apple is going to dumb the whole thing down.
I realize you're worried but there isn't anything to be worried about. There have been no signs that Apple is going to dumb the whole thing down.
Yes, you could be right. But the Back to the Mac event looked more like the ipad is coming to the mac (ios).
Unless you have inside information you could share, I can only go on what I've seen from Apple. Otherwise, you're also conjecturing and guessing along with the rest of us.
However, assuming you're right, then OS/X 10.7 will be better overall. I just need to make sure I can get work done...
I didn't consider myself a power user, per se, until I considered the ipad as a model for computing.
Java is _already_ problematic. AFAIK, nobody has yet stepped up to take over distributing it to the mac. IDE vendors are readying contingency plans I know, but nobody is happy about the state of Java on the Mac that I know.
Hopefully, as your post suggests, the whole issue is a communications failure by Apple. However, as good as Apple is at communicating, this too is surprising.
Thanks for your posting.
When updating my imac previously, I have always waited to see if the improvement is worth it or if there were any steps backwards.
These subtle differences in the way the os works mean almost nothing to me but have previously caused problems when updating the os. (10.2 to 10.4 everything dies and must use a backup. Grrrrr! took even longer with usb 1.1 back then...)
These subtle differences in the way the os works mean almost nothing to me but have previously caused problems when updating the os. (10.2 to 10.4 everything dies and must use a backup. Grrrrr! took even longer with usb 1.1 back then...)
Yes, you could be right. But the Back to the Mac event looked more like the ipad is coming to the mac (ios).
Unless you have inside information you could share, I can only go on what I've seen from Apple. Otherwise, you're also conjecturing and guessing along with the rest of us.
However, assuming you're right, then OS/X 10.7 will be better overall. I just need to make sure I can get work done...
I didn't consider myself a power user, per se, until I considered the ipad as a model for computing.
Java is _already_ problematic. AFAIK, nobody has yet stepped up to take over distributing it to the mac. IDE vendors are readying contingency plans I know, but nobody is happy about the state of Java on the Mac that I know.
Hopefully, as your post suggests, the whole issue is a communications failure by Apple. However, as good as Apple is at communicating, this too is surprising.
Thanks for your posting.
You aren't going by what you have seen, you are going by what you haven't seen.
They show some features that look like some of the design and UX aspects of the iPad will be coming to their computer lineup. And people go crazy, thinking that Lion -- and the Mac -- will be closed, that the Mac App Store will be the only way to get software. I don't see the logical jump there.
It's a bit early to scream "Stop Lion!". I use OS X and iOS. I prefer iOS for simple tasks like web browsing, games, looking up phone numbers, etc. In fact, Address and iCal feel downright clunky next to my iPhone and iPad for those tasks. I would love to see dashboard turned into an "iOS" for the desktop where I could run the iOS apps I purchased for my iThings on my Mac if I wanted to. But I definitely don't want to see, nor do I expect to see the entire OS "dumbed down". Sure they might hide the finder. Big whoop. I'll find and unhide it first thing just like I used to go pick "show file extensions" immediately whenever I got a new windows box.
I may not agree with everything Apple does, but I do agree with their approach to providing a near flawless end to end user experience. I know this is a bit of a reach but it reminds me of the difference between going to Disney World versus going to Cedar Point. Sure I can ride bigger coasters at "the Point", but the hotel selection and food selection is rather spotty just like those other OS appear to have more user customization and less of a "walled garden" approach. Much like iOS, everything at DW is rigidly controlled, more expensive, and the coasters aren't as big, but I can easily observe at all times that I am being taken care of by an outfit that is dedicated to making sure I'm delighted during my entire stay. So if Disney decides to take out the fast pass system and institute some sort of wireless reservation system for the rides, I'm not going to run around screaming "Give me back my fastpass!" like the lunatic fringe that gets all worked up every time Apple so much as hints at changing OSX. Change is good and I'd rather have those changes being made by a company that cares about whether or not I like their product.
I watched the entire panel discussion and I don't think the sky is falling on OS X and neither do any of the panelists. I'm glad that video was linked here as it adds value to this otherwise alarmist thread.
I may not agree with everything Apple does, but I do agree with their approach to providing a near flawless end to end user experience. I know this is a bit of a reach but it reminds me of the difference between going to Disney World versus going to Cedar Point. Sure I can ride bigger coasters at "the Point", but the hotel selection and food selection is rather spotty just like those other OS appear to have more user customization and less of a "walled garden" approach. Much like iOS, everything at DW is rigidly controlled, more expensive, and the coasters aren't as big, but I can easily observe at all times that I am being taken care of by an outfit that is dedicated to making sure I'm delighted during my entire stay. So if Disney decides to take out the fast pass system and institute some sort of wireless reservation system for the rides, I'm not going to run around screaming "Give me back my fastpass!" like the lunatic fringe that gets all worked up every time Apple so much as hints at changing OSX. Change is good and I'd rather have those changes being made by a company that cares about whether or not I like their product.
I watched the entire panel discussion and I don't think the sky is falling on OS X and neither do any of the panelists. I'm glad that video was linked here as it adds value to this otherwise alarmist thread.
----------------------
No rant meant toward you in my reply below and this thread was not meant, by me, anyway, to be "alarmist" as you said above
I assume you're not a Java developer, right?
If you were, you'd see that you can't even debug a Java application in Eclipse without first becoming an Apple developer and agreeing to, in full, an onerous multi-multi-multi-....-page agreement - which you have no ability to modify as you see fit (Apple: take it or leave it).
The debugging issue seems to be a missing JDK jar file from the standard Java download that you can only, apparently, get if you're an "Apple Developer".
My experience has, sadly, been far from perfect -- at least with work related application development.
I make my living writing software. As good as the Mac platform should be for Java (THE #1 language on the planet), Apple appears to have made Java a deprecated language in favor of its own preference (Objective C).
Therefore, I have to do actual "work" in Windows. Great (NOT).
Had I known all this before I bought the Mac, I would not have.
(My Windows friends will get a real kick out of this...., but hey, they're too busy actually getting work done!)
I now probably going to find somebody who just wants a cute machine (my mac) and who wants whatever 10.7 has coming.
The Mac is a great machine, and it's NEVER CRASHED. But, for the special things I need to do (like Java development and running some programs), it's just not there for me.
Java may not even exist in 10.7 requiring a yet-to-be-identified company to pick up the ball.
I'll probably just get a Windows laptop. I won't enjoy Windows like I enjoy the Mac (10.6, anyway), but at least I'll get my work done without all the stress of things not working for NO GOOD REASON.
And, there are lots of programs that only run on Windows that I miss (and due to Apple's relatively small "PC" market share may never be on the Mac).
Thanks for your note.
- M
Last edited:
Soon 2 year after OSX Lion. Are we happy?
Times goes fast and i swallowed deep and installed OSX Lion eight months ago when i brought a new MacBookPro. Today i am so happy i let my other Macs continue running 10.6.8.
My history with Mac.
I brought my first Macintosh 128 where the operating system 1.0 come on a 400 kb floppy. I still have the disk. From this point Apple had some problem with the OS i think it was version 6 or 7 that Apple had to totally rewrite from the beginning. From the switch to 32bit, and then to Intel from Motorola processors was just so smooth. Amazing work from the Apple guys. Apple has time after time proved to me that they are to trust and they do a professional work. That was the past 25 years.
Now its different
OSX 10.7... Lion is a mess. YES both in GUI, programming and what the hell, lets delete some old things that has been in a Mac since the start. Yes i talk about the "Save as..." There is so many many things that just sucks so listing them here i am afraid the server will go down.
I hav now downgraded from my Lion experience to 10.6.8 on all my 5 Macs. Maybe in the future i will update to 11.2. This time Apple went to far out in nowhere.
Thats from my heart opinion.
Times goes fast and i swallowed deep and installed OSX Lion eight months ago when i brought a new MacBookPro. Today i am so happy i let my other Macs continue running 10.6.8.
My history with Mac.
I brought my first Macintosh 128 where the operating system 1.0 come on a 400 kb floppy. I still have the disk. From this point Apple had some problem with the OS i think it was version 6 or 7 that Apple had to totally rewrite from the beginning. From the switch to 32bit, and then to Intel from Motorola processors was just so smooth. Amazing work from the Apple guys. Apple has time after time proved to me that they are to trust and they do a professional work. That was the past 25 years.
Now its different
OSX 10.7... Lion is a mess. YES both in GUI, programming and what the hell, lets delete some old things that has been in a Mac since the start. Yes i talk about the "Save as..." There is so many many things that just sucks so listing them here i am afraid the server will go down.
I hav now downgraded from my Lion experience to 10.6.8 on all my 5 Macs. Maybe in the future i will update to 11.2. This time Apple went to far out in nowhere.
Thats from my heart opinion.
Your eight month MacBook Pro old should be able to run Snow Leopard actually, if it's the early 2011 or late 2011 model.
Maybe
That can be the reason i dont know but it come with Lion installed brand new. So you mean you should not install Lion on a Mac older than early 2011?
That can be the performance reason. But it has nothing to do with the Messy everything else. Sorry to say.
OT
That can be the reason i dont know but it come with Lion installed brand new. So you mean you should not install Lion on a Mac older than early 2011?
That can be the performance reason. But it has nothing to do with the Messy everything else. Sorry to say.
OT
Which model of MacBook Pro do you have? You can find that out in System Information.
I'm planning to stick with 10.6.8 until a grid based Spaces is returned and Full-Screen with multiple monitors is fixed.
I also don't like the loss of "Save As..." Though it did return as a keystroke in ML.
Plus, I don't like the limited control over Resume, Versions and AutoSave.
I also don't like the loss of "Save As..." Though it did return as a keystroke in ML.
Plus, I don't like the limited control over Resume, Versions and AutoSave.