Stop telling those who are not happy to get a Dell!!!

[jxyama]

i think a lot of people throw that "if you don't like apple, fine, go get a dell" line because there were some trolls who come here and post one message saying "oh, i really want a MAC but i played with G3 Ibook that costs $1000 but unless it does my photoshop filter in less time than my HT P4 desktop i have, it's overpriced and i'm gonna go get a dell instead." type of threads...

yes, some do throw that line about dell being pretty much a Mac zealot. and that is annoying...

 

[beefcake]

To me, the zealots are not true Mac "fans." It's very easy to claim to support a company when you blind yourself to all their faults. I thought MacWorld was a huge letdown. I'm not in the market for a new iPod, and I have no desire to pick up new hardware or software, but one day I will and I want it to be as cutting edge as possible.

Sometimes Apple drives me crazy, like when I walk into the store to buy screen wipes because my Powerbooks keys are rubbing my screen, then walk out of the store with $25 less in my wallet and a stupid bungee cord bag "designed in California." Sorry, but I just can't help but feel like $5 went to the bag.

As much as some of us gripe here, nearly all of us did choose to buy a Mac over the myriad of Windows machines. Maybe if posters like eDesign modified every Apple gripe post with a parallel Windows gripe section, there would be less flak, but that wouldn't be very practical.

 

[Westside guy]

Following up jxyama's thoughts...

When the substance of someones initial complaints and rebuttal followups seems to boil down to "It won't run all my Windows apps out of the box, and I must have every game on the planet" then I think it's a completely justifiable comment. And we do see that occasionally. You know, "why is the close button in the wrong corner, it screws me up" sorts of posts where people seem to basically not be happy because OS X isn't Windows XP (Lord knows why they apparently want it to be, but that's another topic).

However I concur that when "just go buy a Dell" is used, as it often is, as a euphemism for "JUST SHUT UP" it is rather lame.

 

[agreenster]

LOL this happens after EVERY MacWorld keynote.

Yeah, I was dissapointed with MWSF as well, but everyone knows updated PowerMacs and Powerbooks are coming soon, so keep your pants on.

Apple still doesn't suck.

 

[hulugu]

Conversation boils down to....

Gripe, gripe, gripe.

But, I disagree—

Zealot!

I'm kidding, but Apple is not a religious experience, however it is okay to like the company and to be invested in it. Tts actually very human to do so, and especially human considering we have tied our computing fates to them. If Apple fails we'll have to make the choice between Linux or Windows, neither of which we feel any particular grace for. So the stakes are higher than they would be for our hapless Dell user who could simply buy a Toshiba and whose experience wouldn't change very much.
However, don't tell anyone to get a Dell, that's just simply bad advice, if they're not happy with Apple. Tell them to be a consumer, buy it if they want it, watch it if they're not ready, ignore it if they don't want it.
Furthermore, the iPod-mini is a neat little device, I wish it were cheaper, but considering it holds 8x as much as a 150.00 Rio flash player, I don't think it's totally out of bounds. But, I wouldn't buy one now because I think the price will drop once enough mini-drives have been made, just as it did with the first iPod.
Also, what about Xgrid, the G5 Xserve, and Garage Band?
Yeah, it sucks that iPhoto will start to cost and I'm not sure if I will buy iLife because I don't have a DVD-R, so iDVD is useless, I don't play music, so while I think Garage Band is cool, also useless for me, and iMovie has never been for me because I don't have a DV camera. But, iTunes and iPhoto are my favorite programs, so maybe I'll just wait to get iLife when I get either a new Mac or a DV camera.
However, I'm not going to be pissed about it.
Also, Apple has started to move away from product announcements during Macworld and MacExpo, so I would expect to see some things throughout the year.
Also, I can't remember who posted it, but a .2Ghz jump wouldn't be enough, I think, to release a new G5. Apple might wait until it gets closer to 3.0 which they will soon anyway.
As for the iMac, PB, etc. the G5 is coming into those machines, but there are some serious engineering hurdles, the fact that they crammed it into the 1U of the Xserve, it a very good sign they're coming.
So, patience.
Call me a Zealot, I'll call you a Roman.

 

[TimDaddy]

I was once on the phone with Toyota's customer support center. I was complaining about the way a dealership had treated me. The customer support rep wasn't much better. I told him that I was very disappointed, and that an Accord was just as good as a Camry. There was no great compelling reason for me to stick with Toyota. His response: "Fine, buddy. Go getcha a Honda. I'll still have my job tomorrow!" You know, if not for my generous employee discount on Toyotas (which I did't tell him about ), I would have gone and gotten a Honda based on that one statement from a Toyota rep.
I hope nobody here that tells people to get a Dell actually work for Apple.

 

[iJon]

Re: Stop telling those who are not happy to get a Dell!!!

Originally posted by edesignuk
To make money!

we know that, and you are mad about them charging for iphoto now, for 49 dollars for 5 awesome programs. now you need to pick which side you want, your mad and you want them to make money, pick one.

iJon

 

[edesignuk]

Re: Re: Stop telling those who are not happy to get a Dell!!!

Originally posted by iJon
we know that, and you are mad about them charging for iphoto now, for 49 dollars for 5 awesome programs. now you need to pick which side you want, your mad and you want them to make money, pick one.

iJon

Yes, they do need to make money. But, starting to charge for something that was previously free is not a good way to go about doing it IMO. I don't have to pick one

Release some decent hardware, make it compete with offerings in the Wintel world and you (should) sell more. My god, how many people are sitting there with their credit cards right now ready to by a new Apple LCD, PowerMac G5 rev2. PowerBook G5, iMac G5, all that money they are not making because they take for ****ing ever to release anything. It drives me mad!

Before when we were stuck with Moto there was a reason for the s-l-o-w develpoments. Now there is no excuse (appart from the PB G5, which of course is understandable) why they cannot compete again, they have the G5, use it. Get updated LCD's out (how old are these things now???).

 

[Grimace]

Apple has moved away from releasing a ton of new products at MacWorld - the new products will come in the next month or so.

Remember LAST YEAR??? Every friggin Tuesday there was something new.

Stop crying, get used to the new format.

 

[jayscheuerle]

Re: Conversation boils down to....

Originally posted by hulugu
If Apple fails we'll have to make the choice between Linux or Windows, neither of which we feel any particular grace for.

Sure, but we'd make our choice and end up being reluctantly content and equally productive within a short time, except for the hours wasted perusing sites dedicated to the greatness of what was Mac, where we'd reminisce to the point of OSX becoming legendary and painted with a history far more forgiving than it actually deserves. (See Commodore 64).

Seeing that the only program I want to run that my machine can't is Panther, I don't see myself switching to Wintel except out of sour grapes- and that's like shooting myself in the foot. I prefer Jaguar over XP. Heck, I'll probably prefer it to Longdong, whenever that knob of an OS ever rears its ugly head. Still, it seems painfully obvious that Mac users hold Apple in a much higher regard than Apple holds its users. With single-digit marketshare, you'd think Apple would handle its user base with a bit more respect and care, but perhaps success with the ITMS and articles in TIME have gone to their collective (right, Steve) head.

End of the day, it's just a box that I spend too many hours in front of separating me from my life. If I'm going to be stuck in front of one for so long, I'm glad Apple's around, but I'd have no problem making do if I had to. - j

 

[hulugu]

Re: Re: Conversation boils down to....

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
...Longdong, whenever that knob of an OS ever rears its ugly head...

God that's funny.

 

[Kwyjibo]

I started thinking about speed bumps in relation to expos, and i've realized a few things.

In the past year or saw, apple has not simply speed bumped computers at big expos. They release new machines, new products, talk about the ipod but they don't simply say this line is going up to 1.5 ghz ... they do it in the weeks following on the infamous tuesday updates ... look at the last year , the only computer to be released at big expos were the 12" and 17" powerbooks and the g5's the rest were released over the year without an event ... even the iBook going to G4 ... new 15" powerboook, redesigned 12" powerbook ... all not at the huge expos ... maybe your problem is your putting way to much stock in the expos which apple explicitley said they want to move away from

 

[edesignuk]

Originally posted by Kwyjibo
... maybe your problem is your putting way to much stock in the expos which apple explicitley said they want to move away from

Maybe, I've had enough of this whole thing now, I'm probably driving you all mad with my views and god knows you're driving me mad (not you Kwyjibo)

Back to the beginning...if I or anyone say they are not happy with what Apple are offering...please, do me a favor, don't respond with "Get a Dell"

 

[jxyama]

Re: Re: Re: Stop telling those who are not happy to get a Dell!!!

Originally posted by edesignuk
Yes, they do need to make money. But, starting to charge for something that was previously free is not a good way to go about doing it IMO. I don't have to pick one

Release some decent hardware, make it compete with offerings in the Wintel world and you (should) sell more. My god, how many people are sitting there with their credit cards right now ready to by a new Apple LCD, PowerMac G5 rev2. PowerBook G5, iMac G5, all that money they are not making because they take for ****ing ever to release anything. It drives me mad!

Before when we were stuck with Moto there was a reason for the s-l-o-w develpoments. Now there is no excuse (appart from the PB G5, which of course is understandable) why they cannot compete again, they have the G5, use it. Get updated LCD's out (how old are these things now???).

turning profit takes more than just selling the best you got...

G5 iMac will sell better than G4 iMac if similarly spec'ed and priced, yes, no kidding. but how will G5 iMac affect the sale of G5 PM? G4 eMac?

there's an "excuse." it's called product differentiation and catering to the market. apple has business people figuring this stuff out and compared to a few years ago, they seem to be doing ok.

if you are mad about iLife being not-free, then make your statement and not buy it. enough people follow your strategy and it will hurt apple's bottom line and they will change. but asking for previously free software to be again made free (for no other reason than just saying "because it was free before") so you can have it but not pay for them, you have absolutely no ground to affect apple. all you are asking for is free stuff. why should apple care because you are neither a potential paying customer nor a disgruntled former user that may get away.

i realize it's a matter of perspective. i mean no offense, because for every one person like me - who uses and appreciates iphoto so much that i'd pay $50 for iphoto alone - there is someone like you who'd like things the way they were. believe me, i'd rather get iphoto free than for $50, no kidding. but i don't think apple dropped the ball too much. $50 is *probably* very reasonable for most people.

EDIT: since you asked... lastly, if you don't want a mac and iLife, get a dell with adobe photo album!!

 

[edesignuk]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Stop telling those who are not happy to get a Dell!!!

Originally posted by jxyama
turning profit takes more than just selling the best you got...

Of course, but having the best you've got is the first step.

G5 iMac will sell better than G4 iMac if similarly spec'ed and priced, yes, no kidding. but how will G5 iMac affect the sale of G5 PM? G4 eMac?

there's an "excuse." it's called product differentiation and catering to the market.

For Apple keeping "product differentiation" means lagging further and further behind. Holding one under powered, over priced line back, to keep another equaly under powered, over priced line look better is insane.

but asking for previously free software to be again made free (for no other reason than just saying "because it was free before") so you can have it but not pay for them, you have absolutely no ground to affect apple. all you are asking for is free stuff. why should apple care because you are neither a potential paying customer nor a disgruntled former user that may get away.

I don't expect Apple to change their mind, and I'm not asking them to, it's pointless. They should never have given away something for free then turned around and started charging for it in the first place.

A constant argument people use when comparing a PC to a Mac is the "great free software you get with os x"...this isn't going to be much of an argument anymore

I didn't realize just how many people had such a blind faith for Apple, amazing... SJ should be ecstatic!

 

[jxyama]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stop telling those who are not happy to get a Dell!!!

Originally posted by edesignuk
A constant argument people use when comparing a PC to a Mac is the "great free software you get with os x"...this isn't going to be much of an argument anymore

this part, i absolutely agree. every new mac user should have os x and iLife - which they do because every new Mac will ship with iLife.

the question i'm waiting to find an answer for is whether the future OS X upgrades will include updated iLife or not. if iLife and OS X upgrades are separated, i wouldn't exactly get mad - since i'll get both of them anyway - but i'd be a little disappointed because, as you said, it would make one of the great selling points of a Mac - that you get all the great iLife apps free - obsolete.

 

[avus]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stop telling those who are not happy to get a Dell!!!

Originally posted by edesignuk

I didn't realize just how many people had such a blind faith for Apple, amazing... SJ should be ecstatic!

The latest and greatest hardwares will get old in three months. I get mad that when geeks only seek instant gratification like junkies seek their highs.

I was moved by how enthusiastic Steve Jobs was when he was describing Garageband. You can disagree all you want, but he genuinely believes that it is the software that creates something memorable, that stands the test of time.

The blind faith you are describing is just as annoying and damaging as the short-sighted and inflated expectation of its user base.

 

[bousozoku]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stop telling those who are not happy to get a Dell!!!

Originally posted by jxyama
this part, i absolutely agree. every new mac user should have os x and iLife - which they do because every new Mac will ship with iLife.

the question i'm waiting to find an answer for is whether the future OS X upgrades will include updated iLife or not. if iLife and OS X upgrades are separated, i wouldn't exactly get mad - since i'll get both of them anyway - but i'd be a little disappointed because, as you said, it would make one of the great selling points of a Mac - that you get all the great iLife apps free - obsolete.

Well, that's like the included 3rd party software, as well. Is there a perpertual upgrade licence to any of that? Of course not. Some of the publishers don't even give discounts for having their software installed on the machine.

Everyone wants free but it just doesn't work that way.

 

[manitoubalck]

Re: Stop telling those who are not happy to get a Dell!!!

Originally posted by edesignuk
Apple are a large corporate company, who like every other company have a goal. To make money! It’s true, they are not your best friend, they are not perfect, and there is no need to go on the defensive when someone complains that they haven’t delivered the goods.

[/rambling]

This is usually said in respones to something microsoft does, however it's glad to see some mac users get the 'real world' picture of the company.

I think the G5Xserve is a big release, along with the 90nm cores. However the consumer and education ranges are lagging back in 1999, and it's time they did sdomething about it, and until they do I'm staying on the AMD side of the three way fence.

 

[hamfist]

what a winer....

 

[edesignuk]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stop telling those who are not happy to get a Dell!!!

Originally posted by avus
The latest and greatest hardwares will get old in three months.

No kidding, well I never knew that So the answer is, of course, to hardly ever update anything then right? That way nothing will ever get old. I don't think it is at all unreasonable to expect Apple to start delivering on the hardware side after so long struggling along with Moto.
They now have the technology (thanks IBM ), they need to get their butts in gear! There's a lot of cathing up to do.

I hope that you are all right and that they will announce updates in the next few weeks, that would be great. I'd be pleased to hear it, and I'd be pleased for the people waiting on new machines before they buy. Finally I might be able to argue the case for Mac over PC to my friends, right now unless you're gonna spend big bucks (dual g5) there's no contest.

 

[edesignuk]

Originally posted by hamfist
what a winer....

what a spectacular contribution to the debate...

 

[jxyama]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Stop telling those who are not happy to get a Dell!!!

Originally posted by bousozoku
Well, that's like the included 3rd party software, as well. Is there a perpertual upgrade licence to any of that? Of course not. Some of the publishers don't even give discounts for having their software installed on the machine.

Everyone wants free but it just doesn't work that way.

no, i didn't care as much about the "free" part, as other may. i'll glad pay for iLife this time and will probably continue to do so. i like them very much and consider them well worth the price.

i'm more interested in apple maintaining the attitude that iLife apps are considered an essential part of the Mac OS X experience, and not just another "third party software." i felt such was the statement they were making when panther included all iApps (iDVD being an exception because it was supplied with Superdrive, not necessarily OS X.) so i'm hoping they will keep it up.

i imagine they will bundle iLife with future OS X updates by tacking on a bit of money. maybe new OS X updates will be $150 instead but include the latest iLife...

 

[jayb2000]

Yeah, buy an HP instead

Sorry, I just don't like dell.

 

[cwedl]

Let me re-write how the keynote should have gone: Please tell me if you think otherwise.

1) New iLife 4.0 - iPhoto - Free, iTunes - Free. - download in an hour or so.

2)Sorrys guys because we have added more functions to iMovie, iDVD We have sell it to you as a CD, $39, but you also get GarageBand as well which is also to big to download.

3)iPod mini - 4GB all different colours - $199.

4) G5 powermac upgrade - 1.8ghz, 2.0ghz dual , 2.2ghz dual - this will give them another change to upgrade before the summers - 3.0ghz.