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Stop the fanboyism, please!
- Thread starter yg17
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With the best will in the world, our mods can't be expected to read through every single post on the site to catch such epithets. They are volunteers doing this in their own time and for the most part they catch stuff.
However, if anyone does see anything that they think is inappropriate, then using the
So far as general Microsoft bashing goes, a little in humour can be amusing. Too much when it's patently not true or over-exaggerated, is not.
I actually have noticed an increase, and I completely agree. Why do we want to perpetuate the stereotype?
Moderators are volunteer and they cannot be expected to catch every little "issue" on any message board. Users have to use common sense when posting on boards and readers have to realize message boards require some maturity to be successful.
Big Brother shouldn't have to watch over everyone
Big Brother shouldn't have to watch over everyone
I haven't noticed an increase, but the anti-MS is rampant and unjust. Or is it? When people mention Al Qaeda, is it wrong to immediately respond, "Those ****ing *******s! **** them, I hope they all burn in Hell!"? I think not. And face it, with Windows, MS basically 9/11'd the computer world.
I think I hear more "OMG Apple what do you think you're doing, introducing [X] product! That's soooo not going to sell," and then rampant and unjust criticizing of Apple products, than fanboyism. I know I do it. It's fun.
Basically, what I'm saying in a tactful manner is that anti-MS isn't necessarilly Apple fanboyism.
I think I hear more "OMG Apple what do you think you're doing, introducing [X] product! That's soooo not going to sell," and then rampant and unjust criticizing of Apple products, than fanboyism. I know I do it. It's fun.
Basically, what I'm saying in a tactful manner is that anti-MS isn't necessarilly Apple fanboyism.
After having 2 360's break on me, their utter refusal to replace my mouse (despite it being DOA and fully within warranty), the big **** up they did with Vista I think I'm within my rights to slag them off
I suppose my 360-PC controller is working fine though (minus the absolutely turdish and useless dpad).
Whereas I've yet to have any problem with Apple at all. That said I've only bought their products for 4 years.
And I don't see Windows as the 11/9 of the computer world for it's faults XP is a pretty good OS. It's leaps ahead of Vista at least.
I suppose my 360-PC controller is working fine though (minus the absolutely turdish and useless dpad).
Whereas I've yet to have any problem with Apple at all. That said I've only bought their products for 4 years.
And I don't see Windows as the 11/9 of the computer world
for it's faults XP is a pretty good OS. It's leaps ahead of Vista at least.
Wow. Just wow. Comparing an operating system to a terrorist attack that killed thousands of people is tactful?
Unbelievable.
I've been seeing a lot more of everything on these boards over the last couple of years, in direct proportion to the growth of the MacRumors community. Face it, these boards have become less the refuge for dedicated Mac enthusiasts it once was, and more of a cross-section of the population as a whole. On top of this, the moderation rules are not enforced as vigorously as they once were, presumably as a product of the increased volume of posting. If discussions go off the rails regularly (and they do now, often), and nobody intervenes, then the quality of the conversation will inevitably spiral downwards.
I agree with the point that the problem here isn't too much "fanboyism" but with too many people prepared to use that pejorative term at the drop of a hat. It's no more legitimate in a discussion to call someone a "fanboy" than to call them a moron. Personal insults are supposed to be against the rules here, but it's a rule hardly enforced anymore.
I agree with the point that the problem here isn't too much "fanboyism" but with too many people prepared to use that pejorative term at the drop of a hat. It's no more legitimate in a discussion to call someone a "fanboy" than to call them a moron. Personal insults are supposed to be against the rules here, but it's a rule hardly enforced anymore.
Sorry if what I say has been posted before, I havent read everything...
I disagree, there is norhing healthier than some nice Micro$oft bashing
Besides, even Apple do it themselves! (See all the Apple ads and the icon for a Windows computer on a network in Leopard).
Plus, its all very funny and its just a joke most of the time anyway!
EDIT: Oh yeah, one more thing, this is a APPLE FORUM!!! There are going to be a few "fanboys", arnt there?
ANOTHER EDIT: One more thing (notice the Steve Jobs reference?): I agree with Mac OS X Ocelot.
I disagree, there is norhing healthier than some nice Micro$oft bashing
Besides, even Apple do it themselves! (See all the Apple ads and the icon for a Windows computer on a network in Leopard).
Plus, its all very funny and its just a joke most of the time anyway!
EDIT: Oh yeah, one more thing, this is a APPLE FORUM!!! There are going to be a few "fanboys", arnt there?
ANOTHER EDIT: One more thing (notice the Steve Jobs reference?): I agree with Mac OS X Ocelot.
I have to agree.
I like and use both operating systems (but prefer freeBSD over both). Most experiences with Mac users have made me almost embarrassed to be one myself.
Granted I only read a fraction of the posts on this forum, but I see plenty of criticism about Apple whenever people are waiting for a Mac product update, or something similar. I haven't noticed too much "fanboyism" to be honest, though like I said, I don't read everything that's posted.
Regular DVDs are inferior products to Blu Ray DVDs, but it doesn't mean everyone uses them. Though OSX may be easier to use, it takes a lot to switch. And, for well versed PC users, it takes a lot to relearn shortcuts and little helpful time savers.
And some people just can't afford Apple. Some don't need it -- If all someone does is browse the web and work in Microsoft Office, a PC is better. Not because of the OS or anything, but because you can get a computer, a monitor, a keyboard and a mouse for under $500.
That's just disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself. That's low....very, very low.
As long as moderation rules don't curb the opportunity to speak one's peace in a civil manner I agree. I'm still trying to contemplate what the purpose of many of these posts is. Some seem like troll-bait. For me, I've never understood that rivalry but I must confess I'm from a country where most people just don't care. And perhaps out of luck, who knows, I've never met any negative vibes about me being a Mac user. Most people like the design and if they comment at all it is in the lines of: "no virus on that machine".
Sometimes I think there's a group of Mac users that revels their so-called underdog position. Well, this might change within a couple of years because even the most main stream European electronics department stores are selling Macs in a special and very 'hip' section of their stores. Which gives me the opportunity to strut around like the git that knows
all
I agree; the word fanboy should be treated as a personal insult.
And you're right, it's also used inappropriately. It's not uncommon for someone with a legitimate claim to be labeled as a fanboy, just because someone else disagrees with their opinion. Granted, there are some cases where the fanboy label is probably quite apt, but rather than calling them a name, they should simply be ignored (and reported, if applicable).
See, what I think you guys are missing... and in most cases it is because you are coming from a platform that was never in any danger of disappearing, is the fact that the biggest danger to a minority platform is apathy on the part of the users.
If software and hardware makers (and even the base company behind the platform itself) don't think that the users care whether or not the platform survives, they stop expending energy on that platform.
The Mac platform (before Linux took off) was unique in that the user base was unwilling to let it be marginalized by the rest of the computing world in general.
Now, if you don't care if you use either Macs or Windows or something else, of course you aren't going to care if any of these platforms disappear. For those of us who care what environment we use, short term successes are rather pointless if there still exist a threat that we could lose our platform of choice.
Frankly, the influx in apathetic users is far more dangerous to the health of the platform than being a small minority. It has given the makers of software and hardware people within the Mac community to point at and say "see, they don't really care one way or the other" and then they'll stop making things for Macs. Short of Macs becoming the majority platform, the only safe bet for the Mac community is strong vocal advocacy.
Now, if you guys who couldn't care less which platform environment you use are uncomfortable with this fact-of-Mac-life, then go on to something else. Most of you guys are only here for the fad of Apple stuff anyways, and few of you will actually become core users (who will continue to use Macs even after the fad wares off). When something shinier gets dangled in front of your noses, you'll be off chasing those things and completely forget that you ever used Macs at all.
If software and hardware makers (and even the base company behind the platform itself) don't think that the users care whether or not the platform survives, they stop expending energy on that platform.
The Mac platform (before Linux took off) was unique in that the user base was unwilling to let it be marginalized by the rest of the computing world in general.
Now, if you don't care if you use either Macs or Windows or something else, of course you aren't going to care if any of these platforms disappear. For those of us who care what environment we use, short term successes are rather pointless if there still exist a threat that we could lose our platform of choice.
Frankly, the influx in apathetic users is far more dangerous to the health of the platform than being a small minority. It has given the makers of software and hardware people within the Mac community to point at and say "see, they don't really care one way or the other" and then they'll stop making things for Macs. Short of Macs becoming the majority platform, the only safe bet for the Mac community is strong vocal advocacy.
Now, if you guys who couldn't care less which platform environment you use are uncomfortable with this fact-of-Mac-life, then go on to something else. Most of you guys are only here for the fad of Apple stuff anyways, and few of you will actually become core users (who will continue to use Macs even after the fad wares off). When something shinier gets dangled in front of your noses, you'll be off chasing those things and completely forget that you ever used Macs at all.
i think it's funny that i've been accused of being a "fanboy" by someone that visits these forums. of course when i "attacked" him with reason, and something worth arguing over, he ran away.
but anyways, i am loyal to apple. not just for the operating system, but for the hardware and the good service that i've experienced.
i don't think PC people are stupid or whatever. i don't think i'm better than anyone else
but anyways, i am loyal to apple. not just for the operating system, but for the hardware and the good service that i've experienced.
i don't think PC people are stupid or whatever. i don't think i'm better than anyone else
I completely disagree, and like others am a bit upset at your use of the "fanboy" term at all. I see much more Apple-bashing than I do pro Apple posts if ... (and this is a very important if), you just look at "fanboy" posts in general.
IMO the difference between a "fanboy" post and a regular one is that it is, or may be, either unreasoned or based on no facts at all. People seem to continually take any strong advocacy of Apple as "fanboyism" when in fact a lot of the time these posts are reasoned arguments based on the fact that the Apple product in question is better, or better designed etc.
That is not fanboyism.
Fanboyism is just "I like Apple" or "I hate Microsoft" with no reference to anything at all, and while there is always a bit of that, I don't see a particular increase lately.
I do see an increase in general griping and unreasonable behaviour by disgruntled ex windows users who are just looking for a problem or a fight however.
So, the question that most people ask is how does this strong advocacy help the community?
Quite simple actually, throughout most of the Macs life it has been a minority platform, and developers of applications will (when all things are equal) develop for what they see as the largest market for their products. Vocal Mac users who complained to developers about slow updates or no updates for applications forced developers to continue writing for the Mac platform back when PC pundits had predicted the end of the platform. The old adage "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" actually works quite well in the computer community.
...
This is a Mac community site, so if you don't like Mac cheerleaders, maybe you should consider being somewhere else. I don't care for Windows or PCs... and so I don't visit Windows or PC forums. And while majority platforms aren't in any danger of disappearing, I sure wouldn't expect that Windows users in a Windows forum to not advocact what they like amongst themselves.
Actually, the real problem here is not advocacy of Macs, it is people who are new to the platform who think that it only became worthy when they decided to join. And that their previous opinion of Macs and Mac users were completely justified, but now that they are here something magically has transformed the platform.
But someone did make a good point about the moderators stepping forward more often... and I firmly believe they should as well. I would think that the use of terms like fanboy (and all it's derivative spellings) should be considered personal attacks and that such terms have no place in civil discussion. So yes, I would like to see moderators restrict or eliminate the use of such derogatory epithets throughout the site.
Excellent post. And I fully agree that the very term "fanboy" is derogatory and insulting and should be treated as a personal attack.
Whaaa? Have you been so focused on your Giants' upcoming beating (I jest!) that you've missed 2 straight weeks of non-stop attacks on Apple for the MBA? Or the howling over the lack of backwards compatibility of the 8800 GT? Or the delay of the MBP? Or the upgrade fee on the itouch? Or any one of a number of other "issues," real and imagined?
Another great post. Strong advocacy is not "fanboyism" when it's based on reasoned arguments. IMO there are many reasons that OS X is vastly better than Windows and I'm not shy about saying so, but it's not "just because." (for the record, I run XP on my macbook, and it's not really that bad. Very usable. But that's a long way from the sparkling experience OS X is.)
And I'll say again, the number of attacks on Apple is what have increased by leaps and bounds recently. These days it seems like Apple can do nothing right. Every release is met by howls of disappointment and complaints, some reasonable some ridiculous.
I believe in Apple Fanboyism, but to a certain extent. Intelligent fanboys I like and am one. The kind that backs up there claims. but ones who post stuff like
"APPLE RULZ!11!!1 MICROSPLOOCH SUCKS!!!!!11!!!!!"
"APPLE RULZ!11!!1 MICROSPLOOCH SUCKS!!!!!11!!!!!"
I think I see a lot more Apple-bashing, than Apple-loving on MacRumors. Honestly I do.
Oh and, the word fanboy (and its variations) should be banned
You are right about the bashing. I'm on the fence about whether fanboy is an epithet or just a semi-epithet (like redneck, and liberal). I dunno. Ideas of acceptable semi-public or public language evolve, but "acceptability" tends to move like the tide.
Someone tried to turn Merry Christmas into an epithet in 2006. In 2007, there were more shrugs and inclination to say whatever you'd prefer to hear yourself. But there is another tier of older epithets rarely considered acceptable. I don't think "fanboy" is there yet. Feels like it sometimes.
We should not have to treat Apple or Microsoft as if they are taboo icons. It's funny, really. We're talking hardware and software here, and consumer choice. And yet I don't want to hear someone diss my new machines or the ones I most fondly remember.
hey ol' buddy how ya beennot much has changed here on my end.
no i don't think she's coming back,
we better not get into that...
let's talk about baseball
talk a little small talk
there's gotta be a good joke that you've heard.
let's talk about NASCARs, old Hollywood movie stars
let's talk about anything, anything in this world
but politics, religion and her....
politics can start a fight...
religion's hard to know who's right...
and one more topic I won't touch
and that one's her: it hurts too much.
(Sammy Kershaw's title track of album "Politics, Religion and Her")
Macs and Apple are special from way back to lots of people on what is after all still a Mac community discussion board. The intel-inside evolution comes with some growing pains for such boards. Feelings can run high quickly, even with ordinary smilies plus the endearing
and and options.Being in a discussion forum can be a little or a lot like being in a bar. Now I don't care about trolls' feelings. And if someone's not a troll, most people back off and even apologize sincerely if they mistook some casual post as a swing for the fence. But switchers AND regulars, they probably just came for a beer but will throw a punch the third time someone disrespects a former or future girlfriend. She's somebody's daughter and anyway there's just a limit.
If you're a regular then you might get cut some slack by other regulars for most of whatever you say in some particular situation, or maybe you might get a big surprise sometime.
But if you're new and a tad careless or you come in looking for it? Then probably half the place just squint up a little and maybe shift around some, to get loosened up, since it might be time to leave soon... but the rest are reaching for their keys ready to get the dogs off the truck and whatever else feels right by time they get out there.
Throw "fanboy" into that mix right then and probably I'm out gettin' my dogs. I'll show you a couple of fanboys teach you how to spell it from a tree.
So Southernboy might be right about banning the term, even if sometimes I lack enough sense that I'd like to wear a shirt sez FANGIRL AND PROUD.