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Study Suggests AliveCor KardiaBand for Apple Watch Can Be Used With AI Algorithm to Detect High Potassium

RogerWilco said:
Right on schedule, another health "feature" rumor to stoke the share price. Far less grandiose than the :apple:Car rumors, but hey, whatever gets the job done.
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Right on schedule? When would be a more appropriate time to make an announcement (an announcement not made by Apple)?
 
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69Mustang said:
Why else would someone buy a kardiaband if they didn't have a reason for monitoring afib or potassium levels? Trying to gauge the value of the subscription for someone with no issue seems nonsensical. If you have no issue, why would you subscribe or buy the band. Sort of axiomatic.

The argument you're trying to make is an argument that doesn't need to be made.
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I would buy the band because Apple's heart monitor built in to the Apple Watch is mediocre. I don't care what the fan boys say, I've had two Apple Watches and my wife has had three. Heart monitor has been unreliable in all five Apple Watches. It does'nt often show correct pulse rate when exercising or just walking. Additionally, this band is cheaper than a trip to a cardiologist to find out if you may have an asymptomatic heart issue. But with annual subscription, this is a no go for me.
 
I have been suing the AliveCor system for a couple of years (the panel not the watch band). I am a heart failure patient so it provides some real service to me. I have been able to identify the issues I face while experiencing different sensations (PVC's, A-Fib, etc). That provides me with peace of mind now that I can understand it better.

I was "grandfathered" in for the recording and logging system, so very happy about that! Here is an example of one of my readings with the device showing a couple of issues (downward strokes are premature ventricular contractions, poor P waves, and inverted T waves)
 
I am using the AliveCor watch band with my Apple Watch. I really like the band, it continuously monitors and if it picks up irregularities in heart rhythm, it tells you to take a reading. I really do not like subscriptions but in this case I went ahead and paid the $99. When my heart is having issues, it is so nice to stop, take a reading to make sure I am OK. Luckily I have been in rhythm lately. It is very nice to be able to send several readings to my doctor so she can look at it. At times, I have extra beats and some irregularities in heart rhythm but it is nice to see that I am not in Afib. I have spent way too much time getting cardioverted and going through ablations to try and get my heart to cooperate. $99 is a small price to pay for peace of mind and not having to run back to my doctor when I know I am not feeling right. I have had the watch band for several months and have not run out of battery life yet. I am sure this will be an issue the older my watch gets. Once it does, I will replace the battery. I am using the latest version of the watch.
 
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This is actually very interesting. But unless you look at the actual study, you wouldn’t realize that this data is not from patients actually wearing the band/Apple Watch. They gave their software millions of old EKGs to read.
The really interesting part is their cutoff for hyperkalemia was 5.0 mmol/L. That is very very low for discernible EKG changes to be detected. Very sensitive (but not that specific).

“Data from patients seen at Mayo Clinic between 1994 and 2017 with a serum potassium acquired within 12 hours of an ECG were included in this IRB-approved study. Study data included 709,000 patients, 2.1 million ECGs and 4.0 million serum potassium values. Patients were split randomly into training (2/3) and testing (1/3) groups. A threshold of 5.0 mmol/L was used for hyperkalemia and false positives were eliminated by selecting for repeated positive tests, resulting in 20,196 positive and 2.0 million negative samples. An artificial intelligence (AI) algorithm utilizing a deep neural network was trained to detect hyperkalemia using only ECG leads I and II. Performance was evaluated on the testing group. An additional, prospective, independent testing dataset was also obtained in 10 patients undergoing hemodialysis. Each patient used an investigational version of a portable, AliveCor smartphone ECG device to acquire a 4-hour ECG recording during two separate dialysis sessions, with concurrent blood testing.”
 
Michael Goff said:
AI is supposedly in everything these days. I’ve given up on arguing about how none of those really use AI. It’s ML.
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Developing the algorithm through ML is done by utilising AI (one form of it, although admittedly not the Skynet-type), as opposed to trying to have a heureka moment and coming up with a mathematical formula.
 
omenatarhuri said:
Developing the algorithm through ML is done by utilising AI (one form of it, although admittedly not the Skynet-type), as opposed to trying to have a heureka moment and coming up with a mathematical formula.
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AI is the ability to think. ML is not AI.
 
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The general population does not need potassium monitoring. Unless you have a metabolic issue, kidney issue, or have a severe acute illness most people potassium remains within limits. While very clever in its development, will
Just serve to enhance people health paranoia.
 
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Reading through the previous posts I think there's some misunderstanding about the technology and what does what. And comments like "You have to subscribe to use the hardware?? Screw that!" are so out of place when discussing life and death issues.

My wife has paroxysmal (intermittent) Afib and a couple of years ago we invested in an AliveCor (or Kardia) EKG device that sits in a specially modified iPhone 6 case. Whenever she thinks she might be having an episode she can immediately take a one minute reading, the EKG appears on the iPhone display with diagnosis, and the EKG can be saved with notes for forwarding on to her EP (electrophysiologist). If there is an arrhythmia she can take Flecainide which helps her heart get back into sinus rythym.

The Kardia watch band is a further development of the original device. The band doesn't monitor anything 24/7 whilst on your wrist, it only takes EKGs when you active the Watch app. If you are always carrying your phone with the mobile EKG as well as wearing the Apple watch, there's no advantage buying the band. In these circumstances the band is only useful when you are separated from the iPhone.

We purchased the band anyway, but my wife found her skin reacted to the metals used, so we sent it back for a refund.

At the moment my wife only checks her EKG when she feels something might not be right and her fear is that she might be having 'silent episodes' which she isn't aware of. This is where the subscription service comes in. So the idea is that the pulse rate is constantly monitored using the standard Apple Watch sensors, the signals are sent off to Kardia, and the wearer is notified when something looks out of the ordinary and prompted to take a EKG reading.

Unfortunately the installation/implementation of the monitoring service is poorly documented by Kardia and it seems there's some conflict with Apple's own Activity Monitor so we don't have this bit working yet.

Must try to get to grips with this.
 
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and 1989 others said:
The general population does not need potassium monitoring. Unless you have a metabolic issue, kidney issue, or have a severe acute illness most people potassium remains within limits. While very clever in its development, will
Just serve to enhance people health paranoia.
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I disagree as lots of people have Atrial Fibulation but write it off as something else and by the time it’s diagnosed it’s when there has been a severe situation.

There will always be something feed paranoia in any type of situation however the goal is to have prevention.

As someone who suffers from Afib this is an amazing way to keep my symptoms in check and get help if needed.
 
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Keirasplace said:
It's a product to people who need it, not for you obviously...
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No, you missed my Full Disclosure post. I have atrial fibrillation, and worse, it's usually asymptomatic. Sadly, my experience with the Kardia Mobile gives me absolutely no confidence, and I'm not willing to give up the functionality of my Apple Watch simply to wear a marginally useful two-lead EKG.
 
BasicGreatGuy said:
For the most part, that is true. But like with most other electronic gadgets, there will be a very small percentage who buy and use the device without a known history.
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Unless physicians start "prescribing" it and health insurers start paying for it. Smart insurers would see huge economic advantage -- see earlier note from individual who was recently hospitalized with a-fib.
 
bekiil said:
Seriously considering buying the Apple Watch. But the battery...
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Maybe I can help you with managing the Apple Watch battery. I wanted the watch to last 24 hours so I could monitor sleep as well as awake times. Using the sensors, almost impossible. What works for my needs. Charging the watch to full charge just before bedtime. I take the Apple Watch off and begin the charge around 9pm. That time of evening very little need for recording in most days. By 10 pm the watch usually full charge. The interesting battery behavior, during 8 hours of normal sleep, watch only uses less then 10% of battery. The other 90% available for the rest of day until 9pm. Only time this routine fails, if sensors used extensively, long workout during the day. Then occasionally another hour might be needed. Perfect, no but for my use more then manageable. I have Apple Watch S3.
 
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Schizoid said:
Hey Siri, i think I'm having a heart attack... help!

...

"I found a number of restaurants that serve kelp..."
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Siri will just pass on the message that the ambulance has been called, nearest hospitals notified if the closest doesn’t not have room and your GP notified along with a select assigned family members.

“It seems you may be progressing into cardiac arrest, the EMT have been notified and are on the way, please confirm if you believe this is a false alarm...Y/N”

Monthly subscription similar to a 911 fee.
 
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