Study Suggests AliveCor KardiaBand for Apple Watch Can Be Used With AI Algorithm to Detect High Potassium

[wesk702]

This is very, very clever. The watch doesn't actually measure serum potassium (K+). The company suggests there is a correlation between high serum potassium and atrial fibrillation. The company's software "simply" monitors for changes in an EKG which correlate (91 to 94% of the time) with high serum potassium. This is very, very clever.

If the ekg reading is pretty accurate on the watch, and it sounds like it is, it can most likely pick up T wave changes which often is a marker of hyperkalemia( increased Potassium). Exciting stuff.
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Apple really needs to get some electronic data connection between the band and the watch body.

100% sure this is going to happen on a future model.
The you can start adding more sensors and perhaps even flexible batteries of the future into the bands.
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Well it's quite easy really.

You simply and gently slide these two items into your bottom hole, then the watch can communicate with these devices, now inside your body to get accurate readings!

I’d imagine getting silent notifications are the selling point of this.

 

[falainber]

So, what's the idea here? To wear 10000 watches/bands for each possible disease? Not sure this is very useful even if it works. Definitely not going to replace the annual physical exam.

 

[ipedro]

Apple made an incredible winning bet on a health focused smart watch and it’s going to propel them well beyond a trillion dollar company. Imagine every diabetic rushing to buy an AppleWatch. And that’s just one health target segment. Those with a propensity for heart disease are another huge demographic.

 

[JediZenMaster]

Siri’s response would be “Here’s what I found on the web for, ‘I think I’m having a heart attack help...’.”

That’s not funny at all. As for someone who had an episode of Afib so horrible that I couldn’t breathe because my chest was pounding that hard there is no joy in this.

If there was a downvote button you better believe I would be using it on you.

 

[avanpelt]

That’s not funny at all. As for someone who had an episode of Afib so horrible that I couldn’t breathe because my chest was pounding that hard there is no joy in this.

If there was a downvote button you better believe I would be using it on you.

I wasn’t making a joke. I was quite serious. If you depend on Siri to save your life, it’s very likely going to fail you unless you say exactly the right thing for it to actually summon help. Siri is an utter embarrassment.

 

[JediZenMaster]

I wasn’t making a joke. I was quite serious. If you depend on Siri to save your life, it’s very likely going to fail you unless you say exactly the right thing for it to actually summon help. Siri is an utter embarrassment.

Sorry my bad i thought it was you there was someone laughing at this and I quote you by accident. I got a little angry because this is a serious subject and folks are trying to make light humor out of it
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When and if you get something like cancer let me know and I’ll be sure to make jokes out of your condition as someone who has Afib there is nothing funny about it and it’s not a joke

 

[jw2002]

The general population does not need potassium monitoring. Unless you have a metabolic issue, kidney issue, or have a severe acute illness most people potassium remains within limits.

And at least here in the US, the American diet is low in potassium and high in sodium. Studies now suggest that a low potassium/sodium ratio is more strongly linked to cardiovascular disease than sodium alone.

https://academic.oup.com/advances/article/5/6/712/4558037

So making lots of people afraid of potassium could backfire just the way it did with dietary fat and the unhealthy consequences of the low fat / high carb diet craze.

 

[Robert.Walter]

Detection of initial onset is a good thing but I’m wondering if it also helps a person with a known afib issue manage it.

 

[Vjosullivan]

FDA approval for medical devices doesn't defer to yearly product releases. The amount of liability alone should scare Apple away from that idea. They received over 2 dozen lawsuits for a battery issue. Can you imagine the outrage over a medical snafu?

It wouldn't affect Apple unless they're actually making these medical claims. They simply shift any blame onto the KardiaBand.

 

[Dcastro]

This is very, very clever. The watch doesn't actually measure serum potassium (K+). The company suggests there is a correlation between high serum potassium and atrial fibrillation. The company's software "simply" monitors for changes in an EKG which correlate (91 to 94% of the time) with high serum potassium. This is very, very clever.

“Peaked T waves on an EKG can indicate hyperkemia. I’m an ICU nurse and if we take an EKG and see the leaked T wave, a BMP ( basic metobolic panel) would follow to confirm serum Potassium levels. Hyperkemia is very dangerous but the treatment can be straight forward most times. We use a mediation called Kayexelate to make the excess potassium be excreted through the bowel or insulin and D50 to drive the potassium into the cells.

 

[69Mustang]

It wouldn't affect Apple unless they're actually making these medical claims. They simply shift any blame onto the KardiaBand.

My quote has nothing to do with KardiaBand. I was responding to this suggestion: "I don't understand why Apple doesn't get into the medical device field. Apple has plenty of money to buy these startups and build a medical-device unit. "

 

[Morgenland]

It wouldn't affect Apple unless they're actually making these medical claims. They simply shift any blame onto the KardiaBand.

For me, it is incomprehensible that it seems so hard to develop something rapidly in the health market.

Diabetes as an example (Apple Watch and Dexcom):

More than 29 million American adults have diabetes and another 86 million have prediabetes. The CDC projects that one in three adults could have diabetes by 2050 More than one quarter of seniors (ages 65 and older) have diabetes (25.9 percent, or 11 million seniors). Diabetes is the seventh leading cause of death in the United States, accounting for around $245 billion in medical costs and lost productivity each year. [https://stateofobesity.org/diabetes/]

Despite this enormous growth market, the current technology leaders Apple and Dexcom (CGM diagnosis) have not been able to bring a continuously improving and patient-friendly "Pro"-level system onto the market. The current Dexcom system still corresponds to the very old patents in all mechanical parts. It hasn't changed since Tim Cook supposedly checked it himself in May 2017 for a few days (MacRumors had reported; https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/18/apple-ceo-tim-cook-test-drove-glucose-monitor.html).
Neither of the two companies have been able to keep their promises of the keynote WWDC June 5, 2017 (https://www.apple.com/apple-events/june-2017/ see minute 19:50) in the software either.
With watchOS 4, direct communication with external sensors was made possible (Core Bluetooth) but Dexcom (pretty simple programming job for California) has not yet responded "in real world" https://9to5mac.com/2017/06/21/interview-dexcom-ceo-apple-watch-corebluetooth-cgm-diabetes/ . Their app update a few days ago was a laughing stock and big disappointment. They did not consider most of the needs from a diabetic point of view.

Can anyone explain to me why innovation in one of the most important areas of humanity seems almost impossible and why we have to be glad about every small exception?

 

[jonnysods]

Very impressive. I love my AW2, but I was really rattled at how badly they gimped it on WatchOS4.

 

[teamgibbs]

When does the combination of the iPhone and Watch just become a Tricorder?

 

[erinsarah]

I don't understand why Apple doesn't get into the medical device field. Apple has plenty of money to buy these startups and build a medical-device unit. Otherwise, HealthKit is going the way of HomeKit, which means the competitors will create much better solutions. Apple is coming up with great ideas, but the unwillingness to follow up and instead licensing access to third parties results in mediocre experience. Where is the famed ecosystem, Apple?

I respectfully disagree. The medical device business is enormously complex, fraught with legal red tape, and any device created takes YEARS to get approved and have to undergo a multitude of procedures for updates, etc. Plus, the devices are very, very specialized. Are they supposed to become a diabetes care company? focus on AFib only? Focus on hair loss? It's way, way too specific. And then, there are HIPAA privacy issues. Apple does NOT want to be in that business. HOWEVER, what the have with the apple watch is a gateway to ALL of these things, much like iTunes is their gateway to the music industry. They don't need to hire musicians to have make money with Apple music...they provide the tools so musicians can sell their stuff, and they get a kickback. The watch serves as a the foundation for many, many different possible technologies for helping companies come up with useful medical tools, experimental studies, and other solutions all in one neat little device that does not have to be regulated by the FDA.

Now, all that being said, I wonder if Apple quietly sets up any sort of special funding or partnerships to get devices or studies built. Just sort of thinking out loud, I could see them working with closely with a device company to, say, help them build a newfangled anal thermometer that links to the watch, and getting a kickback on the licensing when it goes into production.

 

[phinsup]

I have hyperkalemia (bad kidneys). Pretty sweet deal as I have been fighting high potassium for a while. If the Apple Watch took blood pressure I would be golden!

 

[newellj]

This stuff is interesting, BUT...

There is a big difference between a two-lead EKG and a twelve-lead EKG (the kind with all the wires you get in your doctor's office).

The Apple Watch is not designed for this. To use the AliveCor band, you give up swimming (it's not waterproof) and activity monitoring, since it needs the watch to be in workout mode to take your heart rate every 5 seconds. You also give up battery life for obvious reasons. Finally, the top of the wrist isn't the easiest or best place to get any kind of reading, and it fails if you're dark-skinned or inked.

It's very promising, but it's nowhere near ready to be a product. Maybe someday...

Full disclosure: I have a-fib and used the AliveCor KardiaMobile on my previous phone. I was almost never able to get normal reading from it, despite the fact that my heart was in sinus rhythm.

I have almost 50 years with cardiac issues and measurement technologies myself. I used a KardiaBand for four weeks. For my specific conditions, which include AFIF, it provided no actionable information, and the one event that was identified as "AFIB detected" (or similar alert words) turned out to be unreadable by a cardiologist.

I very strongly support the efforts of Apple and third party companies that are building on/around the Apple health-related platform, and I am sure that there are cases where the KardiaBand and the KardiaMobile devices are an important tool, but treating them as something that is useful for the general population is not going to benefit anyone - except the manufacturer.

 

[therunningman]

I think this would be interesting if the system could monitor for more than 30 seconds at a time. But still, pretty cool!

 

[newellj]

More thoughts on this general topic, these from Dr. Michael Joyner at the Mayo Clinic:

“Measuring things is not therapy,” he pointed out. “So in terms of patient care applications, if this is not linked to a coherent way to deal with and act on the data, then any assumptions about better outcomes are premature. The well-done RCTs [randomized controlled trials] on things like CHF [congestive heart failure] and home monitoring have not been especially impressive.”

Joyner also expressed concern about the effect the consumer devices will have on the “worried well.” How will they handle information about “funny” heartbeats? “It is easy to envision a cascade of overdiagnosis stemming from more monitoring,” he said.

Joyner also took issue with the common belief (or hope) that these devices can help people who want to get healthier. “The evidence that wearables consistently motivate positive and durable behavior change over time is pretty thin,” he said. “Better technology per se is not going to solve complex systems and behavioral challenges.”​

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Seriously considering buying the Apple Watch. But the battery...

I think you'd be surprised (pleasantly) - especially if you either don't buy the LTE version or don't use LTE much. My wife and I and my older son and his wife all have the LTE version of the Sport watch. We all use the watch very differently, but none of us has had any complaints about battery life, including my daughter-in-law. She's the only one who uses LTE heavily - she has basically ditched her iPhone and still gets good runtime. I use the watch more or less exclusively as a fitness wearable (ditched my FitBit and some other wearables) and I get by with about 40 minutes/day of charging. The battery life is good, and it recharges very quickly (small battery!).

 

[grahamwright1]

Very impressive. I love my AW2, but I was really rattled at how badly they gimped it on WatchOS4.

Please explain in more detail - my AW1 is great under watchOS4 and I don't have any new issues since updating the OS. Curious to know what you think has been"gimped"

 

[jonnysods]

Please explain in more detail - my AW1 is great under watchOS4 and I don't have any new issues since updating the OS. Curious to know what you think has been"gimped"

Really?

If go to open an app it take 10+ seconds to load. If I click on workout and go to select a workout it takes 10+ seconds to open. It lags when I go to use voice to text, it lags when I use messages.

And, I've done a clean install, and I only use 2 apps installed, fantastical and the weather network.

Slow as molasses.

 

[grahamwright1]

Really?

If go to open an app it take 10+ seconds to load. If I click on workout and go to select a workout it takes 10+ seconds to open. It lags when I go to use voice to text, it lags when I use messages.

And, I've done a clean install, and I only use 2 apps installed, fantastical and the weather network.

Slow as molasses.

Strange - I just started a workout and it was up and running in about 1 second. Fantastical took about 3.5 seconds.

I've got the following loaded on the watch:

1Password
AliExpress
AppleInsider
AutoSleep
Clockmaker
DarkSky
Deliveries
Discover
Fantastical
Gas Buddy
Heart Rate
Heart Study
News360
NOAA Radar Pro
PCalc
Shazam
Sky Guide
TD Bank
V for Wiki
Wunderground
Yelp

It sounds like you might want to consider a factory reset and reload your apps, as my AW1 isn't showing any delays loading greater than 3.5 seconds.

Hope you can get it resolved!

 

[jonnysods]

Strange - I just started a workout and it was up and running in about 1 second. Fantastical took about 3.5 seconds.

I've got the following loaded on the watch:

1Password
AliExpress
AppleInsider
AutoSleep
Clockmaker
DarkSky
Deliveries
Discover
Fantastical
Gas Buddy
Heart Rate
Heart Study
News360
NOAA Radar Pro
PCalc
Shazam
Sky Guide
TD Bank
V for Wiki
Wunderground
Yelp

It sounds like you might want to consider a factory reset and reload your apps, as my AW1 isn't showing any delays loading greater than 3.5 seconds.

Hope you can get it resolved!

Same....! Man I've reset it a few times. Feel like I'm taking crazy pills!!!

 

[bruinsrme]

You have a medical problem that this hardware and software can monitor and make your life better, amazingly inexpensive. Think about the costs and lost time having the tests done at a doctors office. Also the data collected, invaluable for research that will lead to better treatments and possibly a cure. Already happening that healthcare companies are beginning to see the value by including not only these devices but the Apple Watch in their programs, at little to no costs for the client. You are a bit smug now, when and if you need this type of medical monitoring, you will see the value.

They’ll buy the cheap amazon knockoff.

 

[djmlewis]

This is a serious scam. I bought the $199 wristband without reading too closely the warning that to just have its basic functionality yo have to pay $199 subscription annually. So without that you cannot even install the watch app! So they can increase the subscription how much they like and you have to pay or the expensive watch strap becomes useless. I NEVER had a hardware device that didn't have ANY functionality at all without an open-ended subscription. DO NOT BUY