Subler making me crazy

[dasx]

Sure.

Download Remux from here :http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/35968/remux/

Then, drag and drop the original mkv into the program.

Under the "Reencode" column in the same row as the audio, it should default to "no". Click the scroll down menu and change to AC3 448k.

Set an alternate save location (or rename the file) or else your original file will be overwritten and the conversion will fail.

After Remux does its thing, you will now have an mkv with a AC3 audio track rather than DTS.

Now, drag and drop this new file into Subler. Passthru both the audio and video track. Rename this audio track "Surround Sound" or something like that.

Then, drag and drop the same file into Subler again, this time only keep the audio track checked and use the drop down menu to select "AAC - Stereo". This will convert the AC3 track to Stereo audio for playability on an iPhone/iPad. Rename this track "Stereo" or something similar.

If you want to save the original DTS track as well, just repeat the step above using the original, unconverted mkv, only check audio, passthru, and rename to "DTS" or something similar.

You should now have a video track and a couple of audio tracks in the Subler window. You must order them as follows:

Video Track
Stereo
Surround
(DTS)

Or else the resulting mp4 will not play audio in iTunes.

Now use the magnifying glass in the top right corner of Subler to add metadata, etc.

Then, click the video track and a few options should become available to you. Make sure the video profile is set to main@3.1 (I've heard the aTV can support other versions, but its not officially listed on the Apple site, so main@3.1 is what I use).

Then, when none of the tracks (video, audio, etc) are highlighted, an "Other Settings" menu becomes available. Use this to set the file as 720p, 1080p, etc.

Finally, when you are ready to go and start the process, if your file will be >4GB, you must check the "64 bits chunk offset" option in the "Save As" menu.

Hope this helps.

OK, I downloaded a MKV sample of 1:26 with tons of audios in both DTS and AC3. I took out with MKVToolnix the most of them and left DTS: SPA, DTS: ENG, AC3: ENG.

My plan was to convert this to M4V using Subler, see if the DTS tracks had acquired any kind of delay but not the AC3 one and then use remux to convert the tracks to AAC and then use Subler to put it to a M4V container and see if it had fixed the delay.

Problem is Subler did just fine. No delay. So... Only things I can think of are:
1. Syncing problem shows up with large files.
2. This is completely random.
3. Remuxing with MKVToolnix kind of solves any possible syncing problems Subler provokes.

Will have to try with a larger file, but I didn't have that much time so decided to do it tomorrow. It'd be funny now that Subler showed no delay at all with any of the rest of my movies. LOL

 

[chenks]

2. This is completely random

it appears to be random for me.
some files end up with no delay, some files do.

luckily i kept one of the problematic MKV files to future testing, so I can run thru this later today and see what the result is.

 

[Mackan]

Make sure there is no header compression on the video or audio before remuxing. Can check that with MediaInfo.

 

[chenks]

Make sure there is no header compression on the video or audio before remuxing. Can check that with MediaInfo.

mp4tools checks for that before doing anything IIRC.

 

[dasx]

it appears to be random for me.
some files end up with no delay, some files do.

luckily i kept one of the problematic MKV files to future testing, so I can run thru this later today and see what the result is.

I've been remuxing MKVs all morning and no delay has appeared in any of them. All movies I previously remuxed that already have a delay are killing me. I'll have to play them individually with VLC, find out how much delay each track's got and then apply an offset using Subler.

I realized something interesting. Subler always converts audio tracks (DTS or AC3) to a 2 channel AAC track. I thought this had something to do with the TV or something, but tried to convert just the audio tracks with "remux" to a specified 6 channel AAC format and Apple TV plays it just fine.
I wonder why Subler doesn't give the option to keep all 6 channels.

(Also, remux takes way longer time to convert just the audio...)

Could you try something with that file that acquires delay? Use AviDemux to extract a 1 minute long MKV and try to convert it just using Subler. I'm curious to know if the delay also appears with small sized files.

I'm waiting for a movie with syncing problems so I can do some tests to it.

----------

Make sure there is no header compression on the video or audio before remuxing. Can check that with MediaInfo.

How does that affect syncing?

 

[chenks]

Could you try something with that file that acquires delay? Use AviDemux to extract a 1 minute long MKV and try to convert it just using Subler. I'm curious to know if the delay also appears with small sized files.?

will try the movie i have tonight.

 

[Vice92]

The only files I've seen that become delayed are either those with DTS audio tracks or those using header compression. I use mkvtoolnix to remove the header compression for those files and then they remux fine through Subler.

I don't necessarily think it's random - there must be a cause, but it could be a number of factors. Those are the only ones I've identified so far however.

In regards to length, my first remux was an .mkv of The Big Bang Theory. The file size was under 1GB and about 25 minutes in length. There was still an audio delay. Problem was the files used header compression and I've found mp4tools to not handle that properly either, thus mkvtoolnix was needed.

I realized something interesting. Subler always converts audio tracks (DTS or AC3) to a 2 channel AAC track. I thought this had something to do with the TV or something, but tried to convert just the audio tracks with "remux" to a specified 6 channel AAC format and Apple TV plays it just fine.
I wonder why Subler doesn't give the option to keep all 6 channels.

(Also, remux takes way longer time to convert just the audio...)

If I'm thinking you're referring to is correct, there is an option to change this under preferences. You can always just use the passthru option to keep the audio file as is.

 

[chenks]

Just ran the the file I had that was out of sync using mp4tools, and the audio is in sync using the remux/subler instructions provided in this thread.

FYI it was War Horse 1080p MKV.

So not sure what mp4tools is doing that remux/subler doesn't do that results in audio sync issues.

 

[dasx]

The only files I've seen that become delayed are either those with DTS audio tracks or those using header compression. I use mkvtoolnix to remove the header compression for those files and then they remux fine through Subler.

I don't necessarily think it's random - there must be a cause, but it could be a number of factors. Those are the only ones I've identified so far however.

In regards to length, my first remux was an .mkv of The Big Bang Theory. The file size was under 1GB and about 25 minutes in length. There was still an audio delay. Problem was the files used header compression and I've found mp4tools to not handle that properly either, thus mkvtoolnix was needed.




If I'm thinking you're referring to is correct, there is an option to change this under preferences. You can always just use the passthru option to keep the audio file as is.

Just ran the the file I had that was out of sync using mp4tools, and the audio is in sync using the remux/subler instructions provided in this thread.

FYI it was War Horse 1080p MKV.

So not sure what mp4tools is doing that remux/subler doesn't do that results in audio sync issues.

So interesting guys. We're narrowing down the problem here.

I got some news (weird ones). I'm taking a look at all the movies I had already remuxed and I found some of them to have sync issues. Funny part is only Spanish tracks show a delay, and it's usually around 1400ms (+- 150ms). No English audio track (either DTS or AC3) has shown sync issues so far.

How do you Vice92 remove the compression header with MKVToolnix? Also, is there a way to know if there's any compression without having to open MKVToolnix?

If MKVtoolnix solves any possible Syncing issue I think the way to go could be:
1. Remux file using MKVToolnix and removing any compression headers the audio tracks might have.
2. Use the app 'remux' to just convert the audio tracks you wish to AAC 2/6 channels.
3. Open output from MKVToolnix with Subler. Set Subler to passthrough all audio tracks (so you keep all Ac3 and DTS tracks) and add the AAC tracks you created with 'remux'.
4. Save it as M4V and optimize.

This way you end up with a file with all the original audio tracks (either DTS, AC3 or both) plus AAC tracks to play on the TV.

 

[mic j]

So interesting guys. We're narrowing down the problem here.

I got some news (weird ones). I'm taking a look at all the movies I had already remuxed and I found some of them to have sync issues. Funny part is only Spanish tracks show a delay, and it's usually around 1400ms (+- 150ms). No English audio track (either DTS or AC3) has shown sync issues so far.

How do you Vice92 remove the compression header with MKVToolnix? Also, is there a way to know if there's any compression without having to open MKVToolnix?

If MKVtoolnix solves any possible Syncing issue I think the way to go could be:
1. Remux file using MKVToolnix and removing any compression headers the audio tracks might have.
2. Use the app 'remux' to just convert the audio tracks you wish to AAC 2/6 channels.
3. Open output from MKVToolnix with Subler. Set Subler to passthrough all audio tracks (so you keep all Ac3 and DTS tracks) and add the AAC tracks you created with 'remux'.
4. Save it as M4V and optimize.

This way you end up with a file with all the original audio tracks (either DTS, AC3 or both) plus AAC tracks to play on the TV.

But didn't Chenks say that mp4tools remuxed the file without a sync problem? Why would you want to go through all of those steps instead of just using mp4tools to create your transcoded audio tracks and remux the file to the mp4 container?

 

[dasx]

But didn't Chenks say that mp4tools remuxed the file without a sync problem? Why would you want to go through all of those steps instead of just using mp4tools to create your transcoded audio tracks and remux the file to the mp4 container?

Look at the bolded part. I understand just the opposite, that the tracks that acquire a delay using MP4Tools do just fine with the combination "remux"+Subler.

Just ran the the file I had that was out of sync using mp4tools, and the audio is in sync using the remux/subler instructions provided in this thread.

FYI it was War Horse 1080p MKV.

So not sure what mp4tools is doing that remux/subler doesn't do that results in audio sync issues.

 

[Vice92]

So interesting guys. We're narrowing down the problem here.

I got some news (weird ones). I'm taking a look at all the movies I had already remuxed and I found some of them to have sync issues. Funny part is only Spanish tracks show a delay, and it's usually around 1400ms (+- 150ms). No English audio track (either DTS or AC3) has shown sync issues so far.

How do you Vice92 remove the compression header with MKVToolnix? Also, is there a way to know if there's any compression without having to open MKVToolnix?

If MKVtoolnix solves any possible Syncing issue I think the way to go could be:
1. Remux file using MKVToolnix and removing any compression headers the audio tracks might have.
2. Use the app 'remux' to just convert the audio tracks you wish to AAC 2/6 channels.
3. Open output from MKVToolnix with Subler. Set Subler to passthrough all audio tracks (so you keep all Ac3 and DTS tracks) and add the AAC tracks you created with 'remux'.
4. Save it as M4V and optimize.

This way you end up with a file with all the original audio tracks (either DTS, AC3 or both) plus AAC tracks to play on the TV.

I just drag and drop the file into mp4tools. If there is header compression, the program will tell you via a popup window.

I've never encountered a .mkv with header compression and a DTS audio track, but here's how I would handle a file with header compression (and without DTS).

First, drag and drop the file into mp4tools to see if there is any header compression.

If so, open up mkvtoolnix.

Drag and drop the mkv with header compression in.

Highlight each track shown (one at a time), then click the "Extra options" menu, and under compression, set to "None". You must do this for all tracks listed.

Let the program do its thing.

Once this is done, and assuming no DTS audio track (I'm not sure if this would fix the sync issues I've encountered with DTS or not, so I'm just assuming there is no DTS track) you can throw this new file straight into Subler and mess with the audio however you wish, much like the directions I posted before on how to add other audio tracks. I've personally only had experience using mp4tools after mkvtoolnix to add a 2 channel stereo track and convert to m4v then put the file into Subler to add metadata, but putting the file straight into Subler and working with it there should accomplish the same thing.

I'm not sure how to handle a file with DTS and header compression however. After mkvtoolnix, you may just be able to straight convert the audio right in Subler, without having to mess with Remux. MP4Tools might work here as well. But I've never encountered this, so my knowledge is limited.

I also can't speak to the sync issues with just foreign tracks, I only have foreign subtitles for my files, however, simply because the audio is in a different language shouldn't really change anything. Interesting indeed.

But didn't Chenks say that mp4tools remuxed the file without a sync problem? Why would you want to go through all of those steps instead of just using mp4tools to create your transcoded audio tracks and remux the file to the mp4 container?

He said he took a file that was out of sync that occurred through the use of mp4tools, reran the file using the remux/subler instructions I provided on the first page, and the sync issues were fixed. See below

Just ran the the file I had that was out of sync using mp4tools, and the audio is in sync using the remux/subler instructions provided in this thread.

 

[dasx]

If I'm thinking you're referring to is correct, there is an option to change this under preferences. You can always just use the passthru option to keep the audio file as is.

I'm trying to find the passthru option for the audio but I can't. Is it just unchecking the box under audio preferences "convert AC3 to AAC" or something like that?

 

[Vice92]

I'm trying to find the passthru option for the audio but I can't. Is it just unchecking the box under audio preferences "convert AC3 to AAC" or something like that?

That's the one. I'm not sure if I understood the problem you described correctly but having that option checked automatically sets the audio tracks for files you are importing into Subler to downmix them to AAC. If you uncheck that box, the audio files will automatically be set to Passthru.

I'm not sure if this is technically correct but I view AC3 > AAC, so I keep this option unchecked and manually add an AAC-Stereo track simply for iPhone/iPad compatibility.

The Passthru option is available when you drag and drop the file into Subler and the window pops up with all the tracks in that file, in the right most menu there is the option to Passthru that track, meaning it won't be changed from the file type it is.

 

[chenks]

But didn't Chenks say that mp4tools remuxed the file without a sync problem? Why would you want to go through all of those steps instead of just using mp4tools to create your transcoded audio tracks and remux the file to the mp4 container?

no. i said that mp4tools gave a file that had audio sync issues.
same MKV ran thru remux/subler resulted in no audio sync.

 

[mic j]

He said he took a file that was out of sync that occurred through the use of mp4tools, reran the file using the remux/subler instructions I provided on the first page, and the sync issues were fixed. See below

Sorry, I misread what he said.

 

[dasx]

That's the one. I'm not sure if I understood the problem you described correctly but having that option checked automatically sets the audio tracks for files you are importing into Subler to downmix them to AAC. If you uncheck that box, the audio files will automatically be set to Passthru.

I'm not sure if this is technically correct but I view AC3 > AAC, so I keep this option unchecked and manually add an AAC-Stereo track simply for iPhone/iPad compatibility.

The Passthru option is available when you drag and drop the file into Subler and the window pops up with all the tracks in that file, in the right most menu there is the option to Passthru that track, meaning it won't be changed from the file type it is.

Thanks!

 

[Mackan]

How does that affect syncing?

Don't know, but I have had problems with sync when there was header compression. I use MKVToolnix to remux the MKV to remove compression on video and audio, if there.

I also use my own way to remux/convert video and audio, to avoid problems with MP4Tools and Subler.

 

[dasx]

I also use my own way to remux/convert video and audio, to avoid problems with MP4Tools and Subler.

And what way would that be?

 

[Mackan]

And what way would that be?

Way too cumbersome for most people.

I use a combination of Handbrake, ffmpeg, Sox, Audacity, Compressor and afconvert to create high quality video and audio conversions and remixes from my MKV files.

As a final step, I still use Subler to mix audio and video and tag them. Never failed so far.

People who want the quick way can use Subler or MP4Tools to do everything for them. But you don't have control over everything, and the results aren't 100% reliable.

 

[dasx]

Way too cumbersome for most people.

I use a combination of Handbrake, ffmpeg, Sox, Audacity, Compressor and afconvert to create high quality video and audio conversions and remixes from my MKV files.

As a final step, I still use Subler to mix audio and video and tag them. Never failed so far.

People who want the quick way can use Subler or MP4Tools to do everything for them. But you don't have control over everything, and the results aren't 100% reliable.

LOL. Well, I think I'll stick to the process we found out here that seems to work pretty OK.

1. Open MKV in MKVToolnix and remove header compression if any.
2. Open MKV in "remux" to convert AC3 tracks to AAC (this app lets you do it with all 6 channels enabled) and save just the audio.
3. Open MKV in Subler, set the audio to pass thru and add the AAC tracks manually.
4. Put into iTunes.

Seems to be working pretty fine and I haven't had any more delay issues. The only problem is all these steps take a bit longer than the usual single Subler step.

 

[Nails1]

Just to verify: do I need to have AAC audio when streaming on my Apple TV? Or is that just for compatibility with Ipad, Iphone (other IOS devices)?

I would rather use DTS or AC3 if I'm playing the movie on my tv and outputing to the stereo.

 

[firedownunder]

LOL. Well, I think I'll stick to the process we found out here that seems to work pretty OK.

1. Open MKV in MKVToolnix and remove header compression if any.
2. Open MKV in "remux" to convert AC3 tracks to AAC (this app lets you do it with all 6 channels enabled) and save just the audio.
3. Open MKV in Subler, set the audio to pass thru and add the AAC tracks manually.
4. Put into iTunes.

Seems to be working pretty fine and I haven't had any more delay issues. The only problem is all these steps take a bit longer than the usual single Subler step.

Too many unnecessary step (imo). MP4Tools allows for pass-through of AC3 tracks and will add (convert) audio tracks in one step, no need to convert in one program and then add back in another. Never had an issue, other than header compression which has been addressed.

 

[chenks]

Too many unnecessary step (imo). MP4Tools allows for pass-through of AC3 tracks and will add (convert) audio tracks in one step, no need to convert in one program and then add back in another. Never had an issue, other than header compression which has been addressed.

MP4tools has created audio sync issue for some though (including me), even on files wit no header compression.

MP4tools prompts you to remove header compression anyway before it does anything.

 

[firedownunder]

MP4tools has created audio sync issue for some though (including me), even on files wit no header compression.

MP4tools prompts you to remove header compression anyway before it does anything.

I should clarify, when I said header compression has been addressed, I meant in this thread (and how to deal with it). My bad.