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Resolved Suddenly unable to update or download from AppStore
- Thread starter Patrice Brousseau
- Start date
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Much simpler that the circonvoluted procedure I used... Thanks!
jbarley
macrumors 601
I booted an old 10.5 Mojave install from an external drive and the problem with the App Store downloads still existed.
So until, or if Apple gets this fixed I'm going to stick with High Sierra.
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I wonder if this bug, wherever it is, will now prevent getting security updates from Apple for Mojave users.
Same conclusion as you: they manage to fix a bug and then it causes another one... Sudo thing is now a thing of the past but what if I can’t use the AppStore? And support people @Apple replying « update to Big Sur »!
Is it even possible to upgrade to Big Sur while this App Store bug is thriving? I'm not going to try myself, but it does seem like an interesting gotcha.
Yes. It should.
Because that uses the software update system and not the app store.
My theory is that this is Apple's subtle way of telling us to send all our older Intel Macs to a landfill and buy new M1 based computers running Big Sur.
For a company that's having to explain to courts, US Congress, and various equivalents outside the US just why the App Store is a great thing for one and all, they certainly have a curious way of presenting themselves. Maybe Epic and Facebook have a point. (Makes me ill to say that, but mostly because it's Epic and Facebook...)
Probably not.
It uses the software update system and not the app store.
Infinite Vortex
macrumors 6502a
I totally get what you're saying and agree with it although one important thing needs to be pointed out… it's actually not funny!
My guess that this is intentional to get "us" to either upgrade to Catalina/Big Sur else but new computers. Interesting this happens to only the last version that runs 32-bit software.
I had the exact same thing happen when Apple released iOS 7. That "upgrade" made my iPhone SE (update - iPhone 4s, not SE) burn up like crazy when wifi was on. At the time, no wifi meant my iPhone was basically useless. It took Apple close to 4 months to fix it. I had actually set a date that if a fix wasn't released I was switching to an Android. The update that fixed it appears literally 3 days before that assigned date. And as a side note, my primary phone is a Samsung Galaxy S10 and I'm currently eying off the S21 Ultra.
Windows is looking pretty good to me right now. 😕
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It's funny (!) that you should bring this up. I was out hiking about and gave some thought to this.
Whether intentional or not, my conclusion is that this is Apple's way of telling us that:
A) We should buy applications directly from the developers. Most apps I use are available that way. So, unless I am desperate for an app only available from the App Store, I'll only buy apps from the developer.
B) It's a bad idea to upgrade the operating system beyond what came with the hardware. ("Point" or security upgrades don't count) Apple develops new software to work with new hardware that they want to sell you. How much regression testing they do on older hardware is a mystery. Whether they have a strong interest in fixing bugs is another mystery. They make no money on upgrades, so that might be a good clue about this.
Personally, I get the sense that things weren't quite this way in years past. Certainly, there was no etched-in-stone rule that new Apple operating system major versions had to come out each year at a certain time. But, who knows?
As for Windows, I have two specific data points.
The laptop issued to me by my employer is a Lenovo W520 that's about 10 years old. I'm the second user. It started with Windows XP and then was upgraded to Windows 7. (Companies often are slow adopters of new software) A couple years ago, the change was made to Windows 10. It has an i7 processor, however much memory can be installed, and an SSD, just recently upgraded again. I've used this same computer over the years to do thousands of hours of engineering simulations. Are new computers faster? Certainly. But, it still works. And, companies are cheap.
Out of those Windows versions, 7 was by far the most reliable, stable, and easy to use. At least in my experience. Newer versions of Windows make unannounced changes that can kill applications without warning and make add-on hardware like test equipment useless. Please don't ask how I know this.
But, I do have a white iMac circa mid-2006 with a Core 2 Duo that runs Windows 7 very well.
Overall, the Mac system is much better in pretty much every way. But, they sure make it hard. Harder than it needs to be, as proven by how much easier it worked previously.
Interesting...this is so confusing.
Let me describe this situation and see if the braintrust has any idea why it's happening. I hate disseminating incorrect information and may have inadvertently done so with respect to this security patch. But here's the deal. Three Macs. All have working App Store. A few days ago I applied the 002 patch to Mac #1 and didn't think twice about it. A couple days ago, I discover it cannot update apps. I assume it's some server BS like from a month ago and just wait a day. Yesterday, same thing. So, I try to update on Mac #2 and Mac #3...they both work and do not have the 002 patch applied. I apply the patch to Mac #2, just to test. Mac #2's app store becomes non functional.
So, now we have Mac #1 and #2 with non functional app stores AND 002 patch applied. Mac #3 has a functional app store, but no 002 patch.
Both Macs #1 & #2 cannot get the manifest.plist file in the App Store folders...Mac #3 can.
That's the situation and I'm wondering if there is some way that the 002 patch, once applied, causes a change on Apple's backend with certificate verification? I just can't figure it out...thoughts?
Then why the F does my 2008 MacBook Pro running Yosemite work perfectly fine with the App Store? It would appear that Apple changed something with the App Store that only screws up Mojave.
As pointed by @wellander1 , a new install and the bug is still there. For sure, disabling the Digicert certificate causes AppStore to not function at all. So, unless some expert chime here (I am not one...) and explains exactly what’s going on, we are in the dark.
Yes, all other MacOS’es looks fine but I saw a post on a French forum where one user had AppStore problems with BigSur: apps not completing upgrade or download...? Hackintosh however 😉
Sorry, simple Google translate without correction (source: https://forum.macbidouille.com/index.php?showtopic=419773&pid=4372223&st=0&#entry4372223 )
«
Hi team.
Yesterday I took the plunge by installing BigSur.
I saw that I had an app to update on the App Store and launched it. Finding that the loading bar under the Application folder in the Dock was still there after several minutes, I went to see and saw that the download was stopped.
Today I decided to understand what it comes from and I tried everything, nothing helped. Whether it's an application already downloaded previously or a new application (without the Cloud logo) it always makes me the same (explanation a little below).
Having Little Snitch, I thought "maybe he's the one blocking a particular channel that is preventing the download from going all the way." The problem is that the download starts well.
So I uninstalled L.S and still the same. I also have MenuMeters to monitor various activities such as the temperature of the process or the data exchanges via the net.
What is happening ?
Once the download started, I could see via MenuMeters that the data exchange suddenly stops at about 3/4 of the download circle (see photo below).
It is always exactly in this state that the download is interrupted and it is no longer possible to cancel the latter. I have to restart for the download action to go away.
I have been looking around the net for a bit, they say clean up the DNS and delete the files from the Cache (which I did). I have dislodged and relocated plenty of times. Nothing to do.
It's as if Apple's servers believe the file is finished being sent and stop sending the rest to complete the download.
Have you ever had a similar case? No matter how much I look on the net, it often talks about solutions for iOS, sometimes for MacOS, but nothing that allowed me to resolve this "failure". »
amstel78
macrumors 6502a
Apple's ethos of planned obsolescence is one reason I haven't bought a new product in years. My last was a mid-2010 MBP. My personal opinion? The day Jobs died, so did Apple. That culture of innovation passed over to the nether with him. Now, it seems Apple is running solely on a profit-centric model. No charger with a $1,000 iPhone because you want to be more "eco-aware"? You've got to be joking.
And then there's the whole right to repair movement and Apple's inane drive to make sure something like that doesn't continue, like gluing batteries into laptop cases, or suing small repair businesses into submission... a discussion best left for another day.
I do have to applaud Apple for their privacy policies though. It's something I can respect these days when companies like Google, Facebook, and even Bank of America are willing to bend over to anyone waving a subpoena, or a stack of dollar bills.
But I digress. While I do believe Apple would prefer all of us to run out and plonk down $6k to $35+k for a new MP7,1, I don't think what we're seeing here today is part of that. More than likely, some update intended for another device, along with the Apple framework or infrastructure (that also happens to cover Mojave), was altered recently. Or perhaps, some new maintenance script on their side had unintended consequences that only affected Mojave users. I say this because I've seen reports of App Store users on older releases still able to download updates or new apps.
This is a Mojave specific episode that engulfs a wide range of hardware, supported or not. Let's just hope they can fix this in short order.
P.S. I would rather pay $129 for every new Mac OS release than be forced to upgrade perfectly capable hardware. Am I the only one that feels this way?
Looks like it’s the new way, even with Windows 10 with half-year updates. I would prefer at least a better retro compatibility like Microsoft...
amstel78
macrumors 6502a
I should rephrase... I'd rather pay $129 bucks for new Mac OS releases as long as they maintain more than 2 generations of backwards compatibility support.
I've never been a Mac vs PC guy (remember those ads?). But, I've been using Apple computers on and off for the past 30 years, give or take. I still remember the move from OS9 to OSX quite clearly as at the time, I still had a G4 MDD and a G5 water-cooled cheese grater (G5 long gone, but the MDD is sitting under my desk still). Most major 10.X releases had backwards compatibility for several generations. It was only after Apple went full Intel that Rosetta support was eventually killed. Anyway, the point being is that those iterations cost $129 bucks if memory serves.
My MP5,1 runs Big Sur 11.2 just fine with OpenCore and few kext hacks. I just booted into it earlier today to see if App Store was borked on that too. Nope. Just saying...
Ditto! However, I think that the Mac hardware isn’t anymore a priority for them. iDevices and services... 🙁
Ok, so the BigSur case on the French forum would be an anomaly it seems.
I am personally ok with paying. I'd bet the cost would be less than $129 now, too, since the distribution costs are waayyyy lower by allowing a download rather than shipping a packaged DVD.
For me, these are tools. I like them to be nice and the way I want them to work, but they are still tools, however attractive. The real attractive aspect is in the elegance of execution. That implies that they should work reliably. I get that bugs happen. I get that circumstances change, such as with malware. But, come on. This is getting ridiculous.
One of the smartest things I've done of late is to not update any of the iPhones or iPads here to iOS 14.x. The battery stories are awful.
Infinite Vortex
macrumors 6502a
For me its quite simple, Apple have completely lost their "it just works" mantra and in that, they're now no better or worse than the other guys, just different.
When asked my I used Apple I used to tell people that it was simple… I spent more time worrying what I was doing rather than spending it all worry about what the device was doing. I got an awfully rude awakening when switching to an Android phone to find that, for me at least, it was significantly less friction for getting things done. My screen on time is way down as I'm getting it done quicker and more efficiently. There are plenty of other things I prefer to be doing to being glued to a screen. Sure I could feel very differently based on what I do, but that's someone else… not me.
I just want to get my stuff done that needs doing. If there's something to be had beyond that then great. But unless it does what it needs to do with a minimum of fuss then those "frills" don't matter a lot. So this type of rubbish just makes me take steps closer to turning my iMac into a Windows computer rather than buying a new Mac. And that's probably going to be a one way street to somewhere else.
A colleague asked me to debug the Teams application on her new MacBook Air running Catalina. So, yes, it just doesn’t work... Probably just a couple of things with the new Security realm...
amstel78
macrumors 6502a
It took me 2 hours to get Teams running properly on Catalina with my other MP. Combination of SIP issues and what not.
No, it doesn't just work.
Apart from the time I've wasted today on just the App Store issue, I'd hate to think of all the time lost just getting Big Sur to run reliably on my MP5,1 with OpenCore.
These older machines are great for tinkerers. Not so much for those that need it to just work. If you have money to burn, then buy the latest and greatest I guess. If you're like the other 97% of the world, then learn how to mess with stuff is my suggestion.