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Of course Carbon is a modern OS X API, and if you're trying to create C++ programs, it's the easiest API to use. Apple may initially have intended it to be some sort of portability layer, but it continues to be updated, and Apple themselves write major parts of OS X and iApps in it, from the Finder to iTunes.

I'm not saying I wouldn't like it in Cocoa, but it's a stretch to call it "deprecated" or imply that it would be better to use X11 than Carbon.

Carbon is the old Toolbox APIs that they did a quick spit and polish on for OS X. It should have been killed years ago.

It's basically an equivalent to the Win16 APIs and how those got scraped together to create the Win32 API. Look at how difficult it's been for Microsoft to get everyone over the the .NET frameworks. Same idea with Carbon. It's an old API that is only for the sake of Compatibility.

You don't make good software on an API that is being kept around for backward compatibility.
 
Carbon is the old Toolbox APIs that they did a quick spit and polish on for OS X. It should have been killed years ago.

It's basically an equivalent to the Win16 APIs and how those got scraped together to create the Win32 API. Look at how difficult it's been for Microsoft to get everyone over the the .NET frameworks. Same idea with Carbon. It's an old API that is only for the sake of Compatibility.

You don't make good software on an API that is being kept around for backward compatibility.

Actually isnt Microsoft Office v. X written in Carbon? Seems to run beautifully imo. That being said, Java (eg, NeoOffice) is a horrible experience and id love to see an "Open" and NATIVE approach for Mac users in need of an office suit.
 
I think it's great news!

Its a good backup plan for Apple in case Microsoft ever decides to pull the plug on Office. I've always thought that Apple should have been developing their own port of OO (in secret) in case this ever happened, but now Sun is helping!
 
Well, seeing as how bloated and slow OOo is even on Windows machines, I'm not holding my breath. I think I read a while ago that with the resources they hav, it would be undoable to port it using Cocoa because the code base just wouldn't allow for it. I doubt even the new version would 'feel' right, as the porter once remarked that OOo handles so much of its interface itself that it is very hard to replace.

I personally have higher hopes for the upcoming port of KOffice 2, which is based on Qt4. It will also be carbon, but at least it's lean and fast.

Still doubt either of these two will draw me away from Office 2008. Office 2004 is already excellent, albeit a bit slow on my MacBook. I'd rather spend $100-$200 on a good Office suite once than mess about with half-hearted free alternatives.
 
I am happy with OpenOffice on my Windows XP computer. I use NeoOffice on my Mac: it is much faster than OpenOfficeX11 on the Mac.

Now I can transfer OO files between my Mac & Compaq without any editing. I can open MSOffice files easily with OO or NeoOffice. Previously, I used MSWord on the Compaq and MSWord on the Mac, but I had to do a lot of editing to make it work the way I wanted to view it.

So, I will never spend a nickel again on MSOffice.
 
I think it's great news!

Its a good backup plan for Apple in case Microsoft ever decides to pull the plug on Office. I've always thought that Apple should have been developing their own port of OO (in secret) in case this ever happened, but now Sun is helping!

Don't think Google won't be eyeing up this sort of thing, either.

Online docs, offline.
 
Can anyone post an open office screent shot. How it looks in the dock as well as open? I would really appreciate it as I am trying to decide b/w neooffice and OOo with x11.
 
Good news....more Apps coming to OS X, and NeoOffice wasn't the best solution, it was SLOW. Slower then any other program on my iBook G4...took way to long to saves, open, and basicly do anything. I know my iBook G4 isn't the fastest Mac out there, but still NeoOffice is basic tasks
 
Good news....more Apps coming to OS X, and NeoOffice wasn't the best solution, it was SLOW. Slower then any other program on my iBook G4...took way to long to saves, open, and basicly do anything. I know my iBook G4 isn't the fastest Mac out there, but still NeoOffice is basic tasks

Don't hold your breath.

Most probably I am not the first person to have said that... But OpenOffice SUCKS. It sucks on Linux, it sucks on Windows, it sucks on Solaris, and it will suck on OS X.

It is bloated and slow, it has inconsistent and ugly user interface, it does not come close to MS Office in terms of features - and did I mention it is slow?

There are certain Open Source projects that produce insanely great software. For example, Firefox, or GAIM/whetever it is called now, or... well, you name it. On the other hand, I think that OpenOffice project should just give up and close up shop. Awful software like this creates bad name for Open Source programs in general.

There are plenty of MS Office alternative programs on OS X - so I would not care one bit if that bloatware never even makes it out of the door. In fact, I hope it does not. I won't have to deal with an additional file format.
 
Don't hold your breath.

Most probably I am not the first person to have said that... But OpenOffice SUCKS. It sucks on Linux, it sucks on Windows, it sucks on Solaris, and it will suck on OS X.

It is bloated and slow, it has inconsistent and ugly user interface, it does not come close to MS Office in terms of features - and did I mention it is slow?

There are certain Open Source projects that produce insanely great software. For example, Firefox, or GAIM/whetever it is called now, or... well, you name it. On the other hand, I think that OpenOffice project should just give up and close up shop. Awful software like this creates bad name for Open Source programs in general.

There are plenty of MS Office alternative programs on OS X - so I would not care one bit if that bloatware never even makes it out of the door. In fact, I hope it does not. I won't have to deal with an additional file format.


wow simply unbelievable
 
Don't hold your breath.

Most probably I am not the first person to have said that... But OpenOffice SUCKS. It sucks on Linux, it sucks on Windows, it sucks on Solaris, and it will suck on OS X.

It is bloated and slow, it has inconsistent and ugly user interface, it does not come close to MS Office in terms of features - and did I mention it is slow?

There are certain Open Source projects that produce insanely great software. For example, Firefox, or GAIM/whetever it is called now, or... well, you name it. On the other hand, I think that OpenOffice project should just give up and close up shop. Awful software like this creates bad name for Open Source programs in general.

There are plenty of MS Office alternative programs on OS X - so I would not care one bit if that bloatware never even makes it out of the door. In fact, I hope it does not. I won't have to deal with an additional file format.

OpenOffice is not awful. It might not be as "polished" as Word is, but to be honest, I think people look for reliability and practicality, not speed or aesthetics. Besides, NeoOffice works great on my computer, so your theories on speed is debunked.

Now, go sulk in your own corner.
 
Good news....more Apps coming to OS X, and NeoOffice wasn't the best solution, it was SLOW. Slower then any other program on my iBook G4...took way to long to saves, open, and basicly do anything. I know my iBook G4 isn't the fastest Mac out there, but still NeoOffice is basic tasks

Have you tried the latest version? It has sped up A LOT in a few updates...and 2.1 brought good looks :)
 
Have you tried the latest version? It has sped up A LOT in a few updates...and 2.1 brought good looks :)

Your spot on. Version 2.1 of NeoOffice was a major upgrade in the looks department and it runs much faster then in the past. Just make sure you have the most recent patch.
 
I would like to save that $500 and put it into something more worthwhile. Wow, saying it like that, I can't believe Microsoft can charge that much for basic office software! That's insane! And even worse, everyone pays it! It's like, "Hmmmm...I can buy software to make amazing films and special effects, or...I can buy a word processing program." Give me a break.

Actually, the latest 2007 version of Office Home and Student is only $149 with Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and OneNote. No MSAccess, however. Note that they added "home" to the licensing.... with older version you had to be a student or teacher!
 
OpenOffice is not awful. It might not be as "polished" as Word is, but to be honest, I think people look for reliability and practicality, not speed or aesthetics. Besides, NeoOffice works great on my computer, so your theories on speed is debunked.

Now, go sulk in your own corner.

Reliability and practucality are exactly the reasons OpenOffice sucks.

I remember using it two years ago on my Linux machine. That piece of crap corrupted the documents when saving them about one time out of 8. Saving in its native format, by the way. Not to .doc or anything fancy like that. In the end of the day, MS Office 2000 running under WINE was more reliable. If OpenOffice never corrupted anything for you - great. I have lost hours and hours of work myself.

More recent versions I have been unfortunate enough to use under Windows did save files fine. But they crashed - much more often than MS office ever did for me, and much more often than I would consider to be 'practical'. OO would also grind to a halt if presented with any document containing many tables and/or pictures. Granted, MS Office does that too - but it takes many more tables and pictures to bring MS Office down to its knees.

OpenOffice does not support neither MS Office templates, nor LaTeX style sets. Ever tried submitting a paper to any major scientific journal? No, you won't be able to make it with OpenOffice. Ever.

How about reference management? Say, you are writing a paper with 150 references, which you need formatted in a certain way, and cross-referenced throughout the 40 pages of text itself? Don't have any illusions. You cannot accomplish that simply with OpnOffice. Yes, you can export the paper in RTF, and scan it with something like EndNote or Bookends... But it is a crappy solution compared to, say, a typical MS Office/Endnote or Mellel/Bookends combination.

Did I mention OpenOffice is slow and bloated? On slower/cheaper computers, and I am talking Pentium 4 2.4GHz/512M of RAM, it takes literally forever to start up. I don't care why, or how. It just sucks to wait 40 seconds for that awful word processor to load into the memory.

As far as your experience with NeoOffice goes - good for you. If you can tolerate it, and do whatever work you need to be done with it - go ahead and save yourself a few bucks. However, if you are content with the level of functionality in OpenOffice, you should be aware that there are other free programs that do the same - and they are BETTER. For example, AbiWord is way better than OpenOffice writer. Gnumeric is way better than OpenOffice spreadhseet. And I can go on.

As for myself, I use Mellel/Bookends, Keynote, and Deltagraph myself. I am by no means an MS Office apologist. But most of the overly positive OpenOffice posts on Slashdot, here, and elsewhere irk me immensely. "Why don't you use OpenOffice? It's Free Software and it is insanely great!!!eleventy111!!!"

It is bad software in need of a from-scratch rewrite. Sorry, it is a hard truth. And until people heading that project will realize that, MS will have a virtual monopoly on office suite market - just because their product is that much better than the competition.
 
Reliability and practucality are exactly the reasons OpenOffice sucks.

I remember using it two years ago on my Linux machine. That piece of crap corrupted the documents when saving them about one time out of 8. Saving in its native format, by the way. Not to .doc or anything fancy like that. In the end of the day, MS Office 2000 running under WINE was more reliable. If OpenOffice never corrupted anything for you - great. I have lost hours and hours of work myself.

More recent versions I have been unfortunate enough to use under Windows did save files fine. But they crashed - much more often than MS office ever did for me, and much more often than I would consider to be 'practical'. OO would also grind to a halt if presented with any document containing many tables and/or pictures. Granted, MS Office does that too - but it takes many more tables and pictures to bring MS Office down to its knees.

OpenOffice does not support neither MS Office templates, nor LaTeX style sets. Ever tried submitting a paper to any major scientific journal? No, you won't be able to make it with OpenOffice. Ever.

How about reference management? Say, you are writing a paper with 150 references, which you need formatted in a certain way, and cross-referenced throughout the 40 pages of text itself? Don't have any illusions. You cannot accomplish that simply with OpnOffice. Yes, you can export the paper in RTF, and scan it with something like EndNote or Bookends... But it is a crappy solution compared to, say, a typical MS Office/Endnote or Mellel/Bookends combination.

Did I mention OpenOffice is slow and bloated? On slower/cheaper computers, and I am talking Pentium 4 2.4GHz/512M of RAM, it takes literally forever to start up. I don't care why, or how. It just sucks to wait 40 seconds for that awful word processor to load into the memory.

As far as your experience with NeoOffice goes - good for you. If you can tolerate it, and do whatever work you need to be done with it - go ahead and save yourself a few bucks. However, if you are content with the level of functionality in OpenOffice, you should be aware that there are other free programs that do the same - and they are BETTER. For example, AbiWord is way better than OpenOffice writer. Gnumeric is way better than OpenOffice spreadhseet. And I can go on.

As for myself, I use Mellel/Bookends, Keynote, and Deltagraph myself. I am by no means an MS Office apologist. But most of the overly positive OpenOffice posts on Slashdot, here, and elsewhere irk me immensely. "Why don't you use OpenOffice? It's Free Software and it is insanely great!!!eleventy111!!!"

It is bad software in need of a from-scratch rewrite. Sorry, it is a hard truth. And until people heading that project will realize that, MS will have a virtual monopoly on office suite market - just because their product is that much better than the competition.

What I really had a problem with is your "Michael Dell" tone, and nothing else.
 
Can anyone post an open office screent shot. How it looks in the dock as well as open? I would really appreciate it as I am trying to decide b/w neooffice and OOo with x11.

Why not try them both? You can get a refund for the one you don't like. :D
 
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