Sun Still in Discussions with Apple for Java on iPhone

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Despite early claims that Sun was planning on introducing Java to the iPhone with the SDK, it appears Sun is still in discussions with Apple regarding this plan.
But Sun still wants to put a JVM on iPhone through the iPhone SDK. "[Apple is] well aware of what we're doing, and we're in discussions," Klein said.
In the meanwhile, Sun is working with a company called Innaworks who is offering an system that will port Java games into standalone iPhone SDK-based applications. This way, individual Java apps can be compiled into true iPhone applications, which will allow them to be considered individually for Apple's iTunes App Store.

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Telp

macrumors 68040
Feb 6, 2007
3,066
18
Well its good that they are still in talks with Apple about this. With any luck they will come to a nice compromise. I think Apple will help them, atleast, i think they should. It would make the phone more appealing to looking customers.
 

Yuppi

macrumors regular
Aug 6, 2007
197
0
While I strongly support Java on mobile devices, I fail to see how SUN could provide a way that satisfy the needs for a platform such as the iPhone. I would rather put my bets on the Dalvik VM which at least allows to use "real" java, and not this annoying "baby" J2ME java.
And I think that even SUN can't be stupid enough to make java Apps not look/behave like real Applications.
The problem for SUN is that they will loose the biggest market for Java that currently exists if they fail to address the new Android, iPhone platforms.
 

elppa

macrumors 68040
Nov 26, 2003
3,231
108
Sounds like Apple said “Thanks, but no thanks” and Sun said “we're not giving up that easily”.

Echoing the thoughts of others, Java on iPhone is more important to Sun than Apple. Same as Flash on iPhone is more important to Adobe than Apple.

How about both companies get Java 6 on the Mac first (not a 64bit intel only beta), though it is Apple who should take the can for this.
 

yeroen

macrumors 6502a
Mar 8, 2007
944
1
Cambridge, MA
I second this... Java disgusts me (from an end user standpoint, it eats too much system resources and I just don't like Java, end of story).

Sebastian
Thirded (is that a word?)..

The last thing any iPhone needs is to bear is the bloated Java tit upon which the java-weenies find their suck.
 

Shadowriver

macrumors member
Mar 31, 2008
43
0
Major problems here are how to upload Java app in such secured 3rd party apps system ;> two possibilities in my head:

1. Apple set java apps in to AppStore and... check them like a native apps? ;p
2. Reduce API permissions to minimum (Boo!)

Web applets need a Java SE (it's for desktop) implementation first, but first we need simpler Java ME to think about it.
 

paulyras

macrumors 6502
Dec 3, 2006
489
7
Singapore
At first glance, to me the Innaworks solution seems best, in some respects as all of the hardware is equivalent, so compiling each time is wasteful (for the moment, but I won't start a 3g lobby here). The problem then becomes distribution. Do you limit it to web sites with the Innaworks version along side normal Java code? Do you limit people to itunes downloadable Java apps?

I'd rather not compile on the fly, every time I want a java app, but there are still a lot of things I'd like to know better, before committing myself to a camp...
 

divabimbers

macrumors member
Oct 1, 2007
93
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Honestly, I think something like this would be a boon to casual users/gamers though they wouldn't necessarily realize it. I'm thinking of those that like playing at sites like Pogo.com which uses Java. I don't know if it'd help increase sales but it certainly couldn't hurt if the iPhone could play games like these, making it a more appealing device to casual users/gamers.
 

dr_lha

macrumors 68000
Oct 8, 2003
1,593
6
Do you limit people to itunes downloadable Java apps?
Apple does exactly that, yes. They're specifically limiting any iPhone app to those downloaded from the iTunes store, the "compile as native" solution to java would have to work that way too.
 

cube

Suspended
May 10, 2004
16,983
4,969
No compromise. It should be possible to download Java apps from anywhere, like with any common phone.

I will never buy a phone which does not include an open Java platform.
 

clevin

macrumors G3
Aug 6, 2006
9,095
1
I second this... Java disgusts me (from an end user standpoint, it eats too much system resources and I just don't like Java, end of story).

Sebastian
Thirded (is that a word?)..

The last thing any iPhone needs is to bear is the bloated Java tit upon which the java-weenies find their suck.
im not sure if you guys really understand java beyond the little animation in the webpage, its actually a essential underline part of OSX.



PS, OperaMINI will have chance to land if JVM is allowed/.
 

Sayer

macrumors 6502a
Jan 4, 2002
981
0
Austin, TX
Silly Sun people. Getting emails announcing the new SDK is not "discussions with Apple." So funny.

Maybe when the Touch OS X platform matures and expands beyond very power/CPU and memory limited devices we will see Apple open up to JVM, but not Flash, Apple won't lose another video content-delivery platform again.
 

cube

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May 10, 2004
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There are 1.8 billion Java phones as of 2007. You don't think the iPhone hardware is more powerful than most of them?
 

Rocketman

macrumors 603
im not sure if you guys really understand java beyond the little animation in the webpage, its actually a essential underline part of OSX.



PS, OperaMINI will have chance to land if JVM is allowed/.
Your image noted, Classic has been deemphasized, Java is being debated with the anti-crowd ahead right now, cocoa is the leading edge forward, and carbon has also been deemphasized.

That chart shows several API's are compatible with OSX. That does not mean they are all installed in the palmtop implementation. If they were installable I would want to install MacDraw on an iPhone right away. :)

I think more people would want OS 4-9 compatibility than Java. Look at all those apps designed to run on crippled hardware and small screens! OS 4.2 users untie!

Okay, maybe a recompile instead.

Rocketman
 

elppa

macrumors 68040
Nov 26, 2003
3,231
108
im not sure if you guys really understand java beyond the little animation in the webpage, its actually a essential underline part of OSX.



PS, OperaMINI will have chance to land if JVM is allowed/.
As the Cocoa - Java bridge was deprecated with Leopard, I don't think that 2001 OS stack is particularly relevant.

Sure Java apps still run on OS X, but this idea Apple once had of having lots of java apps with cocoa GUIs sitting on top of them has died a death.

Apple is encouraging applications written in:
Objective C
Ruby
Python

Of course Java apps will always be able to run on the JVM is OS X, but they will be a long way from looking native.

And Opera Mini is not so relevant on the iPhone, as it already uses Safari, which at present offers the best mobile web browsing experience.

Also: Where is java used for animations on webpages? Javascript is used extensively for adding animation/dynamic behaviour to webpages. Java Applets are barely used.
 

J@ffa

macrumors 6502a
Jul 21, 2002
663
40
Behind you!
Java sucks. Blunt, maybe, but not untrue. Just because it's on a lot of phones, doesn't mean it's any good. The vast majority of end users who use the java games or calculator bundled with their phone's OS don't know what powers it, and don't much care (as evidenced by the piles of .exes collected by new Mac users). Java on OS X is a joke: apps written in it are notorious memory hogs, their UIs almost always self-contained and ugly, and totally counter-intuitive. Whether this is Apple's implementation or endemic to Sun doesn't matter. It used to be REALbasic apps that were #1 in the comical stakes, now it's Java apps. If modern day desktops, with their processing power and oodles of memory have trouble running them, why should anyone have to tolerate it on a handheld device?
 

cube

Suspended
May 10, 2004
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Obviously you don't know Java. The only thing that sucks about it is that it's not Lisp.
 

Rocketman

macrumors 603
Apple is encouraging applications written in:
Objective C
Ruby
Python
And this is the real point, isn't it? Apple is not going to disclose a product roadmap or discuss unreleased products. But they WILL tell developers what course to take so they are not stranded IF the product line itself survives.

It seems the iPhone has legs and also follow-on products, so my advise is to listen to this advise and enjoy the ride. Stop barking at shadows, whether they be Java, Carbon, Flash, or whatever.

Rocketman
 

elppa

macrumors 68040
Nov 26, 2003
3,231
108
my advise is to listen to this advise and enjoy the ride. Stop barking at shadows, whether they be Java, Carbon, Flash, or whatever.

Rocketman
Like the advice/pressure to move to Xcode a couple of years back. Apple wouldn't say why at the time, but their reasons became very apparent later.
 

maxjg

macrumors member
Aug 6, 2006
92
0
Quite frankly, I don't want every crappy win developer attempting to port their poorly designed app to the iPhone using Java. That's what's going to happen if this goes through. Java apps are slow, generally ugly, and not what Apple wants.
 

EagerDragon

macrumors 68020
Jun 27, 2006
2,098
0
MA, USA
Java is very important for Sun, so they will not give up easily. The iPhone does not need Java to succeed.

Please help me understand why people feel they need java in the iPhone?
Apple is providing a full fledge and free programing environment that generates fast native applications.

What makes java on the iPhone attractive for you?

As to flash ... I do not see it happening either, unless it is changed so all it can do is play videos. Out of the box flash is a programing environment. So not very likely it will happen either.
 
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