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SuperSpeed USB 3.0 Promises 10Gbps Data Transfers, Coming in 2014
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It will take Apple 5 years to implement this in their products. By that time USB 4.0 will be out.
I'm not even sure what this means.
Apple added USB3 when Intel added official chipset support for the protocol. The PC world has been filled with problematic third party USB3 chipsets and drivers, and continues to be when motherboards require more than 4 USB3 ports.
TB may be niche in the overall industry, but to the extent Apple itself adopts its own thing it will have considerable inertia. USB is cheap and ubiquitous and that strength is undeniable. But any sort of larger data transfer takes time to complete and many transfers are less than real time speed. TB is the I/O solution to time critical and larger transfers.
I think the single thing I saw from Apple last year that got my attention was the combo USB 3/2/1 plug.
I think the single thing I saw from Apple last year that got my attention was the combo USB 3/2/1 plug.
From a consumer perspective, why would they care if TB is designed and works superior to USB 3? All people know is that USB is popular and everywhere and cheap. Best technologies do not always survive the market. Afordable and good-enough tech will win the market. Firewire is a good example of great tech but fail to win the market. Firewire is superior to USB 2.
From high-level perspective, Both USB 3 and TB are connections for data transfer. From regular consumer perspective, they both are the same: connection for data transfer. it does not matter how it was designed or what the intended use is.
So if we have 10Gbps connection USB 3, why do we need another connection that adds up the cost and supports few devices?
and how much do thunderbolt accessories cost again?
How much did digital cameras cost when they first appeared? How about flat screen TV's, I could go on and on, I think you get the picture. At least I hope you do!!
As far as I can see, so far Apple and not made a product that is Thunderbolt ONLY. There will always be USB and Thunderbolt ports on a Mac. What are you people arguing about. Isn't choice a good thing? Just don't use that TB port if it bugs you so much. Get a USB3++ hub if there isn't enough connectors for you. The TB port will be used by people who need it.
So....you are in the dark?
The only real news seems to be that the USB "organization" can't count to 4. As in, USB4.
This . . . . .
and how much do thunderbolt accessories cost again?
And this: right here!
Make me think otherwise.
Either way, USB will still be the standard, especially when the inflated price of TBolt hasn't come down as of yet, and what's it been, two years?
Editing video without an external hard drive is one reason. Creative professionals will always have the need for max bandwidth... For consumers, not so important for sure.
You're again putting them as rivals. Is 16 Gbps FC in some sort of problem because consumers have USB 3 ? Of course not. Different technologies with different applications.
Consumers don't have to adopt ThunderBolt for ThunderBolt to be successful.
So basically, if you don't know what each is, you think it's fine to compare them ? Because getting informed and educated is never an option. This isn't a "regular consumer" forum, please don't lower our discussion to that level.
Thunderbolt is much more than a connection for data transfer, it provides a completely functional PCIe bus externally from your computer. To reduce it to less is just plain ignorant of the capabilities of the specification.
Because you can't have a media dock with USB 3. It just doesn't make sense on a technology basis. Consumers have in TB a docking solutions for laptops if not high-end storage (because consumers just don't have this need). That is where Thunderbolt makes sense for consumers. Again, Sony used LightPeak (not Thunderbolt) to make their interconnect with their Power Media Dock for the Vaio Z series. It really boosts that laptop's performances when docked on your desk.
The point is, anyone calling for the death of Thunderbolt based on USB 3 is just not understanding the tech. Anyone trying to say Thunderbolt adoption is slow or expensive doesn't understand the tech. This is what it is, what it will be. A niche interconnect for specific high-performance applications, most of which probably not aimed at the consumer market.
Very true.
So much for Thunderbolt, a short lived, and not widely implemented standard.
I'm glad I didn't invest in it.
Firewire did win the market it was intended to win, it just was not an epic success in the way USB has been, not that this is even relevant.
You can not ignore video. That design/intended use is the critical win factor for thunderbolt. I think its also important to make a distinction between the mass consumer market, particularly notebook/mac mini type machines and the tiny percentage of pro's who move enormous amounts of data around. That tiny percentage of people is becoming even smaller with high end cloud solutions.
The business case for thunderbolt is endless.
• Apple had to have a premium data port, future firewire marketing/development was problematic and combining the existing display port and thunderbolt was brilliant.
• Apple needed to bring out new technology, their survival depends on it. Imagine if the current generation macs were just with USB 3, old firewire and a single use display port? Thats much less of a machine.
• They needed to reduce ports for new notebook formats.
• Thunderbolt supports multiple displays for notebooks - a killer feature for many.
• Thunderbolt is being marketed as premium and further differentiates itself from the competition.
• Apple has always played its own game, fighting for and defending in-house margins. It is capable of passing premium costs onto the consumer, few other manufactures can do that.
• People who buy into a premium ecosystem are going to also buy premium accessories. Premium ecosystem is one of apples strengths.
• Increasing partnership with Intel - Apples most important current relationship.
Thunderbolt is classic apple strategy and all of you who are writing it off as a failure are utterly clueless. They simply can not lose.
Actually, video is one of the weaknesses of Thunderbolt. Intel/Apple chose to implement it using only DisplayPort 1.1a with added support for daisy chaining. Probably due to Thunderbolt's limited bandwidth that didn't permit a full DP 1.2 implementation.
The thing is, we've had DP 1.2 since December 2009, a full year before Apple debuted Thunderbolt on their MBP in 2011. DP 1.2 enables support for daisy chaining, so that's not advantage brought on by Thunderbolt and DP 1.2 allows for 4K resolution monitors at 60 hz using CVT-R.
Pure VESA DisplayPort is superior to Thunderbolt for video displays.
But it works? Did you see those LaCie promo videos of the monitors connected to the macbook pro?
I don't doubt what you say, just that it seems not that relevant to the consumer market or Thunderbolts success.
I don't doubt what you say, just that it seems not that relevant to the consumer market or Thunderbolts success.
So once 4K monitors start shipping (and hints are that CES 2013, tomorrow, will be all about 4K), people with Dell/HP laptops from 2010/2011 with DP 1.2 support will be able to drive them, and yet people without a Redwood ridge TB controller won't (due for introduction in 2013). Why do you think Intel is already revising their DP support to include 1.2 support in 2013 and not waiting for another major overhaul of Thunderbolt ?
Then come back and tell me it's not relevant. Intel/Apple basically shot themselves in the foot with tying Thunderbolt with DP, and not using the latest revision of the specification.
BTW, VGA also works. Yet that doesn't mean it's great. Thunderbolt's video support is not its strong point, quite the contrary, it seems completely tacked on as an afterthought, a way for Apple to reduce the number of ports on its laptops (rather than have 2 TB ports + 1 mDP port + 2 USB port, they cut out the mDP entirely).
Aren't 4k monitors going to cost a fortune? I read somewhere that they are going to cost like 5k..That is not mass consumer market. If Thunderbolt works as well as that LaCie demo video, then 99% of the people will be happy.
The reduction of ports is important in the context of the form factor getting smaller (unavoidable and market driven).
The reduction of ports is important in the context of the form factor getting smaller (unavoidable and market driven).
If it's at CES, it means it won't be a fortune. It means its hitting the consumer market. CES is an acronym for Consumer Electronics Show after all.
Yeah, because the SD Card slot makes soooooo much more sense than a full on DP 1.2 port.
You're not convincing me of the superiority of Thunderbolt's video support, sorry. That's not a strong point of Thunderbolt. It works yes. But it's not something to make ThunderBolt shine, not even close, which was your original statement. Please don't move goalposts, you probably just didn't understand the limitations behind it.
I agree completely - tying two separately evolving standards into one connector was a mistake....
That SD slot will be going as well in the near future
A cursory google shows a couple of models to be introduced in the first quarter of this year, pricing is evasive but people are talking about 5000 euro for 32 inch displays. That is not mass market. Also they both have DP as well as HDMI, are you sure that current thunderbolt equipped macs can't drive these?
And even if they can't, the fact that a couple of pricey/super premium displays are going to be released this year is not what you base long term business models on. I am sure Thunderbolt ports will be able to drive these bad boys in the near future if they can't already.
edit: I never claimed that Thunderbolt was a superior video port. The superiority comes in its dual use and that it can power multiple monitors from a single laptop.
A cursory google shows a couple of models to be introduced in the first quarter of this year, pricing is evasive but people are talking about 5000 euro for 32 inch displays. That is not mass market. Also they both have DP as well as HDMI, are you sure that current thunderbolt equipped macs can't drive these?
And even if they can't, the fact that a couple of pricey/super premium displays are going to be released this year is not what you base long term business models on. I am sure Thunderbolt ports will be able to drive these bad boys in the near future if they can't already.
edit: I never claimed that Thunderbolt was a superior video port. The superiority comes in its dual use and that it can power multiple monitors from a single laptop.
Again, Redwood ridge TB is going to be able. But what about 2012 Macs without Redwood ridge ?
4K is coming. Again, CES is tomorrow, we'll see if it's coming this year or the next, but the fact remains, Intel/Apple severely gimped TB on the video front. Your original comment said that Thunderbolt's video support was one of its high point, it's not.
Again, don't move goalposts, it's just not a good way to hold a conversation.