Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Well I can't change your mind. If you don't see removing the wire from headphones being as liberating for the user as removing the wire from computers, well, what can I say, other than I doubt Apple sees it the same way. And I certainly don't. I can't conceive of a future where I have to uncoil an amount of wire, plug it into a device, and have to carry the device wherever I go for uninterrupted music, or unplug when I need to move around, every time I want to listen to music privately.

So I must assume you won't be using your Watch to listen to music then?

No, I don't see it as liberating because most of us will still be carrying the phone around as their music device. I doubt I will listen to music from the watch. It has limited storage and I'll always just have my phone with me anyhow. I appreciate the ability for people to be able to do so without carrying their phone around and agree that in that particular circumstance, wireless is the right choice - especially once the watch gets its own GPS. However I still consider the iPhone a fairly high-end full-featured music device however, and will be disappointed to see that change.
 
I don't really understand this argument. There's no reason such an adapter doesn't have to be anything more than this, which always stays attached to your headphones merely adding a couple of inches to the end of your current cable:

I used something similar back in the day and if given the choice between the built in 3.5mm jack and an adaptor like that I'd take the former.
 
No, I don't see it as liberating because most of us will still be carrying the phone around as their music device. I doubt I will listen to music from the watch. It has limited storage and I'll always just have my phone with me anyhow. I appreciate the ability for people to be able to do so without carrying their phone around and agree that in that particular circumstance, wireless is the right choice - especially once the watch gets its own GPS. However I still consider the iPhone a fairly high-end full-featured music device however, and will be disappointed to see that change.

Again, you are projecting your habits onto everyone else. Case in point: many Watch owners listen to music from their watch and leave their phone behind -- they cite it as a major feature that compelled them to buy the watch, certainly exercising with your iPod on your wrist is a much better choice than having to carry around their iPhone. But let's say you're right. Go to any gym and watch what people do with their headphones ... they run their cables underneath their shirts to keep them out of their way. Others run them down their back, or strap their phones on their arms. So when they have to check the phone, it's restricted to wherever they've run their cables, making it difficult to operate, much less move to a different position. So that's acceptable to you? How much better to simply place the iPhone wherever it makes the most sense. How about your gym bag? How about setting it down so you can see it for other things? And we could go on all day with examples of how not having to be physically attached to your iPhone would be beneficial.

And you're overlooking the simple fact that people don't just listen to music on their iPhones. They use headphones with their Macs, their iPads, their TVs, their Watches, and their home stereo systems, to name the major items. So you're proposing that they either carry those devices around with them, or they remain tethered to them? The reality is wireless solves that problem for every device. With improved technology, a person's favorite set of headphones can just be switched to whatever device they intend to listen to, without worrying about plugging or unplugging, or wires which may restrict their mobility. I mean this is just common sense. Whether it directly affects your current use, all things being equal, wireless is the future of everything.

Look, it's clear you are set in your ways, and not really interested in looking at this from any other persons point of view. You like wires, they don't bother you. You see a future of wires tethering people to their music because it's an established standard that cannot be improved upon. You see current wireless tech as inferior and unlikely to improve anytime soon. How can I counter this argument when that's your current view of the world? So I think we just have to agree to disagree because our debate is becoming circular.

As for the iPhone being "a fairly high-end full-featured music device", I'm not sure what that has to do with having a 3.5mm jack. That's like saying you consider the MacBook Pro to be a film high-end full-featured networking device, but the fact people now have to use an adapter to connect to the universally accepted, and superior-to-wifi-in-every-way, industry standard, makes it any less so. I get you don't want to have to use an adapter, but in the end; should Apple do this, they are giving the customer a fairly painless way to continue using the highest quality audio they think they need. And in most case -- yes I don't have the market research to back this up, but I'm going to go out on a limb here -- in most cases, the average iPhone user is going to use Apple's free Lightning earbuds exclusively anyway, so the actual number of people affected by the need to buy an adapter is likely going to be relatively pretty small. Many may use this as the excuse to upgrade to bluetooth, where quality has not been an issue so much as price. Other's may decide it's time to upgrade their old headphones for a set of HQ Lightning. And such purchases will be even more attractive to the people as new headphones include both the option for an analogue connection, and a digital wired connection. And that leaves a minority of people who will have to buy likely inexpensive and unobtrusive adapters, that will otherwise not change their experience one bit.

So again, who are we really discussing here -- you? Or the majority of Apple's customers?
 
Not that progressive. Android phones especially those from Sony, Samsung and HTC support USB to USB headphones for the past 2yrs.


Not true.

Maybe we'll FINALLY see PROPER imperical ratings on Speakers and Headphones compatible with Apple products not this garbage from Beats "You're not hearing the music" junk!

IMPEDANCE (OHM)
40Ω at 1kHz !
SENSITIVITIES (DB/MW)
102 dB/mW
BAMMM!

Good point regarding proper empirical ratings on non-Apple audio products. 3rd parties do not get a fair playing field in the Apple ecosystem since they "won" the mobile war. It's now their arena. The only path to success for 3rd parties is to correctly worship at their alter (including genuflection and self-sacrifice) and hope they seat you in a good location in their arena.

I know there will be a new cottage industry for splitter devices to support the headphone jack - My preference is to not need one. Just another fiddly pice of clutter to fumble with...

Soooooooooo......
Are you under the impression that sitting out the 7 will make ANY difference whatsoever?
Like, do you think that the 7S will add the headphone jack back on there or something?

Yeah I know, but I can certainly cast my votes.

Overall, I'm not happy with where Apple is heading. They started going off track after the 5s.. Specifically:

1. Dropping a 4" phone from the "top spec tier" was a bad move - the 4.7" is to big for someone who likes to travel light like me - I'm not overweight, but I'm a "pockets" guy and there's not much room left in there after I fill up my pants :).

2. The rounded "turd" corners just make them easier to slip out of hands and pockets. I call the post 5s versions 'iTurds'. Adding a case to prevent slippage just makes them even larger - I applied a "brushed metal textured" vinyl skin to my 6 to help prevent slippage, but the corners are still a problem.

A 4" iPhone with rounded corners would have been fine - adding a case would not exceed my size preference.

My future iPhone buys will depend mainly on what new technology I choose to support in the apps I sell. As long as they don't decide to create a new screen size, I should be fine with the hardware I have.
 
And you're not?
No, I'm not. I'm looking at this objectively. I don't really have a horse in this race. They can remove the 3.5mm jack or not, I've still got Lightning and Bluetooth. However, count me in the camp that applauds the move if it allows Apple to offer me new technology that makes the iPhone more useful to me, or extended battery life, and/or other benefits to everyone, among which will be lower prices and better quality of Lightning and bluetooth audio devices.

At the end of the day, the objective view is that wireless is the future of audio. All things being equal, using a device with the best quality audio source, producing the best quality audio signal, but still connecting via a wire that tethers the user to the device, can absolutely be improved if that exact same quality signal can be transmitted wirelessly giving the user completely mobility at the same time, without any tradeoffs otherwise (again all things being equal).

Since there's no current objection to bluetooth raised (at least expressed on this thread) that can't be addressed with technology improvements, i.e. no physical limitation to overcoming current deficiencies of the platform, then it's pretty obvious this will be the future. Am I forcing that view on anyone? No. It just is the reality.
 
No, I'm not. I'm looking at this objectively. I don't really have a horse in this race. They can remove the 3.5mm jack or not, I've still got Lightning and Bluetooth. However, count me in the camp that applauds the move if it allows Apple to offer me new technology that makes the iPhone more useful to me, or extended battery life, and/or other benefits to everyone, among which will be lower prices and better quality of Lightning and bluetooth audio devices.

At the end of the day, the objective view is that wireless is the future of audio. All things being equal, using a device with the best quality audio source, producing the best quality audio signal, but still connecting via a wire that tethers the user to the device, can absolutely be improved if that exact same quality signal can be transmitted wirelessly giving the user completely mobility at the same time, without any tradeoffs otherwise (again all things being equal).

Since there's no current objection to bluetooth raised (at least expressed on this thread) that can't be addressed with technology improvements, i.e. no physical limitation to overcoming current deficiencies of the platform, then it's pretty obvious this will be the future. Am I forcing that view on anyone? No. It just is the reality.

Okay, now I know you're joking. You and the others on your side of the argument have been consistently pointing out how wrong everyone is who wants to listen via wires and using the DAC and amplifier built into the phone. You're saying we should change our ways in the name of "progress" and that there is a correct way to enjoy music, and that is your way.

Meanwhile, the other side is arguing that Apple should keep the 3.5 mm jack, keep the lightning port, and keep bluetooth. This in order to enable everyone to use their own favorite mode of listening. This is the exact opposite of projecting ones own preferences onto others.

And FYI, if improving battery life was very important to you, you would not touch BT audio with a ten foot pole. Your imaginary scenario with "all things being equal" between wired and wireless transmission is a fairy tale in violation of the basic physics of transmitting signals with and without wires, respectively. It has no bearing on a rational discussion of the actual alternatives.
 
No, I'm not. I'm looking at this objectively. I don't really have a horse in this race. They can remove the 3.5mm jack or not, I've still got Lightning and Bluetooth. However, count me in the camp that applauds the move if it allows Apple to offer me new technology that makes the iPhone more useful to me, or extended battery life, and/or other benefits to everyone, among which will be lower prices and better quality of Lightning and bluetooth audio devices.

At the end of the day, the objective view is that wireless is the future of audio. All things being equal, using a device with the best quality audio source, producing the best quality audio signal, but still connecting via a wire that tethers the user to the device, can absolutely be improved if that exact same quality signal can be transmitted wirelessly giving the user completely mobility at the same time, without any tradeoffs otherwise (again all things being equal).

Since there's no current objection to bluetooth raised (at least expressed on this thread) that can't be addressed with technology improvements, i.e. no physical limitation to overcoming current deficiencies of the platform, then it's pretty obvious this will be the future. Am I forcing that view on anyone? No. It just is the reality.

Okay, now I know you're joking. You and the others on your side of the argument have been consistently pointing out how wrong everyone is who wants to listen via wires and using the DAC and amplifier built into the phone. You're saying we should change our ways in the name of "progress" and that there is a correct way to enjoy music, and that is your way.

Meanwhile, the other side is arguing that Apple should keep the 3.5 mm jack, keep the lightning port, and keep bluetooth. This in order to enable everyone to use their own favorite mode of listening. This is the exact opposite of projecting ones own preferences onto others.

And FYI, if improving battery life was very important to you, you would not touch BT audio with a ten foot pole. Your imaginary scenario with "all things being equal" between wired and wireless transmission is a fairy tale in violation of the basic physics of transmitting signals with and without wires, respectively. It has no bearing on a rational discussion of the actual alternatives.

Thanks for this post MarkusL. No one is projecting their habits onto everyone else except you Mac128. You currently have bluetooth on your phone, we are not asking Apple to remove bluetooth. You can continue using bluetooth.
But no you would rather Apple remove it and change our habits to match yours. Great.

The main PROS I see you and others posting for removing it is:
1. more space for battery
2.thinner phone
3. waterproof.

Let me break down each "PRO" into why they are not a "PRO"

1. Sure, add 5-10% more in battery size, all the gain will be lost in having to use bluetooth that drains your battery
2. thinner = less space for battery, is thinner really a benefit?
3. there has been many phones that are waterproof WITH a 3.5mm jack. Is Apple that bad they cant make it waterproof with a 3.5 mm like Samsung and Sony?

Now with this in mind. Could you please tell me what are the benefits of removing the 3.5 mm jack? Since the 3 "pros" above are not benefits...unless you want to count being thinner as one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: yep-sure
The only benefit I see (and I use this term loosely) is that Apple may feel that they cannot reduce the comparatively large bezel on the bottom of the phone without removing the headphone jack there (which is almost exactly the height of that bezel). If they have some future plan to make a near bezel-less phone with an integrated touch-id while keeping the overall thickness about where they are at now, they may feel the jack has to go. That's asking a lot though to make that trade-off worthwhile. The current touch-id is flawless and can be found 100% of the time by feel alone. I don't want a virtual button. And getting rid of the headphone jack to reduce the size of the phone is not a trade-off I think most people would be happy to make.

Unfortunately what happens in almost any industry - and this is especially apparent in tech - both in hardware and in software - is eventually a product matures to the point where it becomes increasingly difficult to change it year over year in any way that is meaningful enough to drive sales. So companies start to throw all sorts of changes out there to see what sticks to prop up sales. This, I fear, may be the stage that Apple is approaching with the iPhone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tycho24
^ exactly my point. Marketability is the focus instead of user experience.

It feels like that this is a change designed just to sell phones. Change for changes sake. Like a curved screen on TV's.
 
I'd bet they won't bring it back on the 7s. Once Apple gets rid of something, they usually don't bring it back. Look at 30-pin connectors. Once 2012 rolled around, any new products from then on had lightning connectors. I really hope this isn't true though.
You rather have the jack?
 
Question for those that know more about BlueTooth headphones than me - are there many sets that also offer the microphone input and quick play/pause/skip/volume functionality as existing wired headphones do?
 
^ exactly my point. Marketability is the focus instead of user experience.

It feels like that this is a change designed just to sell phones. Change for changes sake. Like a curved screen on TV's.
You know what would be cool? A curved screen on the next iPhone. Sure, the phone itself would be terrible, but the threads on this forum would be hilarious with people trying to defend it. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: yep-sure
Yes, I'd rather have the jack, as I use wired headphones and earbuds.

And the idea of continuing to use them happily & working perfectly with a free included adapter is somehow abhorrent to you because.....????
[doublepost=1452253791][/doublepost]
As for the iPhone being "a fairly high-end full-featured music device", I'm not sure what that has to do with having a 3.5mm jack. That's like saying you consider the MacBook Pro to be a film high-end full-featured networking device, but the fact people now have to use an adapter to connect to the universally accepted, and superior-to-wifi-in-every-way, industry standard, makes it any less so.

Good comparison!
Wifi is more convenient, yet wired internet is superior in "every other way". (IN YOUR OWN WORDS)
This makes it EXACTLY like bt vs. wired audio.
Soooooo.... since we shouldn't call for people to never use superior internet again, we shouldn't call for people to never use superior audio again.
Saying in your post: "you obviously love wires" is churlish & immature. Do people using wired internet "love wires"?? Hell no. However, it DOES provide the highest quality experience.
We all wish "all things equal" WAS a reality & both wifi data and wifi audio could compete qualitywise with wired... but they can't.
I for one, have ZERO issue using an adapter. I want both thinner devices AND ability to use my legacy headphones. Sounds like I'm going to get it, so I'm not complaining!
But, I'm also not pointing other to bt audio as "the logical choice of the future" or whatever you're painting it as.
802.11b was ratified in 1999 & ushered in wireless as mainstream. That was 17 years ago, yet you still describe wired internet as "superior in every way", so just quit trying to push people at bt. Your one & only valid argument is that the adapter is not a big deal.
[doublepost=1452254079][/doublepost]
The only benefit I see (and I use this term loosely) is that Apple may feel that they cannot reduce the comparatively large bezel on the bottom of the phone without removing the headphone jack there (which is almost exactly the height of that bezel).
Very good point!
We all know that the home button is going away eventually. I hadn't thought of the fact that the audio port would need to move back to the top or go away altogether for that to happen.
 
Last edited:
I don't know about wired headphones, but my car has a USB port in it. Connect my phone and it both powers the phone and connects to the audio system. Best of both worlds!
Mine does too but it only works for the iPod function. I cannot connect it that way and listen to something like Pandora. Would have to use the AUX jack for that.

You are too lazy, it's been addressed by the new standard for lightning; now, next time be less lazy.
Now at least I admitted it up front. I'm usually not that lazy though. I didn't see it in the first two pages and figured it had been answered ad nauseum. I do appreciate that the assumed answer was posted multiple times.

It doesn't really matter much to me though. I'm stuck with a 6s for at least another 16 months or a sudden windfall of cash, whichever occurs first.
 
And the idea of continuing to use them happily & working perfectly with a free included adapter is somehow abhorrent to you because.....?

I don't want to have to worry about an adapter getting lost or broken so I have to shell out $30 to get another. Like I said in another thread, adapters should be used to add additional functionality to a device, like a Lightning to HDMI or Lightning to SD Card Reader. They should not be used to complete a device's functionality that should have been included in the first place (ie headphone jack)
 
Thanks for this post MarkusL. No one is projecting their habits onto everyone else except you Mac128. You currently have bluetooth on your phone, we are not asking Apple to remove bluetooth. You can continue using bluetooth.
But no you would rather Apple remove it and change our habits to match yours. Great.

The main PROS I see you and others posting for removing it is:
1. more space for battery
2.thinner phone
3. waterproof.

Let me break down each "PRO" into why they are not a "PRO"

1. Sure, add 5-10% more in battery size, all the gain will be lost in having to use bluetooth that drains your battery
2. thinner = less space for battery, is thinner really a benefit?
3. there has been many phones that are waterproof WITH a 3.5mm jack. Is Apple that bad they cant make it waterproof with a 3.5 mm like Samsung and Sony?

Now with this in mind. Could you please tell me what are the benefits of removing the 3.5 mm jack? Since the 3 "pros" above are not benefits...unless you want to count being thinner as one.

Removing that port wouldn't make the phone any thinner. The iPod has the port and is thinner. Obviously something else is making the iPhone thicker than the iPod.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blaze4G
Good comparison!
Wifi is more convenient, yet wired internet is superior in "every other way". (IN YOUR OWN WORDS)
This makes it EXACTLY like bt vs. wired audio.
Soooooo.... since we shouldn't call for people to never use superior internet again, we shouldn't call for people to never use superior audio again.
Saying in your post: "you obviously love wires" is churlish & immature. Do people using wired internet "love wires"?? Hell no. However, it DOES provide the highest quality experience.
We all wish "all things equal" WAS a reality & both wifi data and wifi audio could compete qualitywise with wired... but they can't.
I for one, have ZERO issue using an adapter. I want both thinner devices AND ability to use my legacy headphones. Sounds like I'm going to get it, so I'm not complaining!
But, I'm also not pointing other to bt audio as "the logical choice of the future" or whatever you're painting it as.
802.11b was ratified in 1999 & ushered in wireless as mainstream. That was 17 years ago, yet you still describe wired internet as "superior in every way", so just quit trying to push people at bt. Your one & only valid argument is that the adapter is not a big deal.

Sorry to disagree. First of all, Apple has taken the Ethernet port from my MacBook PRO, requiring me to use an adapter. Now why would they do that if it were far superior to Wifi, as we both agree is the case? Apple also prevents me from connecting my iPad, iPhone and iPod Touch to Ethernet, even with an adapter. So, same question -- why would Apple deny me the ability to use the "superior internet" if I chose? The only Apple products that still have Ethernet ports are desktop Macs, and the TV, all of which are meant to be installed in fixed locations. So there's the common connection -- Apple has removed the Ethernet connector on all mobile devices. Now maybe at one time, listening to audio was once the exclusive provence of the couch set, putting on an album and sitting back to absorb the music for 20 minutes. Or sitting in an easy chair a couple of feet away tethered to an amp, listening through headphones. But no more. Audio is mobile. It's on our iPods, our iPhones, iPads, and Macs. People are increasingly playing back music over bluetooth equipment, at home and in their cars, able to walk around and do other things as they listen to music. They are mobile. And while it's easy to say a wired headphone is not a big deal with an iPod shuffle which can just be clipped to a person's clothing, that convenience starts to disappear when a larger iPhone must be strapped to an arm, or worn in a belt holster, to say nothing of an iPad, a MacBook, or an iMac. If someone needs to listen to music privately, that shouldn't necessarily mean they need to sit in place to do it. Or unplug if they need to move around, or even carry their device with them as they move.

So for starters, my position is not that BT is "the logical choice of the future" but rather wireless is the future of audio, as it is for everything. Right now, BT is the standard, who knows what it will be in the future. Unfortunately your argument on all fronts is grounded in what is possible today. Yes Wifi is still lagging behind Ethernet, but because wireless internet is in demand, great strides are being made to close the gap. But why would anyone opt for an inferior experience? Obviously, it's for the convenience of portability. Isn't it amazing what people will tolerate in order to use Wifi, or LTE, to say nothing of what people were willing to tolerate in 1998 when wifi was introduced? And the same is true for for audio. So what's the difference? Wireless audio is slow to improve, and it's expensive, mainly because the demand is so low. And why is the demand low? Because people don't have to look for another alternative, because every product they buy has an inexpensive, ubiquitous standard that's been around for over 100 years. Ethernet has never been inexpensive for the average consumer, who typically opted for much less expensive and reliable dialup modems which were the standard at the time. And when wifi came around, the commercial demand for conevenience drove the price down and improvements up. Necessity is the mother of invention, and until wireless audio is in greater demand, prices will remain unaffordable for most, and improvements will be marginal. Giving customers a reason to switch drives development in wireless audio, which in the end is what's best for everyone. In the meantime, anybody who wants the absolute highest quality audio they can get out of an iPhone, will have an adapter, just like I do for Ethernet on my MacBook Pro. And one day, just like Wifi will offer me the same experience as a wired Ethernet connector, so will wireless audio over the wired 3.5mm connector, or Lightning connector, and everyone will benefit from that over being tethered to something with a wire.

And again, I'm not pushing BT on anybody. If Apple does this, it's Apple who's trying to move people toward the inevitable future of audio. I'm just trying to look at it from their perspective, and address the argument that there is no improvement over the 3.5mm audio jack, which is clearly not true -- being free of wires is a massive improvement, and perhaps the only justifiable one in consumer audio. The tradeoffs involved at any point in the development of a technology are the only issue. But the end result is inevitable. If Apple does this, they're doing it for the same reasons they've been perceived as dropping legacy technology prematurely over the years -- to speed the development of a superior user experience. And wireless is that new standard for audio.

Removing that port wouldn't make the phone any thinner. The iPod has the port and is thinner. Obviously something else is making the iPhone thicker than the iPod.

You're not thinking "4th dimensionally" as Doc Brown would say. Well at least 3 dimensionally. It's not about the height of the 3.5mm connector, which currently limits the thickness of a device to about 5mm when you factor in housing and case thickness. The iPhone is a good 2mm away from crossing that threshold for the connector thickness to matter. But that doesn't mean removing it won't allow them to make the iPhone thinner. The 3.5mm jack takes up a whopping 184 cubic mm inside the phone, and only provides a single function, which happens to have 2 redundant ports capable of much more than audio. What happens then, is that volume is reclaimed by spreading out other components, which allows them to be thinner, and thus the entire phone. Or alternately, and more importantly, they are able to add additional features, or battery capacity, which they previously didn't have room for without increasing the size of the phone.

Of course the benefits of adding any additional battery should be evident, but in terms of the trade-off for the 3.5mm adapter, the gains would help offset battery use for those already using BT, and make using BT more palatable to those who don't use it presently due to the impact on battery life. And considering Apple has consistently made gains in battery life since the first iPhone, even reducing battery capacity in the 6S while retaining the same battery life, I have to think Apple wouldn't do this if there wasn't a significant improvement. For those who don't don't want any hit on battery life, there's an adapter, and they will still benefit from much longer battery life.

For me waterproofing is the least of the concerns here, and I'm not even sure why anyone is mentioning it in connection with the 3.5mm jack removal, however, it can only help. The main benefits are going to be adding features, while reducing redundant technology, improving battery life, promoting development and improvement of wireless audio technologies, resulting from increased competition which will lower the price of these new technologies, which ultimately benefits consumers in the form of more choice, cost and convenience. And all of this without changing the size of the iPhone significantly, allowing Apple to remain competitive in the marketplace.
 
Sorry to disagree. First of all, Apple has taken the Ethernet port from my MacBook PRO, requiring me to use an adapter. Now why would they do that if it were far superior to Wifi, as we both agree is the case? Apple also prevents me from connecting my iPad, iPhone and iPod Touch to Ethernet, even with an adapter. So, same question -- why would Apple deny me the ability to use the "superior internet" if I chose? The only Apple products that still have Ethernet ports are desktop Macs, and the TV, all of which are meant to be installed in fixed locations. So there's the common connection -- Apple has removed the Ethernet connector on all mobile devices. Now maybe at one time, listening to audio was once the exclusive provence of the couch set, putting on an album and sitting back to absorb the music for 20 minutes. Or sitting in an easy chair a couple of feet away tethered to an amp, listening through headphones. But no more. Audio is mobile. It's on our iPods, our iPhones, iPads, and Macs. People are increasingly playing back music over bluetooth equipment, at home and in their cars, able to walk around and do other things as they listen to music. They are mobile. And while it's easy to say a wired headphone is not a big deal with an iPod shuffle which can just be clipped to a person's clothing, that convenience starts to disappear when a larger iPhone must be strapped to an arm, or worn in a belt holster, to say nothing of an iPad, a MacBook, or an iMac. If someone needs to listen to music privately, that shouldn't necessarily mean they need to sit in place to do it. Or unplug if they need to move around, or even carry their device with them as they move.

So for starters, my position is not that BT is "the logical choice of the future" but rather wireless is the future of audio, as it is for everything. Right now, BT is the standard, who knows what it will be in the future. Unfortunately your argument on all fronts is grounded in what is possible today. Yes Wifi is still lagging behind Ethernet, but because wireless internet is in demand, great strides are being made to close the gap. But why would anyone opt for an inferior experience? Obviously, it's for the convenience of portability. Isn't it amazing what people will tolerate in order to use Wifi, or LTE, to say nothing of what people were willing to tolerate in 1998 when wifi was introduced? And the same is true for for audio. So what's the difference? Wireless audio is slow to improve, and it's expensive, mainly because the demand is so low. And why is the demand low? Because people don't have to look for another alternative, because every product they buy has an inexpensive, ubiquitous standard that's been around for over 100 years. Ethernet has never been inexpensive for the average consumer, who typically opted for much less expensive and reliable dialup modems which were the standard at the time. And when wifi came around, the commercial demand for conevenience drove the price down and improvements up. Necessity is the mother of invention, and until wireless audio is in greater demand, prices will remain unaffordable for most, and improvements will be marginal. Giving customers a reason to switch drives development in wireless audio, which in the end is what's best for everyone. In the meantime, anybody who wants the absolute highest quality audio they can get out of an iPhone, will have an adapter, just like I do for Ethernet on my MacBook Pro. And one day, just like Wifi will offer me the same experience as a wired Ethernet connector, so will wireless audio over the wired 3.5mm connector, or Lightning connector, and everyone will benefit from that over being tethered to something with a wire.

And again, I'm not pushing BT on anybody. If Apple does this, it's Apple who's trying to move people toward the inevitable future of audio. I'm just trying to look at it from their perspective, and address the argument that there is no improvement over the 3.5mm audio jack, which is clearly not true -- being free of wires is a massive improvement, and perhaps the only justifiable one in consumer audio. The tradeoffs involved at any point in the development of a technology are the only issue. But the end result is inevitable. If Apple does this, they're doing it for the same reasons they've been perceived as dropping legacy technology prematurely over the years -- to speed the development of a superior user experience. And wireless is that new standard for audio.



You're not thinking "4th dimensionally" as Doc Brown would say. Well at least 3 dimensionally. It's not about the height of the 3.5mm connector, which currently limits the thickness of a device to about 5mm when you factor in housing and case thickness. The iPhone is a good 2mm away from crossing that threshold for the connector thickness to matter. But that doesn't mean removing it won't allow them to make the iPhone thinner. The 3.5mm jack takes up a whopping 184 cubic mm inside the phone, and only provides a single function, which happens to have 2 redundant ports capable of much more than audio. What happens then, is that volume is reclaimed by spreading out other components, which allows them to be thinner, and thus the entire phone. Or alternately, and more importantly, they are able to add additional features, or battery capacity, which they previously didn't have room for without increasing the size of the phone.

Of course the benefits of adding any additional battery should be evident, but in terms of the trade-off for the 3.5mm adapter, the gains would help offset battery use for those already using BT, and make using BT more palatable to those who don't use it presently due to the impact on battery life. And considering Apple has consistently made gains in battery life since the first iPhone, even reducing battery capacity in the 6S while retaining the same battery life, I have to think Apple wouldn't do this if there wasn't a significant improvement. For those who don't don't want any hit on battery life, there's an adapter, and they will still benefit from much longer battery life.

For me waterproofing is the least of the concerns here, and I'm not even sure why anyone is mentioning it in connection with the 3.5mm jack removal, however, it can only help. The main benefits are going to be adding features, while reducing redundant technology, improving battery life, promoting development and improvement of wireless audio technologies, resulting from increased competition which will lower the price of these new technologies, which ultimately benefits consumers in the form of more choice, cost and convenience. And all of this without changing the size of the iPhone significantly, allowing Apple to remain competitive in the marketplace.

And none of that explains how the iPod is thinner and has everything you mentioned.
 
And none of that explains how the iPod is thinner and has everything you mentioned.
First, it's not about making the iPhone thinner. But it's definitely about not making it thicker. Nor, does it mean that can't go thinner a well.

Second, let me distill my previous post -- if the thickest component in an iPhone determines the thickness of the phone, then it stands to reason if that component can be spread out to be wider, rather than thicker, then the overall thickness of the phone can be reduced. By removing the 3.5mm jack, other components can be spread out into the new space, new components can be added without changing anything, and old components can be enlarged, or some combination of the three.

Now to address the iPod specifically -- can the iPod do everything the the same as the iPhone? Does the iPod have the same internal parts that the iPhone does? No. Not as many components, doesn't do as much, therefore it can be thinner. The components can be spread out and made thinner. Simple.
 
First, it's not about making the iPhone thinner. But it's definitely about not making it thicker. Nor, does it mean that can't go thinner a well.

Second, let me distill my previous post -- if the thickest component in an iPhone determines the thickness of the phone, then it stands to reason if that component can be spread out to be wider, rather than thicker, then the overall thickness of the phone can be reduced. By removing the 3.5mm jack, other components can be spread out into the new space, new components can be added without changing anything, and old components can be enlarged, or some combination of the three.

Now to address the iPod specifically -- can the iPod do everything the the same as the iPhone? Does the iPod have the same internal parts that the iPhone does? No. Not as many components, doesn't do as much, therefore it can be thinner. The components can be spread out and made thinner. Simple.

The thickest part of the 6S+ seems to be the camera. If they want it to be thinner, that's their choking point.
 
  • Like
Reactions: APlotdevice
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.