MysticTalisman
macrumors member
Please look at EU and other country's legal decisions and you will see I am objectively correct.
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Supreme Court Lets Apple Delay App Store Fee Fight for 24 Hours
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It’s an unfair and anti-competative contract which Apple don’t negotiate on. That’s entirely the point. Apple were acting against consumer interests.
AppliedMicro
macrumors 68040
Yes. As in prohibiting linking out.
Yes. As in 30% for purchases on their own store - and 0% on purchases elsewhere.
That have been the going rates for …forever, basically.
The day has arrived where we completely agree.
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I’m not sure I agree 30% is reasonable. Take the example of book publishing someone mentioned earlier, someone has to proof read, edit, lay out, print and ship physical books. What does Apple actually contribute in the App store? It’s essentially hosting a very small file for download and processing card payments. Is that really worth half as much as a developer coming up with an idea, writing code, testing etc? It’s been shown time and again that the only “checks” that are effective in the app store are censorship and enforcement of anticompetitive rules, so I don’t buy the security argument. People only need that hosting because Apple prevent downloads from developers directly, also anticompetitive.
I’d say 5% would be more appropriate, and I’m being generous.
gleepskip
Suspended
I don't disagree, but the market has decided it's completely fine for Apple to take 1/3rd of the gross revenue. Tons of apps are added daily under the same agreement.
The commission includes more than that. AI response.
Overview of Apple's App Store Commission
Apple's App Store commission is primarily designed to cover various operational costs associated with hosting and managing apps on its platform. Here are the key components that the commission supports:Key Costs Covered by the Commission
| Hosting and Distribution | Covers the infrastructure needed to host apps and deliver them to users. |
| App Updates | Supports the process of updating apps to ensure they remain functional and secure. |
| Developer Tools | Provides access to essential tools like Xcode, which developers use to create apps. |
| Analytics | Offers analytics services that help developers understand app performance and user engagement. |
| Fraud Protection | Includes measures to protect against fraudulent activities and ensure secure transactions. |
[th]
Cost Type
[/th][th]Description
[/th]Additional Benefits
- Support Services: Developers receive support for app submission and management.
- Marketing Tools: Access to promotional features that help increase app visibility.
- Community Resources: Participation in developer forums and events that foster community engagement.
Not a fair market though, that’s kind of the point. Developers can either get robbed or not be developers.
AppliedMicro
macrumors 68040
I can guarantee you that you frequent businesses that are making much less profit than 15% of revenue.
Supermarkets, restaurants, etc. If they were charged 15% of revenue by their acquirers and payment processors, all other things equal, they’d “suck at business” so much to go broke within probably months.
Apple’s commission rates have been largely uncoupled from their own costs and subject to virtually no competitive pressure.
Thanks Tim Apple.
Hosting costs per app are essentially zero, it’s just a web server. Updates are trivial to implement in app or via script.
Developer tools are a feature of iOS to sell phones. That’s for Apple’s benefit, but since you mentioned it, developers already pay a separate fee for those.
I’ll give you Analytics, but developers could easily get that other ways.
Fraud prevention is an outright lie and Apple miss more than they catch. Mostly they’re just watching to ensure your morals match theirs so no porn even though it’s legal in most locations, and absolutely no competing with ****** Apple apps unless they say so.
No, not if they want to use any features of the phone. Remember who controls the browser experience too…
AppliedMicro
macrumors 68040
On the flip side, it should also account for the benefits third-party developers bring to Apple.
Namely the enabling them to sell mobile hardware devices for billions of dollars with record profit margins, year after year. Which they wouldn’t without the rich ecosystem of third-party apps.
Without third-party developers, Apple would have as much smartphone business as Microsoft today (for very much the same reason).
Which makes a 0% to 5% commission seem very appropriate.
No AI needed for that post.
(side note: Neither would have you, given how your AI just regurgitated Apple’s own spin on the matter)
It does not cost Apple that much to provide those things, some of which Apple already charges developers an upfront fee for.
IIGS User
macrumors 68000
I hear Apple has some awesome lawyers. So good, they’re even making a network TV show loosely based around all this information litigation.
Ya know, when you’re the “king” everyone is coming for a piece of you. But, as they saying goes. If you’re gonna go after the king, you better kill him. Because now all you have is a pissed off king and YOU are his target.
Ya know, when you’re the “king” everyone is coming for a piece of you. But, as they saying goes. If you’re gonna go after the king, you better kill him. Because now all you have is a pissed off king and YOU are his target.
Software margins usually are 70%+, it wouldn’t be unusual for Apple to be making that much.
Check his linked in history. He's a software engineer. Unless he's a manager (he did not say he was, so it's safe to assume he's not), he doesn't know the full extent of the costs of running the developer program.
He left out one obvious high cost item: MapKit. iOS/iPadOS have unlimited use of Maps. Facebook with billions of users get free mapping which would normally cost them millions of dollars per month if they used Google Maps.
The judge found Apple in willful noncompliance, bad faith, and contempt. She did not make a legal finding of “malicious compliance”; that phrase does not appear in the order. You’re using your own characterization as though it were the court’s judgment. Legally, semantics matter. Stating “malicious compliance” as a fact doesn’t make it true. Just stick with the actual terms used in the judgments and you might not receive as many downvotes.
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So the people in countries where their maps suck should get a massive discount then?
Forcing features on people and then charging them is not OK. Ask Microsoft how that one plays out.
The EU aren’t likely to change direction any time soon. Quite the contrary
No. Google Maps doesn't even do this.
Apple didn't force the feature. Third party developers are free to use Google Maps if they want to pay for it.
you have the choice of buying an android, one where you can own the hardware and do what you want with it.
surferfb
macrumors 68030
It’s not though.
99% of developers pay 15%. Take the list of things @MrSnirf ‘s tweet put together at face value (which is almost certainly understating Apple’s costs) and that’s 8% right there. So for 99% of Apps, Apple’s commission is 7%.
Hosting costs are not “essentially zero”. It’s likely tens to hundreds of millions a year across the App Store. Apps like Facebook and Netflix and Spotify likely are millions of dollars each. And fraud protection isn’t an outright lie. Apple catches far, far more fraud than it misses. Could it be better? Sure. But show me any source saying there is more fraud on the App Store than this.
Apple blocked over $11 billion in App Store fraud in 6 years
Apple revealed that it blocked over $11 billion in fraudulent App Store transactions over the last six years, more than $2.2 billion in potentially fraudulent App Store transactions in 2025 alone.
Apple is absolutely acting in their customers’ interests with this model. It significantly increases the safety and security of iOS devices. Here's a 2023 survey paper citing McAfee data report 2.34M mobile malware cases, of which only 389 were on iOS. The reason that is the case is precisely because of the App Store model.
It also forces to developers to offer consumer-friendly features they otherwise wouldn’t like subscription reminders, easy cancellation, privacy labels, etc.
Two things can be true at the same time: the model is good for Apple’s bottom line and good for consumers.
And if consumers or developers don’t like it, there is plenty of competition! Android exists and is open.