Surface Devices

[SDColorado]

K


Kaz,
Just do it, you'll adjust we all have. Apple's path is clear, yeah it sucks but the only way to revert is to stop feeding the beast. At this point in time Apple would need to pay me to use it's mediocre hardware & software solutions seriously so, and I've been with the Mac for over two decades. It's becoming rank amateur at best...

Q-6

I have reported the issues I have had with Apple products (namely the 2018 MBP) to Consumer Reports. I know they are a mostly toothless organization, but I also know MS didn’t like it much when they made CR’s “not recommended” list in the past and improved.

I wish more people would do the same, both for the MBP, the bent iPads, etc. CR won’t issue a “not recommended” rating unless they receive significant number of complaints to get their attention. My single report doesn’t mean jack

Edit: I think if as many people who post complaining about their experience with Apple products in this forum would take the time to also contact CR, it might get some traction.

 

[DarthVader!]

have told me that they are among the most returned laptops they sell. So that could be a process hahaha

Wow, I hadn't realized.

 

[SDColorado]

Wow, I hadn't realized.

Me either. They had a bunch of open-box units and talked me down from buying one. Only the Microsoft Store saying that that "While Razer has questionable QC, they are as good as it gets if you get a good one. But they can be frustrating if you don't. As your agent, we will make sure you get a good one" made me even remotely optimistic about buying one.

But then another poster also pointed out that Amazon has a good return/exchange policy if you buy through them as well.

 

[kazmac]

K


Kaz,
Just do it, you'll adjust we all have. Apple's path is clear, yeah it sucks but the only way to revert is to stop feeding the beast. At this point in time Apple would need to pay me to use it's mediocre hardware & software solutions seriously so, and I've been with the Mac for over two decades. It's becoming rank amateur at best...

Q-6

Done. Bought an HP Spectre 15.6” 360 to replace my iMac. I like the Wacom Bamboo ink pen and the responsiveness, screen and internal specs. It’s the 2018 model, so 8th gen, CPU (I believe it’s i7), GTX 150 graphics (I am aware that’s a lower end graphics card, that’s fine for me), 512 ssd and I think it’s the UHD screen. I kept gravitating to it last night like a magnet. Mainly because it was so responsive and easy to use. I remember Lisa Gade giving these high marks in the past and asking you about it.

I hope I can set it up tonight. The main priorities are testing it for art, documents and content watching/creation, plus tent mode and getting used to Windows. It is not the prettiest Spectre, but it’s still pretty cool. I have to find the awesome windows back up tips in this thread and our private conversations.

I may still pick up a Surface Pro 6 on sale for a true portable (the HP is my desktop replacement), especially if I like the art apps and the Wacom Bamboo ink pen works with the machine.

Getting conflicting info about Wacom Bamboo Ink pens working with the new Surface products. Best Buy says no, but MS chat said yes.

At any rate, I’ve been uneasy with Apple for two years now, and very annoyed for five. I cannot keep giving them chances and money when they 1) cut corners AND raise prices, and have the gaul to 2) treat defects as some kind of special edition thing that customers should be happy with. Not paying more for “cheaper” editions or being completely locked down either.

Frankly, for me, the only great thing Apple released in the last 3 years is the pencil. If MS could make something closer to that and get Procreate to go cross platform, I’d love that. I am very happy Apple said that awful bs about the iPad Pros because that was the last straw for me. After 22 years, I glad to be open minded enough to move past Apple, and grateful to learn new things.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

Done. Bought an HP Spectre 15.6” 360 to replace my iMac. I like the Wacom Bamboo ink pen and the responsiveness, screen and internal specs. It’s the 2018 model, so 8th gen, CPU (I believe it’s i7), GTX 150 graphics (I am aware that’s a lower end graphics card, that’s fine for me), 512 ssd and I think it’s the UHD screen. I kept gravitating to it last night like a magnet. Mainly because it was so responsive and easy to use. I remember Lisa Gade giving these high marks in the past and asking you about it.

I hope I can set it up tonight. The main priorities are testing it for art, documents and content watching/creation, plus tent mode and getting used to Windows. It is not the prettiest Spectre, but it’s still pretty cool. I have to find the awesome windows back up tips in this thread and our private conversations.

I may still pick up a Surface Pro 6 on sale for a true portable (the HP is my desktop replacement), especially if I like the art apps and the Wacom Bamboo ink pen works with the machine.

Getting conflicting info about Wacom Bamboo Ink pens working with the new Surface products. Best Buy says no, but MS chat said yes.

At any rate, I’ve been uneasy with Apple for two years now, and very annoyed for five. I cannot keep giving them chances and money when they 1) cut corners AND raise prices, and have the gaul to 2) treat defects as some kind of special edition thing that customers should be happy with. Not paying more for “cheaper” editions or being completely locked down either.

Frankly, for me, the only great thing Apple released in the last 3 years is the pencil. If MS could make something closer to that and get Procreate to go cross platform, I’d love that. I am very happy Apple said that awful bs about the iPad Pros because that was the last straw for me. After 22 years, I glad to be open minded enough to move past Apple, and grateful to learn new things.

As far as I know, the MS Surface line uses N-trig pen technology (Microsoft actually bought N-trig). N-trig and Wacom are not compatible. A friend of mine has a Wacom Cintiq but that Wacom pen does not work on any of my Surface devices. (Surface pro 2017 and Surface 3, an old model).

 

[SDColorado]

As far as I know, the MS Surface line uses N-trig pen technology (Microsoft actually bought N-trig). N-trig and Wacom are not compatible. A friend of mine has a Wacom Cintiq but that Wacom pen does not work on any of my Surface devices. (Surface pro 2017 and Surface 3, an old model).

That is my understanding as well. So I believe what MS chat told Kaz is incorrect. Lenovo on the other hand I believe does work with the Wacom Bamboo pen, but I might be wrong on that.

 

[kazmac]

That is my understanding as well. So I believe what MS chat told Kaz is incorrect. Lenovo on the other hand I believe does work with the Wacom Bamboo pen, but I might be wrong on that.

Okay. I think you are correct about MS making different style nibs for the Surface Pen though. I will definitely ask the next time I go to that store.

As far as I know, the MS Surface line uses N-trig pen technology (Microsoft actually bought N-trig). N-trig and Wacom are not compatible. A friend of mine has a Wacom Cintiq but that Wacom pen does not work on any of my Surface devices. (Surface pro 2017 and Surface 3, an old model).

Thank you very much.

 

[SDColorado]

Okay. I think you are correct about MS making different style nibs for the Surface Pen though. I will definitely ask the next time I go to that store.


Thank you very much.

The nibs I am sure about. They come in a 4 pack, 2H, H, HB and B

I am not sure that they effect anything more than the pen to paper feel though.

But since the pen has to be paired via Bluetooth, I can’t imagine how the Bamboo would work. But maybe call the store rather than chat, which is probably just a call center.

 

[c0ppo]

Okay. I think you are correct about MS making different style nibs for the Surface Pen though. I will definitely ask the next time I go to that store.

When I was using SB2, I noticed that there are some 3rd party nibs out there, that are apparently better then what MS is selling, and they are cheaper. Forgot the name, but they are available on amazon. I'm sure you can google that one up easily.

 

[kazmac]

The nibs I am sure about. They come in a 4 pack, 2H, H, HB and B

I am not sure that they effect anything more than the pen to paper feel though.

But since the pen has to be paired via Bluetooth, I can’t imagine how the Bamboo would work. But maybe call the store rather than chat, which is probably just a call center.

Thanks a lot (again). The nibs definitely make me feel better about the Surface Pen.
[doublepost=1545333749][/doublepost]

When I was using SB2, I noticed that there are some 3rd party nibs out there, that are apparently better then what MS is selling, and they are cheaper. Forgot the name, but they are available on amazon. I'm sure you can google that one up easily.

Great to hear.

EDIT:
*Sigh* reading about several issues on HP’s forum and am not keen on the responses from HP. Will return the Spectre to BB for a refund tonight, and just buy a Surface Product from the MS store tomorrow morning with the “complete” warranty. I am worried about my purchase given the reviews I’ve been pouring over.

I might get a Surface Book 2, but not the 256gb drive.

 

[The_Interloper]

The Wacom Bamboo Ink DOES work with Surface devices. See the compatibility page here: https://www.wacom.com/en-gb/comp (the new Pro 6 digitiser is the same as the 2017).

It is a “hybrid” Windows Ink stylus, compatible with both Wacoms’s own AES technology and N-Trig devices via the Microsoft Pen Protocol (MPP). It doesn’t use Wacom’s older EMR tech (hence why it doesn’t work with a Cintiq, as mentioned above).

 

[kazmac]

The Wacom Bamboo Ink DOES work with Surface devices. See the compatibility page here: https://www.wacom.com/en-gb/comp (the new Pro 6 digitiser is the same as the 2017).

It is a “hybrid” Windows Ink stylus, compatible with both Wacoms’s own AES technology and N-Trig devices via the Microsoft Pen Protocol (MPP). It doesn’t use Wacom’s older EMR tech (hence why it doesn’t work with a Cintiq, as mentioned above).

Thank you very much. I will just buy one of each pen at MS tomorrow.

 

[SDColorado]

Thanks a lot (again). The nibs definitely make me feel better about the Surface Pen.
[doublepost=1545333749][/doublepost]
Great to hear.

EDIT:
*Sigh* reading about several issues on HP’s forum and am not keen on the responses from HP. Will return the Spectre to BB for a refund tonight, and just buy a Surface Product from the MS store tomorrow morning with the “complete” warranty. I am worried about my purchase given the reviews I’ve been pouring over.

I might get a Surface Book 2, but not the 256gb drive.

Surface Book 2 is a great computer. The keyboard is awesome. Touch bad excellent. The screen is bright, vivid and clear. One thing I was a little slow on realizing for some reason, is that you can plug the power adapter into just the tablet part. For some stupid reason, I thought the tablet bit was battery only hahaha. It takes a bit of getting used to looking at the battery percentage since it is shown as overall as they broke down into battery 1 and battery 2, but the bottom line is battery life is crazy good.
[doublepost=1545340368][/doublepost]

The Wacom Bamboo Ink DOES work with Surface devices. See the compatibility page here: https://www.wacom.com/en-gb/comp (the new Pro 6 digitiser is the same as the 2017)..

Interesting. Thanks for the update on this. I would not have thought that it would

 

[GoldfishRT]

It's kind of hard to find information on whether the $300 upcharge to the i7 is worth it on the Surface Laptop 2. Anybody have any insight?

Getting the i5 for $1000 seems like a real steal. Makes some of the issues more forgivable, and obviously this Book 2 is 70% more expensive!

 

[SDColorado]

Surface Pro 6 Beats New iPad Pro in Bend Test

It’s crazy how easily the iPad bends and how fast it gave up the ghost. If you watch both videos, the SP6 display is still working even after he completely cuts it out with a box cutter and removes it

https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/surface-pro-6-ipad-pro-bend-test

 

[SDColorado]

It's kind of hard to find information on whether the $300 upcharge to the i7 is worth it on the Surface Laptop 2. Anybody have any insight?

Getting the i5 for $1000 seems like a real steal. Makes some of the issues more forgivable, and obviously this Book 2 is 70% more expensive!

Digital Trends did a comparison article between the two. I think for most folks the i5 is sufficient and the better bang for the buck...

https://www.digitaltrends.com/compu...MIudaezPev3wIVsx-tBh0o5gZZEAAYASAAEgKRrPD_BwE

 

[Queen6]

Thanks a lot (again). The nibs definitely make me feel better about the Surface Pen.
[doublepost=1545333749][/doublepost]
Great to hear.

EDIT:
*Sigh* reading about several issues on HP’s forum and am not keen on the responses from HP. Will return the Spectre to BB for a refund tonight, and just buy a Surface Product from the MS store tomorrow morning with the “complete” warranty. I am worried about my purchase given the reviews I’ve been pouring over.

I might get a Surface Book 2, but not the 256gb drive.

Stretch to the 256 or greater, you wont regret it. Personally I never had any issue with my Surface Book, nor has my daughter had since I passed it to her and she's only 14.

As my mobility need changes I'll opt for another Surface Book with very little if any consideration; 15" Gen 3.

Q-6

 

[Dave245]

Glad you’re enjoying the Surface Pro 6. I can see why. I keep thinking about it. I know the HP can scratch a lot of the iPP consumption itches, but there’s no way it’s leaving my house unless it has to.

Glad you got a replacement iPad Pro too (seems like Apple are getting ridiculous with replacements as well).

Now to back pedal in this thread for tips as far as Windows10 itself.

Thanks everyone. It is so helpful to read this thread. Looking forward to learning something new and seeing what else is out there. I expect MS to keep improving on the Surface line.

i genuinely think it's a better computer replacement than the iPad Pro, the problem is that the iPad Pro is stuck at being a tablet, while the Surface Pro is a tablet looking device that's actually a computer.

With the Surface i can take notes a lot better (in fact i do this regularly) for example if i'm working on a story idea i can quickly type up some notes, if for example i'm browsing the web and i see something interesting as part of research or something that sparks my interest, i can quickly grab the Surface Pen and circle or annotate right on the webpage before ether saying it to One Note or sending it to someone for their opinion.

A full desktop OS in tablet form is just great, Apple really need to move away from having just the iPad. The Surface is now my portable computer while the iPad has been demoted to just consumption device at home. The Surface is my favourite portable machine to use, this is coming from someone who is a long time Apple user. Apple are very stubborn and i don't think they realise just how useful the Surface Pro really is.

Windows 10 can actually do a lot of things, it does them well, so far its even surprisingly snappy with no shut downs or issues of any kind. I especially love being able to use split screen and multiple apps at the same time.

 

[kazmac]

Surface Book 2 is a great computer. The keyboard is awesome. Touch bad excellent. The screen is bright, vivid and clear. One thing I was a little slow on realizing for some reason, is that you can plug the power adapter into just the tablet part. For some stupid reason, I thought the tablet bit was battery only hahaha. It takes a bit of getting used to looking at the battery percentage since it is shown as overall as they broke down into battery 1 and battery 2, but the bottom line is battery life is crazy good.

Oh that is great to hear.

Stretch to the 256 or greater, you wont regret it. Personally I never had any issue with my Surface Book, nor has my daughter had since I passed it to her and she's only 14.

As my mobility need changes I'll opt for another Surface Book with very little if any consideration; 15" Gen 3.

Q-6

i genuinely think it's a better computer replacement than the iPad Pro, the problem is that the iPad Pro is stuck at being a tablet, while the Surface Pro is a tablet looking device that's actually a computer.

With the Surface i can take notes a lot better (in fact i do this regularly) for example if i'm working on a story idea i can quickly type up some notes, if for example i'm browsing the web and i see something interesting as part of research or something that sparks my interest, i can quickly grab the Surface Pen and circle or annotate right on the webpage before ether saying it to One Note or sending it to someone for their opinion.

A full desktop OS in tablet form is just great, Apple really need to move away from having just the iPad. The Surface is now my portable computer while the iPad has been demoted to just consumption device at home. The Surface is my favourite portable machine to use, this is coming from someone who is a long time Apple user. Apple are very stubborn and i don't think they realise just how useful the Surface Pro really is.

Windows 10 can actually do a lot of things, it does them well, so far its even surprisingly snappy with no shut downs or issues of any kind. I especially love being able to use split screen and multiple apps at the same time.

Glad to hear split screen and multitasking work nicely.

Thanks for posting your workflow.

Glad I did not open that Spectre, the return was painless.

I am debating if I should just grab a SP6 today (the weather is horrid though) and wait a little while for an SB2 or a mid tier SS2. I have a very intensive class to get through in January, and I need to research and test my main machine a little more before jumping in. My usage is documents (Word), school (online), video conversion (DVD’s and digital to mp4), Affinity apps once I teach myself to use them, screenplay software and art. Plus, the usual consumption.

Anyway, this is exciting. I feel a huge weight lifted from my shoulders in regard to my future machines and I am looking forward to learning w10.

 

[Dave245]

Glad to hear split screen and multitasking work nicely.

Thanks for posting your workflow.

Glad I did not open that Spectre, the return was painless.

I am debating if I should just grab a SP6 today (the weather is horrid though) and wait a little while for an SB2 or a mid tier SS2. I have a very intensive class to get through in January, and I need to research and test my main machine a little more before jumping in. My usage is documents (Word), school (online), video conversion (DVD’s and digital to mp4), Affinity apps once I teach myself to use them, screenplay software and art. Plus, the usual consumption.

Anyway, this is exciting. I feel a huge weight lifted from my shoulders in regard to my future machines and I am looking forward to learning w10.

I would say get the Surface Pro 6, it's very versatile at what it can do. I brought the Surface Pro 6 in the Black Friday deal here in the U.K it came with the Alcantara type cover which is really nice the Surface Pen i brought off of Amazon because it was also on offer at the time.

I don't regret purchasing the Surface Pro 6, i could of waited until next year but i'm glad i made the jump when i did. Microsoft are rumoured to be heavily redesigning the Surface for the 7th version, however i will more than likely sit that one out incase there are any defects or product issues. BUT if it's a BIG update that's wroth it then i may make the jump a few months later and sell my current Pro 6.

Anyway back to my point, the Surface Pro 6 is a great machine, it can be used at you're desk (where i'm currently using mine) on the sofa or even in bed, the kickstand can be moved down to an almost flat position, it may seem trivial BUT when you actually try the kickstand out for yourself you will see just how great it is to have a device that can be used at almost any angle. Being able to remove the keyboard is as simple as pulling it away (it attaches via magnets) it's so simple for when you don't need the keyboard, the Pro 6 will then ask you if you would like to go into tablet mode, tap yes and there you are a tablet, attach the keyboard again, you're asked to go back into desktop mode tap yes and you can start typing away or playing a Windows game.

For what you have described i would say get the Surface Pro 6, if you don't like it you can return it, but so far i love mine.

 

[SDColorado]

Glad I did not open that Spectre, the return was painless.

Don't be afraid to open it and use it. Whether with the Spectre or any other computer.

Take full advantage of the 30-day return policy. You're not going to find out whether or not it works for you until you set it up and spend some time with it.

If it doesn't work out a return should be painless open or not as long as you are within the 30 days. Best Buy shouldn't give you any grief, though I do think they have a tendency to question and try to talk you out of it or see if they can resolve it first. But they do always take in back in my experience.

The Microsoft Store definitely will not give you any grief, from my experience. I have made so many returns there, trying to get dialed in on the SP when I purchased it. Mostly my fault because I really had absolutely no idea what I wanted after all those years of having Macs and a little theirs because they have a tendency to undersell rather than oversell. But they kept taking them back no questions asked about the returns.

 

[kazmac]

Glad to hear about returns at MS. Re:HP and Best Buy, they were very good with the iPad Pro return and I am sure they would have taken this back too. But I had a nagging feeling about the HP which was confirmed when I looked at their support forums and reviews.

I am seeing the SP6 as an introductory laptop and tablet. Curious to see how it will meet my work and creative flows. If I can use it for most things especially school work, I might wait for an SB3 as far as the main machine. All of my desktop software is available for Windows, it is just Procreate that isn’t available for the tablet end of things.

I will adjust no problem.

Will test an SB2 15” as well, but I am thinking go with the SP6 to get my feet and ankles wet (more than they are right now).

 

[SDColorado]

It may be a wait for the SB3 if past release history is any indicator. That could end up being an October 2019 date. But Microsoft has broken out of their release date schedules before and since it was the only one not updated in any way this past October, it is possible that it could come earlier, but not expected. The most predicted changes are a newer processor and the addition of a USB-C port and likely an option of black.

 

[SDColorado]

I see that Best Buy has a pre-holiday "last-minute" sales event. Currently, they have among other things, all Surface Pro models on sale. The biggest savings comes with the i5/256GB model where you can save $330

 

[kazmac]

I see that Best Buy has a pre-holiday "last-minute" sales event. Currently, they have among other things, all Surface Pro models on sale. The biggest savings comes with the i5/256GB model where you can save $330

I actually picked up a more robust SP6 at the MS store (Did I really need 16gb / 512 probably not, but that’s where I went). Some very good deals and I got 10-20% student discounts on all the accessories and the complete warranty. I figure I will use this for two years.

The SB2 is gorgeous: felt great and I love it, but at least grand savings, black casing and portability won out today. If I find I need more horse power, easy peasy just swap.

Perhaps if there is a serious markdown on the 15” with the 512gb drive, I’ll consider it down the line. Because drawing on that 15” display, um, yeah! That hinge is soooo cool. Typing on it is great and I really enjoyed the experience. I’d love one with 32gb of RAM though.

I asked about the Wacom Bamboo, and the sales associate said yes they do work, but the pen feels better on the Surface Screen. Of course up sell. That’s okay, I got the SP nibs too. I realize some of my issues with the pen were on an app by app basis as the pencil setting thickness in Paint3D was scalable in Paint, but not in Word.

Anyway, will set up when I get home tonight. Now I have to earn money to start to pay for this baby.

Thanks everyone.