Survey Sees Pent-Up iPad Demand, Some Cannibalization of Other Apple Products

[deckwalker]

So we're arguing a mythical case using incorrect data?

They already have a large iPod touch/iPhone user base, in fact sales are tapering off, so they feel now is a good time to release another hardware device.

You're right, there's a huge iPhone (I don't have specific iPod Touch data) user base - about 42.5 million iPhones out there.

You're wrong though that the iPhone sales are tapering off. Apple sold 8.7 million iPhones in the last quarter - 1.4 million more than any other quarter. I'm not sure how that's considered tapering off?

Perhaps you meant iPods are tapering off? That could be true, but Classics and Nanos and Shuffles don't use the App store so their sales are irrelevant to your argument, and Apple doesn't release separate iPT sales figures that I'm aware of.

Ooh, yeah, well, after we let developers keep 80% profit on all paid iPad apps but kept iPad apps at 70%, they've stopped developing for iPhone for some reason.

Interesting theory, but what is it based on? Your conjecture? If it's only conjecture then it has little validity in determining the actual future of application development.


So examining the facts, here's what we have: an installed user base of over 42 million on a platform (the iPhone) that is still developing and growing. That's a huge market for developers. It's therefore a valid logical conclusion that developers will continue to craft applications.

@lifeinhd you obviously don't see the need for an iPad and I assume you won't be buying one. That's cool. You make a lot of interesting observations in your arguments (heck, I've actually read all 10 pages of this discussion, mostly to see what you're going to say next). That's cool too and I've enjoyed it. But when your arguements descend into faulty data and abject conjecture they become even more fatally flawed than you claim the iPad is.

So let's keep the debate grounded in reality shall we?

 

[Brien]

To the guy(s) saying that iPad apps are going to kill the iPhone app market:

Wrong! While I do see developers doing what Apple advised not to do and crafting iPad-specific applications, rather than iPhone/iPad combo apps (and I can't blame them, why sell one app when you can sell two), I think the structure will simply evolve. You'll have the low end (free apps), the mid-end (paid iPhone only apps), and the high-end (iPhone/iPad or iPad-only apps). This of course doesn't include FREE iPad apps, of which I'm sure there will be plenty, but overall that's the way I see things heading.

PS: As a developer myself, I plan on upgrading my paid apps to be iPad compatible, but I'm not planning on doing iPad-only apps in the near future.

 

[charlituna]

Let's say you're a one man iPhone dev who works a 9-to-5 and codes on the weekends. You've already released several apps for the iPhone, and now there's an iPad that you can make even better applications on, thanks to the larger screen. Time is a limited resource, so are you going to concentrate on the more limited iPhone apps or focus on adding every feature you can think of to your iPad app?

eventually you will want to maximize the potential but getting started, just a resize will work for a lot of apps. So that's likely the route they will take.

Also, part of the advantage of the delay in releasing until later in March is factory production time, but it's also app production time. All those apps folks had access to the SDK within hours. And two months to work.

I damn well can read eBooks on my iPod touch if I wanted to, and I don't need to shell out another $500 for Apple should I want to.

As for iWork, I'd rather just use a laptop and get it done in half the time.

Great. Go for it.

And please shut up. Seriously. All your talk is NOT fact. A great deal is opinion. Your opinion. And you have a right to it. But you do not have the right to try to shove it down our throats or call us stupid, morons etc because we haven't bowed down to your opinion.

You don't see the point in an ipad or how it could possibly be useful or worth the money. Fine. Don't buy one. But some of us have different opinions and just as you have the right to yours, we have a right to ours. Agree to disagree and move on back to your laptop and your netbooks and enjoy.

 

[Hmac]

I'm going to assume you're being sarcastic. Ever head of Kindle for iPhone? Or B&N eReader? I damn well can read eBooks on my iPod touch if I wanted to, and I don't need to shell out another $500 for Apple should I want to.

I have both Kindle and eReader for my iPod Touch. It's OK, but not ideal because of the small size. I look forward to the larger screen and being able to read on the iPad.

 

[lifeinhd]

Interesting theory, but what is it based on? Your conjecture? If it's only conjecture then it has little validity in determining the actual future of application development.

Not entirely. It's a well-known fact that Apple cares about selling hardware (at least when it comes to the iPhone/iPod/iPad market), and the only reason they have things such as the App Store or the iTMS is to further the sales of their hardware. There have been several surveys done to see how many people want an iPad, right now that number's around 16%. Obviously, Apple wants to sell a lot more than that, and there's no reason they can't offer extra incentives for either a) people to choose an iPad over an iPod touch or b) developers to develop for iPad over iPhone.

And let's not forget that Apple makes more profit per iPad sold than per iPT sold. If analyst numbers are correct, Apple makes ~2.5 times more profit per iPad sold than per iPT sold. Obviously Apple would prefer to sell iPads.

eventually you will want to maximize the potential but getting started, just a resize will work for a lot of apps. So that's likely the route they will take.

Why bother? People can just download iPhone apps and pixel double. No need to waste time rewriting existing applications for the big screen without using the space better in some way.

And please shut up. Seriously. All your talk is NOT fact. A great deal is opinion. Your opinion. And you have a right to it. But you do not have the right to try to shove it down our throats or call us stupid, morons etc because we haven't bowed down to your opinion.

You can't stand to face the reality that's staring you in the face.

Let's look at the facts:
1. The iPad will not fit in a pocket.
2. eBooks can be read on an iPhone/iPT.
3. The iPad runs a very limited operating system that was designed for use with a 3.5" screen, not a 10" screen with a (slightly) faster processor.
4. The iPad will not multitask (which may have actually made the larger screen useful, but don't regard that statement as fact).
5. Steve Jobs said the iPad is supposed to be the best web surfing device ever, yet it doesn't even have Flash.
6. It has the exact same level of functionality as an iPhone/iPod Touch with the preinstalled apps.
7. Playing HD video will result in HUGE black bars (due to the 4:3 screen)
8. Unlimited 3G service costs $30, which is the same as most phones, making it not such a "breakthrough price" after all.
9. There is no camera.
10. There is no USB.
11. Apple makes more profit per iPad sold than per iPod touch sold (take this with a grain of salt, as we only have analyst price estimates to rely on for now, but it's almost certain Apple makes more than the ~$100 they do on the low-end Touch).
12. Other tablets already exist with far more capabilities than the iPad with similar prices.
13. The iPad lacks pressure sensitivity.
14. The iPad has a glossy display.
15. The iPad doesn't ship with earphones, despite its already high price.
16. Apple will be offering a mechanical keyboard dock with the same type of keyboard found on all their computers.
17. The iPad can do nothing that either an iPod Touch/iPhone or computer cannot (with the only exception being when large-screen, multitouch- or accelerometer-based games come to it).

Let the facts speak for themselves.

You don't see the point in an ipad or how it could possibly be useful or worth the money. Fine. Don't buy one. But some of us have different opinions and just as you have the right to yours, we have a right to ours. Agree to disagree and move on back to your laptop and your netbooks and enjoy.

All sales of the iPad will do is serve to inflate Apple's ego. If they can pull off selling a pointless device, they can do anything. Soon, they'll start adding screens that are literally mirrors, their Pro computers won't ship with optical drives, they'll decide that USB is an outdated technology, and all computers with Flash installed will be bricked. Obviously I'm exaggerating, but I don't want them to even go anywhere near that slippery slope. I'm sure many people agree with me here. I want them to listen to the customer, but if the customers all buy Apple's useless devices, they'll be led think people like not being able to put their devices in their pockets, and people like not having Flash, and people like not being able to multitask, and people like having Apple control the App Store and by extension what can be installed on their devices. And soon enough these limitations will be imposed on all their products. Does anyone really want that?

 

[Night Spring]

Let's look at the facts:
1. The iPad will not fit in a pocket. True enough

2. eBooks can be read on an iPhone/iPT. But not as comfortably as on an iPad, with its larger screen.

3. The iPad runs a very limited operating system that was designed for use with a 3.5" screen, not a 10" screen with a (slightly) faster processor. Some changes have been made to take advantage of the larger screen, such as split views within apps, and popover menus.

4. The iPad will not multitask (which may have actually made the larger screen useful, but don't regard that statement as fact). While it's true that there is no multitasking on the iPad, I and other people have repeatedly said that multitasking isn't the only thing a big screen is useful for.

5. Steve Jobs said the iPad is supposed to be the best web surfing device ever, yet it doesn't even have Flash. Personally I don't care for Flash, but I do understand it is an issue for some people.

6. It has the exact same level of functionality as an iPhone/iPod Touch with the preinstalled apps. Calendar, Contact, and Music Player apps for the iPad are all much improved.

7. Playing HD video will result in HUGE black bars (due to the 4:3 screen) I'd rather have black bars when watching movies than have documents and webpages showing in weird proportions, but this is a matter of personal preference.

8. Unlimited 3G service costs $30, which is the same as most phones, making it not such a "breakthrough price" after all. $30 is the cost of monthly phone service for most cell phones. Internet data service for a laptop typically costs around $60-70.

9. There is no camera.
10. There is no USB.
True enough.

11. Apple makes more profit per iPad sold than per iPod touch sold (take this with a grain of salt, as we only have analyst price estimates to rely on for now, but it's almost certain Apple makes more than the ~$100 they do on the low-end Touch).
No comment until we know for sure how much Apple makes on the iPad.

12. Other tablets already exist with far more capabilities than the iPad with similar prices. Similar capabilties *and* similar prices in the same device? Please do post links.

13. The iPad lacks pressure sensitivity.
14. The iPad has a glossy display.
15. The iPad doesn't ship with earphones, despite its already high price.
None of the above bothers me.

16. Apple will be offering a mechanical keyboard dock with the same type of keyboard found on all their computers.
And? But? Therefore?

17. The iPad can do nothing that either an iPod Touch/iPhone or computer cannot (with the only exception being when large-screen, multitouch- or accelerometer-based games come to it).
I'm feeling like a broken record here, but let me say it one more time: bigger screen = more things iPad can do. Please, just compare the iPad calendar to the iPhone calendar like I asked you to do earlier, and tell me the iPad calendar doesn't do more. And in comparison with a computer, the iPad is more portable. Jobs didn't say the iPad has to do something that no other device can do, he said it has to do a few things (email, ebooks, web serfing, videos) better than any other device does.

All sales of the iPad will do is serve to inflate Apple's ego. If they can pull off selling a pointless device, they can do anything. Soon, they'll start adding screens that are literally mirrors, their Pro computers won't ship with optical drives, they'll decide that USB is an outdated technology, and all computers with Flash installed will be bricked. Obviously I'm exaggerating, but I don't want them to even go anywhere near that slippery slope.

So basically, you want other people to not buy the iPad, because the iPad as a prodcut indicates that Apple is going in a direction YOU don't agree with. Well, not everyone will agree with you -- some might even think that the iPad shows that Apple is moving in the exact right direction. So, please do go ahead and keep trying to convince people otherwise, but I don't think you are going to change anybody's mind.

 

[Eidorian]

...some might think that the iPad shows that Apple is moving in the exact right direction.

Would you please elaborate.

 

[blackcrayon]

Let's look at the facts:
1. The iPad will not fit in a pocket.
But it will fit places even most netbooks could not- e.g. a bag with "stuff" in it.
2. eBooks can be read on an iPhone/iPT.
Poorly. Video can be edited on a MacBook. I guess there's no need for a MacBook Pro then?
3. The iPad runs a very limited operating system that was designed for use with a 3.5" screen, not a 10" screen with a (slightly) faster processor.
Excellent. That's what we want, not a desktop OS designed for a larger screen crammed onto a tiny screen.
4. The iPad will not multitask (which may have actually made the larger screen useful, but don't regard that statement as fact).
It has limited multitasking. While you're stating "facts" you could at least be factual. You should describe these mountains of tasks I'll be missing.
5. Steve Jobs said the iPad is supposed to be the best web surfing device ever, yet it doesn't even have Flash.
Ok, that one could've used some qualifiers by ol' Steve.
6. It has the exact same level of functionality as an iPhone/iPod Touch with the preinstalled apps.
It plays near-HD youtube! Hey, it's functionality. Obviously all of the apps were re-designed to take advantage of the larger screen. But you don't consider that functionality...
7. Playing HD video will result in HUGE black bars (due to the 4:3 screen)
Reading books, web pages, or running the DESKOP apps you so preciously desire will result in HUGE missing areas of content at the bottom of the screen (assuming a similar 1024 x 600 netbook or tablet).
8. Unlimited 3G service costs $30, which is the same as most phones, making it not such a "breakthrough price" after all.
And you omit that there's no contract, it's unlocked, and a "data only" 3G add-on for most laptops is $50-$60 a month.
9. There is no camera.
Hey there's one that's a reasonable fact.
10. There is no USB.
Except through the dock connector.
12. Other tablets already exist with far more capabilities than the iPad with similar prices.
We've gone through this and you came up with systems that were unfinished or inferior in hardware, and vastly inferior in software execution vs. the iPad.
13. The iPad lacks pressure sensitivity.
I'd like to have that, but don't they all?
14. The iPad has a glossy display.
Not a universal disadvantage. Hell, their pro displays do too... and?
15. The iPad doesn't ship with earphones, despite its already high price.
And your other pet laptops and tablets do?
16. Apple will be offering a mechanical keyboard dock with the same type of keyboard found on all their computers.
I guess I'm missing something here, where's the disadvantage?
17. The iPad can do nothing that either an iPod Touch/iPhone or computer cannot (with the only exception being when large-screen, multitouch- or accelerometer-based games come to it).
A Mac Pro with a 30" display can do nothing a white MacBook can't do (with the exception showing a lot of windows and palettes at a time, showing controls for apps that need them, run faster, etc.)

Let the facts speak for themselves.
They've spoken and I'm saying... Hm... It's not perfect in and of itself, but it's better than any other choice in the very near future for what i'd like to do.

I want them to listen to the customer, but if the customers all buy Apple's useless devices, they'll be led think people like not being able to put their devices in their pockets, and people like not having Flash, and people like not being able to multitask, and people like having Apple control the App Store and by extension what can be installed on their devices. And soon enough these limitations will be imposed on all their products. Does anyone really want that?

That was a joke too right?

 

[Night Spring]

Would you please elaborate.

I don't have much to elaborate, because *I* don't particularly have an opinion one way or other on the overall direction Apple is taking with their products. I was just saying that hypothetically, it's possible people could feel that way.

 

[Eidorian]

I don't have much to elaborate, because *I* don't particularly have an opinion one way or other on the overall direction Apple is taking with their products. I was just saying that hypothetically, it's possible people could feel that way.

That's fine. I didn't want to have to bring out the ARM powered 1984 Orwellian digital Dark Age out.

 

[lifeinhd]

2. eBooks can be read on an iPhone/iPT. [But not as comfortably as on an iPad, with its larger screen.]

Remember, I was sticking to facts. That's your opinion. If you want my opinion, the iPhone screen is more comfortable to read eBooks from because I don't have to move my head up and down to read an entire page when it's a foot away from me.

3. The iPad runs a very limited operating system that was designed for use with a 3.5" screen, not a 10" screen with a (slightly) faster processor. [Some changes have been made to take advantage of the larger screen, such as split views within apps, and popover menus.]

Those are fairly minor changes. Looking at things such as the home screen or icon placement, it seems pretty obvious that they didn't think about the best way to redesign the overall UI for the larger screen.

4. The iPad will not multitask (which may have actually made the larger screen useful, but don't regard that statement as fact). [While it's true that there is no multitasking on the iPad, I and other people have repeatedly said that multitasking isn't the only thing a big screen is useful for.]

Well, besides professional programs (such as FCP), what else is it good for? Would you full-screen your chat windows on a 27" iMac?

5. Steve Jobs said the iPad is supposed to be the best web surfing device ever, yet it doesn't even have Flash. [Personally I don't care for Flash, but I do understand it is an issue for some people.]

Again, that's opinion. As another fact, I was going to mention how Flash is used a great deal on many common Web sites, but I wanted to stick to iPad-specific facts.

6. It has the exact same level of functionality as an iPhone/iPod Touch with the preinstalled apps. [Calendar, Contact, and Music Player apps for the iPad are all much improved.]

Note I specifically used the word "functionality," not "interface." The Calendar, contacts, and music iPad apps do not add any functionality to their iPhone counterparts, just a different look and feel. In fact, they took away some functionality-- for example, there's no cover flow.

7. Playing HD video will result in HUGE black bars (due to the 4:3 screen) [I'd rather have black bars when watching movies than have documents and webpages showing in weird proportions, but this is a matter of personal preference.]

A 16:9 or even 16:10 screen wouldn't show documents in weird proportions. Do your documents look funny on a 16:9 iMac? No, it would just show a different amount of your document (say, 30 lines in landscape or 60 lines in portrait).

8. Unlimited 3G service costs $30, which is the same as most phones, making it not such a "breakthrough price" after all. [$30 is the cost of monthly phone service for most cell phones. Internet data service for a laptop typically costs around $60-70.]

Yeah, except the iPad has nowhere near the capabilities of a laptop, and thus nowhere near as much data usage will occur. You aren't going to be torrenting movies on this thing. So basically, since it has the usability of a phone, it should cost the same $30 a phone would cost.

Plus, even the name of its operating system is the "iPhone OS"...

12. Other tablets already exist with far more capabilities than the iPad with similar prices. [Similar capabilties *and* similar prices in the same device? Please do post links.]

I said specifically "capabilities." That simply means it does more than an iPad can. Vague, perhaps, but a true statement nonetheless. Take, for example, the Archos 9 PC Tablet that I believe I used in another example.

13. The iPad lacks pressure sensitivity.
14. The iPad has a glossy display.
15. The iPad doesn't ship with earphones, despite its already high price.
[None of the above bothers me.]

Again, the goal of my list was not to list things that should bother you, it was to point out truths about the iPad, since other posters accused me of propagating my opinion as opposed to explaining what was wrong with the iPad.

16. Apple will be offering a mechanical keyboard dock with the same type of keyboard found on all their computers.
And? But? Therefore?

I didn't want to insert conjecture in my list of facts, but since you asked...

It doesn't seem Apple has loads of faith in their OSK if they feel the need to offer a mechanical keyboard as well. You don't see anything like this for the iPhone, perhaps because the keyboard is actually usable?

17. The iPad can do nothing that either an iPod Touch/iPhone or computer cannot (with the only exception being when large-screen, multitouch- or accelerometer-based games come to it).
[I'm feeling like a broken record here, but let me say it one more time: bigger screen = more things iPad can do. Please, just compare the iPad calendar to the iPhone calendar like I asked you to do earlier, and tell me the iPad calendar doesn't do more. And in comparison with a computer, the iPad is more portable. Jobs didn't say the iPad has to do something that no other device can do, he said it has to do a few things (email, ebooks, web serfing, videos) better than any other device does.]

A bigger screen may allow for more things the iPad can do as opposed to the iPhone (through third-party apps), but it still doesn't allow for anything a laptop can't do (with the exception of the two types of games mentioned). Considering, as Jobs said, "most people have a laptop and a smartphone," there is no reason to buy another device that duplicates functionality of devices you already have. Yes, I realize you said the iPad is more portable than a laptop, but only just. If you don't mind my asking, Do you carry your laptop with you every day, and if you do, how do you carry it?

Let's look at the facts:
1. The iPad will not fit in a pocket.
[But it will fit places even most netbooks could not- e.g. a bag with "stuff" in it.]

Do you really want to shove it in a bag with "stuff" in it, where the glass screen can easily get broken or scratched? Those screens aren't scratchproof you know... I keep my Touch in the opposite pants pocket of my phone, car keys, etc and I've never once dropped it, yet I've got a nice scratch on the screen somehow.

2. eBooks can be read on an iPhone/iPT.
[Poorly. Video can be edited on a MacBook. I guess there's no need for a MacBook Pro then?]

The "poorly" bit is your opinion. I was sticking to facts.

Also, considering no one serious about editing video would edit on an iPad, I suggest you choose a different example. Or, if you're considering someone who's enough of an amateur that they might actually edit video on an iPad, then a MacBook would be enough for them. For people who actually about what they're doing, there are desktop-sized matte displays with color calibration tools and 8-core Mac Pros with 12GB of RAM and 4TB of hard drive space. And for people in the middle, who want quality content but don't expect to make a feature film, there are MacBook Pros and iMacs.

3. The iPad runs a very limited operating system that was designed for use with a 3.5" screen, not a 10" screen with a (slightly) faster processor.
[Excellent. That's what we want, not a desktop OS designed for a larger screen crammed onto a tiny screen.]

That's what _you_ want.

I like to look at the motorcycle analogy. I posted this earlier in this thread, but I suppose you may have missed it.

"What motorcycles did was combine the small size and simplicity of a bicycle with the power and features of a car. It's the best of both worlds. The iPad, on the other hand, takes the worst of both worlds, by combining the large size of a computer and the limited operating system of a smartphone. What Apple has created then, in effect, is the "flintstonemobile" of electronics. What they should have concentrated on making was a small device with the power and robustness of a computer. How they would accomplish this, I do not know, but that's where Apple's famous innovation comes in."

4. The iPad will not multitask (which may have actually made the larger screen useful, but don't regard that statement as fact).
[It has limited multitasking. While you're stating "facts" you could at least be factual. You should describe these mountains of tasks I'll be missing.]

What, like playing audio while browsing the Web?

I'm not sure how I'm not being factual. Perhaps you read my statement in parenthesis that was the only tiny bit of opinion in my entire list, where I specifically said "NOTE: THIS IS OPINION" and somehow managed to miss that note?

But as for what you're missing, I'll bite. You won't be listening to Pandora while you browse the Web. You won't be looking at chats while you're playing a game. You won't be watching a YouTube music video while you follow the lyrics in a browser. You won't be dragging images directly from a photo editor into a Keynote presentation. I dunno, that seemed like a pretty silly question.

6. It has the exact same level of functionality as an iPhone/iPod Touch with the preinstalled apps.
[It plays near-HD youtube! Hey, it's functionality. Obviously all of the apps were re-designed to take advantage of the larger screen. But you don't consider that functionality...]

In terms of saying that that's functionality, that's borderline. That's like saying "12-cylinder engine vs. 10-cylinder engine: it's added functionality!"

7. Playing HD video will result in HUGE black bars (due to the 4:3 screen)
[Reading books, web pages, or running the DESKOP apps you so preciously desire will result in HUGE missing areas of content at the bottom of the screen (assuming a similar 1024 x 600 netbook or tablet).]

Um, not really. Even on a desktop, you expect to do some scrolling. If you expect to not have to do any scrolling on the iPad, you're in for a surprise.

8. Unlimited 3G service costs $30, which is the same as most phones, making it not such a "breakthrough price" after all.
[And you omit that there's no contract, it's unlocked, and a "data only" 3G add-on for most laptops is $50-$60 a month.]

I admit, it being unlocked and having no contract are nice. As to the price of laptop 3G dongles, note my response to the poster above explaining how the iPad more of a phone than a laptop, and therefore shouldn't cost as much as a laptop for service.

10. There is no USB.
[Except through the dock connector.]

More stuff to buy, aren't you lucky?

And correct me if I'm wrong, but that USB port is a "camera connection kit," meaning it won't work with anything besides a camera. If you want to connect your printer or your USB drive (at least to transfer things that aren't pictures), you're short of luck.

12. Other tablets already exist with far more capabilities than the iPad with similar prices.
[We've gone through this and you came up with systems that were unfinished or inferior in hardware, and vastly inferior in software execution vs. the iPad.]

I specifically said "capabilities." Note my response to the poster above.

13. The iPad lacks pressure sensitivity.
[I'd like to have that, but don't they all?]

Again, I'm just pointing out facts. Of course, the lack of pressure sensitivity and presence of the glossy display make the iPad useless for artists.

14. The iPad has a glossy display.
[Not a universal disadvantage. Hell, their pro displays do too... and?]

And, while it's bad on their Pro displays, it's even worse on an iPad display because it's constantly changing environments. One minute you could be in a pitch-black room where it works fine, the next you could be standing in a park at noon. At least with a desktop display, you only have to position it optimally once instead of constantly having to shift it to adjust for glare.

15. The iPad doesn't ship with earphones, despite its already high price.
[And your other pet laptops and tablets do?]

Do remember, the iPad is more of an iPod than a laptop. Hell, even the name is only a character away from "iPod." And yes, some tablets do include headphones, such as the Archos 7 (and of course, things such as the ADAM are unknown so far).

16. Apple will be offering a mechanical keyboard dock with the same type of keyboard found on all their computers.
[I guess I'm missing something here, where's the disadvantage?]

See the above post.

17. The iPad can do nothing that either an iPod Touch/iPhone or computer cannot (with the only exception being when large-screen, multitouch- or accelerometer-based games come to it).
[A Mac Pro with a 30" display can do nothing a white MacBook can't do (with the exception showing a lot of windows and palettes at a time, showing controls for apps that need them, run faster, etc.)]

That's a pretty big exception. In fact, that's the whole point of getting a larger display, to do more at the same time (or pro apps). And you bet a Mac Pro would run faster than a MacBook... and if the news we're hearing about the A4 being a slightly higher clocked A8 is true, then there's hardly a disparity there.

By the way, I noticed you didn't respond to my last little bit there? Normally I wouldn't care, but that was kind of a key point... same as how you completely missed my motorcycle analogy from earlier. I hope this isn't a trend?

I don't have much to elaborate, because *I* don't particularly have an opinion one way or other on the overall direction Apple is taking with their products.

Not having an opinion is a problem. That's how people end up blindly following companies like Apple.

 

[blackcrayon]

By the way, I noticed you didn't respond to my last little bit there? Normally I wouldn't care, but that was kind of a key point... same as how you completely missed my motorcycle analogy from earlier. I hope this isn't a trend?

You mean the one that I thought was a joke? It sounded too silly to respond... "What if people start buying things and then Apple makes more of them because people like to buy them?!"

I'll spare re-responding to every point because I think we've both beaten them to death and they're really just restating previous opinions on each- that is, opinions on the facts about the iPad. (For example, your assertion that black bars are so bad- I couldn't care less- and my assertion that 768 vertical pixels is generally better for the web (based on my experience with 1024 x 600 screens)- which you don't acknowledge as being very important).

I noticed you said things like "that's what _you_ want" a few times. Yes, isn't that how this whole thing started? You're the one who posted earlier in the thread to the effect that you had to come and save people from their own ignorance (basically). No one told you what you should want. I've said several times what would work for me. I'm talking about why *I* will find the device useful, and it appears that I own or have experience with at least as many devices "in the discussion" as you (Mac desktops, laptops, and handhelds). I've owned a few netbooks running both Windows and Mac OS X. I've obviously looked into (with the exception of the Dell Inspiron 11z) several alternatives, long before this discussion. But still, you don't respect any opinion different than your own?

 

[admanimal]

Remember, I was sticking to facts.

<snip>

...I wanted to stick to iPad-specific facts.

<snip>

I didn't want to insert conjecture in my list of facts, but since you asked...

<snip>

I was sticking to facts.

<snip>
Again, I'm just pointing out facts.

<snip...actually the following text was from somewhere in the middle of the post>

The Calendar, contacts, and music iPad apps do not add any functionality to their iPhone counterparts, just a different look and feel. In fact, they took away some functionality-- for example, there's no cover flow.

For someone so concerned about facts, you got this one all wrong. The music app (i.e. the iPod app) does add functionality over its iPhone counterpart. For example, it allows you to create and edit playlists right on the device (there is an iLounge hands-on report demonstrating this). There is also no way you can state that it does not have cover flow as a fact, given that no one has seen the final app -or even that much of the beta app- demonstrated. Likewise, the iPad Calendar app GUI is clearly so far enhanced beyond the iPhone version that it is laughable to say it adds no functionality (in fact I would be willing to bet that it does add functionality even beyond the dramatic GUI enhancement).

 

[w00t951]

If I were you, I would completely replace laptops with iPads and the clip on physical keyboard. I wrote a letter to Apple 3 years ago asking for a clip on physical keyboard for the iPod and iPhone. It would practically make it into a mini desktop. I'm betting that the iPad's keyboard is compatible with the iPods and iPhones, although it would look slightly silly.

 

[bettieclaire]

hi

iphone is going to be huge Apple. i have still use iphone. that would be pretty cool

view tv

 

[Night Spring]

I won't answer everything point by point, because as blackcrayon pointed out, I'll just end up rehashing points I've already stated many times. But just to respond to something I think is central to your argument:

13. The iPad lacks pressure sensitivity.
14. The iPad has a glossy display.
15. The iPad doesn't ship with earphones, despite its already high price.
[None of the above bothers me.]

Again, the goal of my list was not to list things that should bother you, it was to point out truths about the iPad, since other posters accused me of propagating my opinion as opposed to explaining what was wrong with the iPad.

Ok, but these "truths" about the iPad don't bother me. *You* think these facts explain what is wrong with the iPad, but I don't think they are wrong.

Some of the things you listed as "facts," I admit is a problem, such as lack of multitasking. But to me, those are minor problems. What the iPad can't do are overridden, for me, by all the things it *can* do. You find the iPad lacking in many ways, and I do understand that. But what you don't seem to understand, or are refusing to acknowledge, is that just because the iPad isn't right for you, doesn't mean it won't be right for me.

Not having an opinion is a problem. That's how people end up blindly following companies like Apple.

I don't follow companies, therefore I don't have an opinion on what direction any company is taking. If I like a particular product that a company puts out, I buy it. If I don't like it, I don't buy it. I expect market forces to take care of the rest. I have an iPod touch and I love it, but I don't like OSX, so I'm still using Windows for my desktop OS. I want the iPad because I have had a good experience with the touch, and the iPad seems like it would improve on the touch experience because of its bigger screen. But if next year some other company comes out with something that I think is better than the iPad, I'll buy that. But at this moment, in my view, nobody makes anything that fits my needs/wants better than the iPad. And as I said before, my opinion is the only thing that matters -- to me.

 

[charlituna]

You can't stand to face the reality that's staring you in the face.

No you can't stand to face the reality that what you speak is NOT fact and some of us have the brains to consider the actual facts and form our own opinion, which doesn't agree with yours.

Yes let's look at your facts and MY OPINION of the validity of said facts in the issue of MY buying an ipad.

1. The iPad will not fit in a pocket.

I don't need it to

2. eBooks can be read on an iPhone/iPT.

They will be easier to read on a larger screen without all the zooming, sliding etc.

3. The iPad runs a very limited operating system that was designed for use with a 3.5" screen, not a 10" screen with a (slightly) faster processor.

I'm not looking for a full sized computer to render animations and FX on. I have my imac and a MPro render farm for that. I need something that is easy to use one handed for emails, script reading etc. All processor non intensive tasks so if the OS runs, fine.

Also have you reverse engineered the OS as it stands on an ipad. Do you know for a fact that they didn't adjust appropriately for the larger device, but really slapped the iphone OS as is into it.

4. The iPad will not multitask

I don't need it to multitask

5. Steve Jobs said the iPad is supposed to be the best web surfing device ever, yet it doesn't even have Flash.

Flash is, in my opinion, crapware used mainly for annoying pop up ads and stupid facebook etc games that I don't and won't be playing.

So I don't really need Flash on my ipad.

Also, Adobe has pretty much admitted that they just slapped a couple of new lines on the Windows version of Flash. And then stood shocked when it didn't work right under the Mac OS. And that they have no intentions of doing the ground up rewrite it would take to have a truly working version of Flash for Mac OS. Instead they expect Apple to change the OS to fit Flash (basically make it Windows).

With that 'tude, I can't fault Apple for not wanting to play with Adobe. My company has actually found ways around using Adobe products just fine (my boss really really hates Adobe's attitude and their more insane than Apple pricing)

6. It has the exact same level of functionality as an iPhone/iPod Touch with the preinstalled apps.

Again, not an issue for what I will be using it for. Since the presence of those functions is part of why I want the iPad.

7. Playing HD video will result in HUGE black bars (due to the 4:3 screen)

Well as one blogger put it, this is not a video player that happens to also check email.

Also, those 'huge' black lines aren't really that huge. Especially for me, who is not going to be watching videos on it all the time. Perhaps once or twice I might catch up on last night's Lost during lunch if I was on set last night, but that's it.

8. Unlimited 3G service costs $30, which is the same as most phones, making it not such a "breakthrough price" after all.

It's a pretty standard price for a data line. But unlike most of those lines, this one is optional, no contract and no sim lock in the software. So while only ATT uses a micro sim, if you have the guts to trim one yourself you could go else where with none of that 'you unlocked your iphone so no tech support for you' nonsense

9. There is no camera.

I don't need one to be on the ipad for why I'm using it. And on the rare occasion I need to send a photo to someone, there's the adapter. That will work fine for me.

10. There is no USB.

Again, I don't need it.

Although that is not exactly true. There's such a thing as a dock connector to usb cable (which is how you'd connect it to a computer for backups etc) and the adapter in the camera kit.

11. Apple makes more profit per iPad sold than per iPod touch sold (take this with a grain of salt, as we only have analyst price estimates to rely on for now, but it's almost certain Apple makes more than the ~$100 they do on the low-end Touch).

Not a fact. About how much they will make on the iPad or they make on anything else.

And personally I don't care. They are a business and making money is what they do.

12. Other tablets already exist with far more capabilities than the iPad with similar prices.

But I don't need those capabilities. And I am not bothered by the price of the Ipad.

13. The iPad lacks pressure sensitivity.

I don't need it.

14. The iPad has a glossy display.

Doesn't bother me. I know how to tilt a screen, not stand under the lights etc. And guess what. Adjusting something I can hold in one hand will be a lot easier than adjusting a laptop or a netbook. Which I do a lot since I work on set up to 16 hours a day.

15. The iPad doesn't ship with earphones, despite its already high price.

on the rare occasion that I would need a pair, I have plenty. Much better ones than what they ship even.

16. Apple will be offering a mechanical keyboard dock with the same type of keyboard found on all their computers.

And? I have little need for it myself but I would think that for those that do would find it a plus that they have two ways to use a physical keyboard with their ipad.

17. The iPad can do nothing that either an iPod Touch/iPhone or computer cannot

They never said otherwise. But choice is good. I know a handful of folks that don't like the Kindle (two got one and sent it back) but would like to have an ebook reader. I know a handful of folks that hate doing much of anything on their iphones because the screen is so small. And all of them would rather not have 10 gadgets if one can do everything they want. So all of them at least want to check out the ipad when it hits the stores.

But I guess for you, the ipad is junk until it can cure cancer, solve the riddle of world peace and wipe your butt for ya. So be it.

Let the facts speak for themselves.

I did let the facts speak. And they told me that the ipad is a valid device for MY needs. So I'm going to buy one.

If they can pull off selling a pointless device, they can do anything.

There was a time when folks said the same about color tvs, personal computers, CDs etc.

And I'm not even going to respond to that last bit as it was nothing but hyperbolic, baseless ranting. And even you know it.

Except to say that Apple does listen to the customers. The problem is that you erroneously believe that you are the only type of customer they have. So if it doesn't suit what you want, it's junk and a waste.

Guess what EgoMuch. You are not. You are an example of perhaps 5% of the Apple Customer Base. So get over yourself.

 

[lifeinhd]

You mean the one that I thought was a joke? It sounded too silly to respond... "What if people start buying things and then Apple makes more of them because people like to buy them?!"

The problem is buying Apple products only because they have an Apple logo on the back. Overlooking all the major flaws for that logo. If Dell made a tablet with this many flaws, it wouldn't sell. If BMW made a luxury sedan without a stereo, a passenger seat, and an air conditioner, nobody would buy it. Why, then, do people insist on buying the iPad? Would you defend such a BMW just as vigorously, arguing such things as "nobody listens to music as they drive anymore" or "you've still got a back seat for passengers" or "you can open the windows to get air conditioning?" I think we both know the answer.

I'll spare re-responding to every point because I think we've both beaten them to death and they're really just restating previous opinions on each- that is, opinions on the facts about the iPad. (For example, your assertion that black bars are so bad- I couldn't care less-

I'll be honest, I don't like 16:9. In fact, when I purchased myself a new desktop monitor a couple months ago, I went out of my way to find a 16:10 display. It seems many people don't like black bars, however, which is why I brought that up.

and my assertion that 768 vertical pixels is generally better for the web (based on my experience with 1024 x 600 screens)- which you don't acknowledge as being very important).

You're right, perhaps you ought to never use your iPhone for web browsing again! If 600 is bad, 240 is terrible!

I noticed you said things like "that's what _you_ want" a few times. Yes, isn't that how this whole thing started? You're the one who posted earlier in the thread to the effect that you had to come and save people from their own ignorance (basically).

What I mean is I'm trying my hardest to show how my points are true for everybody. That's why I'm stating truths such as "the iPad cannot do anything either a laptop or an iPhone cannot." I could give you loads of personal opinions if you wanted to hear them, but that of course wouldn't support or further my argument.

No one told you what you should want. I've said several times what would work for me. I'm talking about why *I* will find the device useful, and it appears that I own or have experience with at least as many devices "in the discussion" as you (Mac desktops, laptops, and handhelds). I've owned a few netbooks running both Windows and Mac OS X. I've obviously looked into (with the exception of the Dell Inspiron 11z) several alternatives, long before this discussion. But still, you don't respect any opinion different than your own?

I'm not telling you what you should want. I'm giving you reasons the iPad is a bad idea. I recognize that no matter how numerous, accurate, or hard-hitting my points are, you're still going to buy an iPad. I can't stop you. I do, however, hope I can at least give you pause, and have you ask yourself if this is really the best choice you can make for the money.

 

[blackcrayon]

The problem is buying Apple products only because they have an Apple logo on the back. Overlooking all the major flaws for that logo. If Dell made a tablet with this many flaws, it wouldn't sell. If BMW made a luxury sedan without a stereo, a passenger seat, and an air conditioner, nobody would buy it. Why, then, do people insist on buying the iPad? Would you defend such a BMW just as vigorously, arguing such things as "nobody listens to music as they drive anymore" or "you've still got a back seat for passengers" or "you can open the windows to get air conditioning?" I think we both know the answer.

Similar arguments are made against all Apple products all the time. I think you know that. They're wrong in both cases. So after everything I've said, you think I'm buying the iPad because it has an Apple logo on it? Why didn't I buy any number of their other products that feature Apple logos? Your straw-man BMW argument is flawed- because the so-called "missing items' on the iPad are things that matter to you but not to me. Would I buy an iPad without a touch screen? no. Would i buy it without a bunch of USB ports on the side? yes.

You're right, perhaps you ought to never use your iPhone for web browsing again! If 600 is bad, 240 is terrible!

Really? Come on... When someone says they would rather have a 1024 x 768 screen than a 1024x600 screen, you try to convince them otherwise by showing a 3.5" smartphone?

What I mean is I'm trying my hardest to show how my points are true for everybody. That's why I'm stating truths such as "the iPad cannot do anything either a laptop or an iPhone cannot." I could give you loads of personal opinions if you wanted to hear them, but that of course wouldn't support or further my argument.

And we've continually refuted you, and you either ignore it or respond with a snarky technicality. "the iPad cannot do anything either a laptop or an iPhone cannot"- Can the iPhone or most laptops (any of Apple's), unassisted, give you 10 hours of battery life watching video or browsing the web? How about this one. Neither the iPhone nor a laptop can work as a device about midway between an iPhone and a laptop

I'm not telling you what you should want. I'm giving you reasons the iPad is a bad idea. I recognize that no matter how numerous, accurate, or hard-hitting my points are, you're still going to buy an iPad. I can't stop you. I do, however, hope I can at least give you pause, and have you ask yourself if this is really the best choice you can make for the money.

Nice to self-label your points as "hard-hitting." Hard hitting like "the screen will get scratched if you put it in a bag!" Oh no, no one ever thought of that! What shall we do?

I hope that you will pause and think, "Is this device really as bad as I came on this thread to proclaim?"

 

[Night Spring]

I'm not telling you what you should want. I'm giving you reasons the iPad is a bad idea.

Okay, so you are telling us what we *shouldn't want*. Same difference. Do you actually think that "the iPad is a bad idea" is a fact? Or can you admit that that is your opinon?

 

[lifeinhd]

For someone so concerned about facts, you got this one all wrong. The music app (i.e. the iPod app) does add functionality over its iPhone counterpart. For example, it allows you to create and edit playlists right on the device (there is an iLounge hands-on report demonstrating this).

That could be an OS 3.2 feature for all we know. I.E, there's no reason that feature can't come to the iPhone.

There is also no way you can state that it does not have cover flow as a fact, given that no one has seen the final app -or even that much of the beta app- demonstrated.

Reports such as this lead me to believe otherwise.

Speaking of which, that article reminded me, there's no iTunes LP available either.

Likewise, the iPad Calendar app GUI is clearly so far enhanced beyond the iPhone version that it is laughable to say it adds no functionality (in fact I would be willing to bet that it does add functionality even beyond the dramatic GUI enhancement).

If it did, why didn't they bother to point out the advantages of it during the keynote?

Ok, but these "truths" about the iPad don't bother me. *You* think these facts explain what is wrong with the iPad, but I don't think they are wrong.

I'm glad they don't bother you. In fact, out of those, only the lack of headphones really bothers me. The others bother other people.

Some of the things you listed as "facts," I admit is a problem, such as lack of multitasking. But to me, those are minor problems. What the iPad can't do are overridden, for me, by all the things it *can* do. You find the iPad lacking in many ways, and I do understand that. But what you don't seem to understand, or are refusing to acknowledge, is that just because the iPad isn't right for you, doesn't mean it won't be right for me.

The larger size makes people-- not just me-- expect more from it. If you chose a $50k 8-cylinder sports car over a $15k 4-cylinder Toyota, wouldn't you expect more from it? How is the iPad different?

I don't follow companies, therefore I don't have an opinion on what direction any company is taking. If I like a particular product that a company puts out, I buy it. If I don't like it, I don't buy it. I expect market forces to take care of the rest.

"Market forces." You mean what you're contributing to by buying/not buying a product. Are you one of those people who doesn't vote because "one person will not make a difference?"

Ever thought about how industrial giants such as Carnegie or Rockefeller rose to power? It wasn't that they offered a superior product. People allowed them to gain monopolies by only purchasing their products. Granted, part of the reason for this was because their prices were lower than anyone else, but what consumers didn't realize was that by buying only Carnegie steel or only Rockefeller oil, this drove the competitors out of business, and then the companies could do whatever they wanted as far as prices were concerned. In this case, it's not so much about prices as it is quality products, but the main argument still stands. It's not that Apple makes a better product, it's that more people know the name and logo and don't do research and think that by buying Apple products they'll be "cool." And if the trend continues, Apple will have a monopoly.

I have an iPod touch and I love it, but I don't like OSX, so I'm still using Windows for my desktop OS.

I just would like to point out, you *do* know that iPhone OS is just a stripped down version of OS X, right?

I want the iPad because I have had a good experience with the touch, and the iPad seems like it would improve on the touch experience because of its bigger screen. But if next year some other company comes out with something that I think is better than the iPad, I'll buy that. But at this moment, in my view, nobody makes anything that fits my needs/wants better than the iPad. And as I said before, my opinion is the only thing that matters -- to me.

Are you at least going to use one for a good chunk of time before you buy it? And actually use some competing products for the same chunk of time?

No you can't stand to face the reality that what you speak is NOT fact and some of us have the brains to consider the actual facts and form our own opinion, which doesn't agree with yours.

What did I say that wasn't fact?

Yes let's look at your facts and MY OPINION of the validity of said facts in the issue of MY buying an ipad.

I was trying to avoid interjecting opinion. In fact, some of my facts don't even agree with my opinion. Like pressure sensitivity, for instance: I couldn't care less. My point is some of these will be issues for some people, others will be issues for other people, and the rest of the people will ignore the facts and deal with the issues after they've sold out to Apple.

Also have you reverse engineered the OS as it stands on an ipad. Do you know for a fact that they didn't adjust appropriately for the larger device, but really slapped the iphone OS as is into it.

Have you even seen the keynote? Or any pictures of the device whatsoever? It's pretty obvious, so I thought.

Flash is, in my opinion, crapware used mainly for annoying pop up ads and stupid facebook etc games that I don't and won't be playing.

It's also what most sites use to play videos. I believe watching videos was one of the things the iPad was supposed to excel at. I guess not.

If you don't mind my asking, Do you have flash installed on any of your computers? And if so, why? According to you, it's just "crapware" anyways....

Also, those 'huge' black lines aren't really that huge. Especially for me, who is not going to be watching videos on it all the time. Perhaps once or twice I might catch up on last night's Lost during lunch if I was on set last night, but that's it.

If people were complaining enough about black bars on 16:10 screens that the entire industry (with the exception of Apple and Lenovo) had to switch to 16:9, 4:3 will be just terrible.

If you're not watching videos on it, what's the advantage of buying an iPad over an iPod touch? You mentioned text, but a) videos is where the iPad is supposed to truly shine and b) is not having to scroll as much really worth $500?

It's a pretty standard price for a data line. But unlike most of those lines, this one is optional, no contract and no sim lock in the software. So while only ATT uses a micro sim, if you have the guts to trim one yourself you could go else where with none of that 'you unlocked your iphone so no tech support for you' nonsense

Yeah, as even you admitted, you'd need to butcher a SIM card to make it work. Considering how close you need to cut to the metal contact, it's pretty easy to ruin the card entirely. So yeah, there's no software lock, but there's a hardware lock instead. Brilliant.

And if you're the sort of person who would be up to this sort of task, why not just buy an iPhone and unlock it?

I don't need one to be on the ipad for why I'm using it. And on the rare occasion I need to send a photo to someone, there's the adapter. That will work fine for me.

The adapter requires you to carry a separate camera. So now you've got even more things filling up your bag.

There's such a thing as a dock connector to usb cable (which is how you'd connect it to a computer for backups etc) and the adapter in the camera kit.

As I mentioned to another poster, that kit (so far as I know) is just for cameras, and won't allow you to attach thumb drives/printers/etc.

Not a fact. About how much they will make on the iPad or they make on anything else.

And personally I don't care. They are a business and making money is what they do.

Fine, not an established fact... yet. Wait until iSuppli does their estimate.

And you _should_ care. Note the Carnegie/Rockefeller example above.

[/QUOTE]But I don't need those capabilities. And I am not bothered by the price of the Ipad.[/QUOTE]

So even if you could get more for less, you wouldn't care? Sounds to me like you're buying an iPad because of the Apple logo.

And? I have little need for it myself but I would think that for those that do would find it a plus that they have two ways to use a physical keyboard with their ipad.

As I said in another post, it shows just how little faith Apple has in their OSK. You don't see something like this for the iPhone/iPT, do you?

And all of them would rather not have 10 gadgets if one can do everything they want.

The iPad is supposed to be an "in-between" device, meaning it's supposed to be a third device. All the iPad would be to your friends is one more thing to have to lug around.

But I guess for you, the ipad is junk until it can cure cancer, solve the riddle of world peace and wipe your butt for ya. So be it.

For me, it's junk until it brings either a) new functionality to the table or b) computer-class power into a small handheld device. Note my motorcycle analogy in another post.

I did let the facts speak. And they told me that the ipad is a valid device for MY needs. So I'm going to buy one.

Right, and because the iPad is valid for your needs, that automatically means that no other device is.

Except to say that Apple does listen to the customers. The problem is that you erroneously believe that you are the only type of customer they have. So if it doesn't suit what you want, it's junk and a waste.

Guess what EgoMuch. You are not. You are an example of perhaps 5% of the Apple Customer Base. So get over yourself.

Everybody except one person that I've spoken to about the iPad (at least in person) has agreed that it's useless, both Apple fanboys and Apple haters alike. And I've talked to quite a few people about it. And the person who liked it offered a weak argument-- he said it would "revolutionize the magazine industry," or something to that effect, but he refused to expand on his statement.

Also, I'd like to know where you get that 5% figure from.

Why didn't I buy any number of their other products that feature Apple logos?

I think only you can answer that, though I can guess. Lack of money? Lack of space? Lack of time to use it all?

Your straw-man BMW argument is flawed- because the so-called "missing items' on the iPad are things that matter to you but not to me.

For all I know, there's someone out there who doesn't like passenger seats.

Really? Come on... When someone says they would rather have a 1024 x 768 screen than a 1024x600 screen, you try to convince them otherwise by showing a 3.5" smartphone?

I believe the point was to show that the smartphone you're used to has quite a few less pixels, yet you're complaining about a relatively small difference-- and in vertical height nonetheless, where it rarely matters outside of a full-size display.

Can the iPhone or most laptops (any of Apple's), unassisted, give you 10 hours of battery life watching video or browsing the web? How about this one. Neither the iPhone nor a laptop can work as a device about midway between an iPhone and a laptop

First off, you're assuming the battery life spec is accurate. No one will know for sure until the devices start to ship. And while I admit that Apple's usually pretty accurate, it's worthy of note that that is only 2 hours more life than Apple's 17" notebook. Obviously one is no substitute for another, but the difference in extra screen size vs. extra battery life is quite huge.

As for your second statement, you're absolutely right. Contrary to what Mr. Jobs thinks, that space is for small devices with computer-like capabilities. Currently, that would be a netbook.

Nice to self-label your points as "hard-hitting." Hard hitting like "the screen will get scratched if you put it in a bag!" Oh no, no one ever thought of that! What shall we do?

It seems like a bit of an oversight on Apple's part, wouldn't you agree?

I hope that you will pause and think, "Is this device really as bad as I came on this thread to proclaim?"

I'll admit, I have, many times. And each time, all I need to do is remind myself of the facts. And then I remember that the aluminum back of the iPad would be put to better use as soda cans.

But of course, that's just my opinion. You might think it would be put to better use as aircraft.

 

[Night Spring]

I'm glad they don't bother you. In fact, out of those, only the lack of headphones really bothers me. The others bother other people.

Well, like I've said many times, what bothers other people has no relevance to *my* purchasing decisions. If a product fits my needs/wants, I buy it. Whether ot not it fits other people's wants/expectations isn't my concern.

The larger size makes people-- not just me-- expect more from it. If you chose a $50k 8-cylinder sports car over a $15k 4-cylinder Toyota, wouldn't you expect more from it? How is the iPad different?

I'm not very familiar with cars, but if I understand correctly, the more expensive car is like a MacBook Pro or a desktop computer, and the cheaper car is like the iPad, and I'm saying that the cheaper, less featured option fits my needs and lifestyle better.

"Market forces." You mean what you're contributing to by buying/not buying a product. Are you one of those people who doesn't vote because "one person will not make a difference?"

I'm one person, and I'm voting by purchasing / not purchasing products. I guess I'm just not an activist -- I don't care to go around exhorting others to "vote" for causes, whether it's to prevent monopolies or protect the quality of products. I figure I do my part by casting my one vote.

ETA: Forgot to answer the following points.

I just would like to point out, you *do* know that iPhone OS is just a stripped down version of OS X, right?

Yes, I'm aware. The parts of OSX I don't like are the keyboard-menu-mouse commands, where I keep expecting to be able to do something I'm used to doing in Windows, only to find there's no equivalent in OSX. Since those parts don't apply to iPhone OS, I'm perfectly happy with it.

Are you at least going to use one for a good chunk of time before you buy it? And actually use some competing products for the same chunk of time?

Hmmmmm. Do you know some vendor who would allow me to take the products home and use them for a week or so before I decide which one I want to buy? Unless you do, I have to make my purchasing decisions based on best available information, not actual use.

OTOH, if you are talking about playing with display models, yes, I frequent the laptop/portable display section of my local electronics store. The iPad I don't feel the need to see before I buy, since it's basically just a big touch, and I already know what to expect from having had the touch for, what, two and a half years.

 

[admanimal]

That could be an OS 3.2 feature for all we know. I.E, there's no reason that feature can't come to the iPhone.

Reports such as this lead me to believe otherwise.

If it did, why didn't they bother to point out the advantages of it during the keynote?

It could be a feature that comes to the iPhone in the future, but either way your supposed fact was not so. They did highlight the Calendar during the keynote and it should have been obvious to anyone watching how much better it is than the iPhone.

 

[charlituna]

I was trying to avoid interjecting opinion.

Well try a heck of a lot harder because you have interjected "The ipad is a bad idea" several times and it is very much an opinion.

If you're not watching videos on it, what's the advantage of buying an iPad over an iPod touch?

Well if you had read my comments you would know exactly why I'm willing to spend twice as much on an ipad.

The adapter requires you to carry a separate camera. So now you've got even more things filling up your bag.

Guess you missed the part in my comments that I work on a freaking tv show set. I'm carrying 4 still cameras, two radios and 3 phones on a regular basis. Not to mention, at the moment, a pain in the butt laptop just so I can pull up emails and the script pages.

Wait until iSuppli does their estimate.

which will still not be fact.

So even if you could get more for less, you wouldn't care? Sounds to me like you're buying an iPad because of the Apple logo.

To a degree yes. Because that Apple logo comes on a device that serves my needs, created by a computer with a history of creating devices that serve my needs, a computer that stands by their products in ways that few other companies and so on.

If another company did the same, I might buy things that have their logo on them. So far, I haven't found that company

All the iPad would be to your friends is one more thing to have to lug around.

And they don't agree with that opinion.

For me, it's junk

then don't buy it.

Right, and because the iPad is valid for your needs, that automatically means that no other device is.

you assume, and wrongly, that I am not aware of those other devices or the companies behind them. Surprise, I am. And none of them hit every point on my needs wish. the Ipad did.

 

[lifeinhd]

I'm not very familiar with cars, but if I understand correctly, the more expensive car is like a MacBook Pro or a desktop computer, and the cheaper car is like the iPad, and I'm saying that the cheaper, less featured option fits my needs and lifestyle better.

The cheaper car is more like the MacBook; the bicycle is more like the iPod touch. The iPad is more like the flintstonemobile. See my motorcycle analogy from several posts ago.

I'm one person, and I'm voting by purchasing / not purchasing products. I guess I'm just not an activist -- I don't care to go around exhorting others to "vote" for causes, whether it's to prevent monopolies or protect the quality of products. I figure I do my part by casting my one vote.

Being an activist is an important part of voting. If nobody knows what your preferred candidate stands for, everybody will vote the other way, thus detracting from your cause.

Well try a heck of a lot harder because you have interjected "The ipad is a bad idea" several times and it is very much an opinion.

Way to quote me out of context. I was referring to my list of facts.

Guess you missed the part in my comments that I work on a freaking tv show set. I'm carrying 4 still cameras, two radios and 3 phones on a regular basis. Not to mention, at the moment, a pain in the butt laptop just so I can pull up emails and the script pages.

Are none of these phones you carry capable of displaying emails and script pages?

which will still not be fact.

Considering it's iSuppli who did the estimate for the Touch, we can safely assume their procedures will be the same for the iPad, so we can at least get an appropriate ratio.

To a degree yes. Because that Apple logo comes on a device that serves my needs, created by a computer with a history of creating devices that serve my needs, a computer that stands by their products in ways that few other companies and so on.

Is there any reason a horse won't cover your transportation needs? If not, your car is pointless, according to you.

There's no reason to get the bare minimum of what will cover your needs when there are other options that have more utility.

you assume, and wrongly, that I am not aware of those other devices or the companies behind them. Surprise, I am. And none of them hit every point on my needs wish. the Ipad did.

You say you want "something that is easy to use one handed for emails, script reading etc." First off, one hand won't be able to reach even halfway across the iPad's display, so the iPad is not able to be used single-handedly. And as I asked, Can not one of your phones display emails and scripts? Or is there more to your "wish list" than you've mentioned? (Forgive me if you have posted a more complete list several pages back-- it's becoming somewhat difficult to keep track of who's given which response).