Swatch Prepares to Go Head-to-Head With Apple Watch

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,609
34,795
USA
We keep talking about "taptic" feedback like it's something new and never heard of before.

Yet, I'm finding a real hard time finding anything regarding taptic feedback as a real thing. it sounds again, similar to the "retina" moniker. It's a name Apple is inventing to apply to something that is already fairly common.

Doing research on the term Taptic doesn't report back very much. Just a bunch of articles on the Apple Watch.

What I can determine is that "taptic engine" that apple is using is just Haptic feedback.

Maybe i'm missing something, but what exactly is the "taptic engine" other than a haptic feedback engine, which is not exactly new or unique to Apple.

Oh I think it's definitely a Apple marketing term. What I gathered is that unlike other haptic alerts currently on watches - taptic feedback can be of varying strength and length. Right now smartwatches pretty much use a same-level strength of feedback regardless of alert. The # of pulses or length can be different.
 

Gameboy70

macrumors 6502a
Sep 21, 2011
502
217
Santa Monica, CA
Have you seen the demo videos on youbute? There are a lot of them from different tech sites which attended Apple Watch events. They are basically all the same:
They give the reporter a watch on a demo loop...then the Apple employee does a presentation on a working unit. Almost one third of the demo is focused on the tap and drawing feature -- another 1/3 of the presentation is wasted on showing how to change the watch faces and how to change the colors of those watch faces.
None if this has anything to do with what I said—that Apple spent 10 seconds mentioning the heartbeat messaging feature as an aside, while spending 10 minutes presenting the health features.

And no, Apple didn't spend "one third" of the demo on this. The entire tap, draw, and heartbeat messaging demonstration runs from 1:26:56 to 1:28:14, not even 90 seconds out of two hours.
As opposed to sending a text message saying, "Lunch" (or typing an "L" for "Lunch")? How did we ever survive the dark ages of technology. I'm glad humanity's suffering is about to reach an end (thank goodness, because it seems that without the Apple Watch human beings will just starve to death). ;)
Is there some reason you chose to omit my the end of my sentence, "(easy to type on a keyboard, hard on a watch)"? Your argument about its uselessness is just as valid against emoji, and yet emoji is used by millions every day.
 

Elvergun

macrumors 6502
Aug 1, 2011
295
101
None if this has anything to do with what I said—that Apple spent 10 seconds mentioning the heartbeat messaging feature as an aside, while spending 10 minutes presenting the health features.

And no, Apple didn't spend "one third" of the demo on this. The entire tap, draw, and heartbeat messaging demonstration runs from 1:26:56 to 1:28:14, not even 90 seconds out of two hours.
Apple employees at another event(s), however, did spend most of their time demoing the tap\draw\feature.

Is there some reason you chose to omit my the end of my sentence, "(easy to type on a keyboard, hard on a watch)"? Your argument about its uselessness is just as valid against emoji, and yet emoji is used by millions every day.
But do you really need to spend at least $350 to have another way to send an emoji or a letter? First world problems, I guess.
 

rjlawrencejr

macrumors 6502
Jun 7, 2007
392
41
LA/OC/IE
Yes, I am almost positive "taptic" is an Apple marketing term (which is why I referred to it as "taptic/haptic"). GameBoy70 is onto something by mentioning the emotional response people have had to the feature. You don't have to like it, but while it was only mentioned for a bit over a minute in Apple's presentation as something fun you can do with your watch, the response and coverage has been immense in comparison, further demonstrating how personal the feature is.
 

Gameboy70

macrumors 6502a
Sep 21, 2011
502
217
Santa Monica, CA
Apple employees at another event(s), however, did spend most of their time demoing the tap\draw\feature.
Irrelevant, as you're fully aware. Any demos outside of the Keynote can't be counted as "one third" of the presentation.

But do you really need to spend at least $350 to have another way to send an emoji or a letter? First world problems, I guess.
You're a true intellectual. I'm sure millions will be lining up to buy a device for the sole purpose of sending emojis and letters.
 

Elvergun

macrumors 6502
Aug 1, 2011
295
101
Irrelevant, as you're fully aware. Any demos outside of the Keynote can't be counted as "one third" of the presentation.
Irrelevant because you say so? Okey-dokey.

You're a true intellectual. I'm sure millions will be lining up to buy a device for the sole purpose of sending emojis and letters.
I guess you'll be one of them.

I hope your friends also buy an Apple Watch or you'll go hungry (or you will have to take your phone out of your pocket to type that "L").
 

viorelgn

macrumors 6502
Sep 16, 2013
295
3
Romania
Swatch was one of the first at the party. They arrived in 2004 with the Swatch Paparazzi, a smartwatch that used msn direct. They teamed up with Microsoft to create it. It was a catastrophic flop. That is why they were hesitant to rejoin the party.
 

Gameboy70

macrumors 6502a
Sep 21, 2011
502
217
Santa Monica, CA
Irrelevant because you say so?
Irrelevant because "Any demos outside of the keynote can't be counted as 'one third' of the presentation." At least you didn't omit the rationale this time, hence "as you're fully aware."

I guess you'll be one of them.
Most of what I care about in a smartwatch is notifications. I don't do emoji or any other abbreviated messaging.

I hope your friends also buy an Apple Watch or you'll go hungry (or you will have to take your phone out of your pocket to type that "L").
And the Nonsequitur of the Week Award goes to ...
 

Elvergun

macrumors 6502
Aug 1, 2011
295
101
Irrelevant because "Any demos outside of the keynote can't be counted as 'one third' of the presentation." At least you didn't omit the rationale this time, hence "as you're fully aware."
You keep going on about the keynote presentation. I never saw it and I never said one third of the keynote was about the tap function. You seem to have a hard time understanding. Let me say it again, one third of the youtube demos given by Apple employees focus on the tap\draw functionality. If it is irrelevant to you, that's your prerogative, but it goes against the point you were trying to make way back.
Most of what I care about in a smartwatch is notifications. I don't do emoji or any other abbreviated messaging.
But you do enjoy sending an "L" to your coworkers before you take off for lunch, right? Or at least you will once you get you Apple Watch, I suppose. :rolleyes:
 

bobob

macrumors 68030
Jan 11, 2008
2,872
1,629
Haptic feedback is a whole field of technology designed to expand on the use of the sensation of touch for information transmission. Comparing Apple's Taptic Engine to the simple vibrators on cellphones is like comparing a kiss and a handshake. The Taptic Engine will feel like someone "is ‘tapping’ you on the wrist to get your attention". Further it can do so in varying strengths and patterns such that it is being considered for applications such as invisibly guiding a walker on a mapped path by appropriate left and right taps. The Apple watch's Taptic Engine is just an early implementation of the haptic in wearable computers - - watch for this technology to blossom in the coming decade. The possibilities are endless.

Here's an article proposing Nine Unexpected Applications Of Apple Watch - - with a couple samples below (click to enlarge):



 

Gameboy70

macrumors 6502a
Sep 21, 2011
502
217
Santa Monica, CA
Let me say it again, one third of the youtube demos given by Apple employees focus on the tap\draw functionality.
There's nothing in the employee demos to journalists that wasn't already covered in the keynote, which contains the fullest breadth of information about the watch of any source to date. Any 5-minute spiel to the technorati will inevitably emphasize sizzle over steak, so those demo floor videos are worthless as sources of information. Besides, they're all from the same script, hence the repetition across videos.
If it is irrelevant to you, that's your prerogative, but it goes against the point you were trying to make way back.
The point I made way back was this:
It's interesting how the heartbeat sending feature has become such a lightning rod of criticism when it was only mentioned during the presentation in passing. It's a novelty feature, to be sure, but Apple spent 10 minutes on the health features and only 10 seconds on the heartbeat messaging.
Which was a response to Pilgrim1099, not you. That's when you jumped in, reframing the "presentation" reference as a bunch of demo floor videos on YouTube rather than the keynote.
But you do enjoy sending an "L" to your coworkers before you take off for lunch, right?
Like I said, "I don't do emoji or any other abbreviated messaging."
 

Elvergun

macrumors 6502
Aug 1, 2011
295
101
so those demo floor videos are worthless as sources of information. Besides, they're all from the same script, hence the repetition across videos.
The demo video were organized by Apple. It was the first time they showcased their watch, so regardless of what you think, they were indeed important. But like I said, ignore what you want and continue to focus only on the things you think will support what your argument.

Which was a response to Pilgrim1099, not you. That's when you jumped in
Err...you do know that this is a discussion board, not a private medium created so that you and Pilgrim1099 can exchange confidential messages.
 

Gameboy70

macrumors 6502a
Sep 21, 2011
502
217
Santa Monica, CA
The demo video were organized by Apple. It was the first time they showcased their watch, so regardless of what you think, they were indeed important.
The first time they showcased their watch was in the auditorium beforehand, where the complete presentation was held. The subsequent press demos are important to those who missed the keynote, which is something I wouldn't debate.
Err...you do know that this is a discussion board, not a private medium created so that you and Pilgrim1099 can exchange confidential messages.
Not the point. I was addressing the sequence of the argument, not whether you had a right to step in. The sequence was: (1) I said, in response to Pilgrim, that people were overindexing on the heartbeat messaging, pointing out that it was actually a tiny sliver of the keynote presentation; (2) you rebutted this, pointing out all the demo videos on YouTube where a large chuck of the presentation focused on drawing and heartbeat messaging; (3) I responded that none of that (i.e. the YT videos) had anything to do with what I said (the content of the keynote); (4) you said that I "keep going on about keynote presentation," which was actually the starting point for the discussion on my end.
 

Sigma4Life

macrumors member
Apr 26, 2008
51
34
Texas
Of course you have to wait reviews , but I posted it because of the concept whch for me seems better integrated.

And no, the height is 16.5mm, apple watch is 12/13mm.
Are you referring to their desired specs or the ACTUAL specs of the real functioning test hardware? The test watch in the video is huge, definitely seems thicker than 16.5mm.
 
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Sigma4Life

macrumors member
Apr 26, 2008
51
34
Texas
We keep talking about "taptic" feedback like it's something new and never heard of before.

Yet, I'm finding a real hard time finding anything regarding taptic feedback as a real thing. it sounds again, similar to the "retina" moniker. It's a name Apple is inventing to apply to something that is already fairly common.

Doing research on the term Taptic doesn't report back very much. Just a bunch of articles on the Apple Watch.

What I can determine is that "taptic engine" that apple is using is just Haptic feedback.

Maybe i'm missing something, but what exactly is the "taptic engine" other than a haptic feedback engine, which is not exactly new or unique to Apple.
The thing that's new about Taptic is it is discrete and feels like a person tapping you on the wrist (Apple's words). No other smart watch I'm aware of has any sort of physical feedback, only beeps and alerts.
 

k995

macrumors 6502a
Jan 23, 2010
881
133
Are you referring to their desired specs or the ACTUAL specs of the real functioning test hardware? The test watch in the video is huge, definitely seems thicker than 16.5mm.
I dont see how a company that already has prototypes would lie .

Dont really know why you are trying to find negative things about this watch, I refered it to the concept, not the actual watch.

Again its clear that even small companies with limited funds can make something great. If this version is bigger then others, no doubt the next will be smaller. Point remains you dont need billions and years to make something great.
 

Sigma4Life

macrumors member
Apr 26, 2008
51
34
Texas
I dont see how a company that already has prototypes would lie .

Dont really know why you are trying to find negative things about this watch, I refered it to the concept, not the actual watch.

Again its clear that even small companies with limited funds can make something great. If this version is bigger then others, no doubt the next will be smaller. Point remains you dont need billions and years to make something great.
The issues I pointed out were immediately obvious. The concept video looked very cool but the real thing was not nearly as good. The real watch looked huge and the screen was very washed out. My initial impression is their marketing team created a concept watch that their engineering team may not be able to match. Good luck to them though, more competition is a good thing.

You are right that making a great product does not require billions of dollars, but it does give Apple a HUGE advantage. For Apple there is no technical problem too expensive to solve. That's a MAJOR advantage whether you want to admit it or not.
 

k995

macrumors 6502a
Jan 23, 2010
881
133
The issues I pointed out were immediately obvious. The concept video looked very cool but the real thing was not nearly as good. The real watch looked huge and the screen was very washed out. My initial impression is their marketing team created a concept watch that their engineering team may not be able to match. Good luck to them though, more competition is a good thing.
Obvious? You thought it was vaporware at first . You seem to be determined to find flaws in this . You can say the same about the apple watch, it looks bulky to me as well, and the interface seems ****. Let alone if the rumored battery life is acurate .

But I reserve such comments until I actually try one and see for myself .


And you still miss my point, the concept to me seems a lot better then what apple had .



You are right that making a great product does not require billions of dollars, but it does give Apple a HUGE advantage. For Apple there is no technical problem too expensive to solve. That's a MAJOR advantage whether you want to admit it or not.
It can but it can also be a downside, apple has its eco system and its way of working and its design concepts and its already present sof and hardware and ... Companies like that have trouble innovating because they have a way of working and power structures in a company. The best designs or ideas arent necessarily what gets built .
 

eljanitor

macrumors 6502
Feb 10, 2011
391
2
I didn't know swatch still existed. I remember overpriced crappy watches that were very trendy in the 80's. ( and yes I had one) I never even saw swatch after 1990 anywhere.
 

kdarling

macrumors P6
The thing that's new about Taptic is it is discrete and feels like a person tapping you on the wrist (Apple's words). No other smart watch I'm aware of has any sort of physical feedback, only beeps and alerts.
Perhaps you're thinking of some old Casio with an alarm?

EVERY smartwatch that I know of... even $30 Chinese clones... use vibrations to silently alert the wearer. Not beeps.

Some of them allow the user to modify the intensity and even the patterns, so that the user can immediately tell what kind of silent notification they're getting.

In fact, the silent alert is one of their early social downsides. A wearer will suddenly glance at their watch, for what seems to be no reason. Other people around them will often respond with, "Is there someplace you need to be?" because that's what glancing at a watch usually means. As more people own smartwatches or get used to them, this legacy reaction to watch glances will morph into something more modern.

We keep talking about "taptic" feedback like it's something new and never heard of before.
...
What I can determine is that "taptic engine" that apple is using is just Haptic feedback.
Yep, haptics are not new. For example, Samsung started integrating Immersion Technology's TouchSense haptic engine back in 2012 with the Galaxy S3:

"The Samsung Galaxy S III has finally arrived, and its got an advanced feature called Auto Haptic that uses vibration to create engaging physical response in downloaded 3rd party apps. With Auto Haptic, you can feel the sling stretch as you fling an angry bird and feel the impact of a grenade explosion in a first person shooter game..." Customizing the Samsung Galaxy S III’s Auto Haptic Feature


And now uses it all over:

"Immersion Corporation (IMMR), the leading developer and licensor of touch feedback technology, today announced that the recently launched Samsung Galaxy S5, Samsung Gear 2, Samsung Gear 2 Neo and Samsung Gear Fit feature Immersion’s haptic technology, TouchSense® software. With a full range of tactile effects for various uses in each device, Samsung’s integration of TouchSense in the Galaxy S5 and Gear devices offer a more personalized and intuitive experience for the consumer."

Yet, I'm finding a real hard time finding anything regarding taptic feedback as a real thing. it sounds again, similar to the "retina" moniker. It's a name Apple is inventing to apply to something that is already fairly common.
Yes, Apple often invents a new name when they're not first at something.

Retina is a good example. The first "retina" smartphone was the Toshiba G900 (WVGA screen at 312 PPI) that came out about the same time as the first iPhone in mid 2007. Other "retina displays" that predate the 2010 iPhone 4 include the 2008 Sony Xperia X1 (312 PPI) and the 2009 Samsung Jet (301 PPI).

Of course, back then they were advertised as having "print quality" (300+DPI) screens. Since Apple didn't want to be seen as "not the first" at print quality, they came up with the alternative marketing name "retina" for the exact same thing.
 

bobob

macrumors 68030
Jan 11, 2008
2,872
1,629
The Taptic Engine utilizes a linear actuator, whereas typical smartwatch vibration alerts are produced "by a small electric motor connected to an off-center weight".

I suggest people who haven't personally felt the effect of the Taptic Engine (including myself) refrain from providing detailed opinions on the experience.

Here's another take on it's potential:

Real Touch messaging has the potential to take that connection one step further, and Apple seems to be trying to strip conversation down, encouraging a simplified shorthand.

Here's how it works.

Say you want to contact someone. Instead of sending a text, the Apple Watch lets you tap a finger against the watch face, creating a customized touch message that the other person will feel.

Think of it like tapping someone on the shoulder, or giving someone's hand a squeeze. It'll depend on your relationship with the person, but it's easy to see how being able to digitally reach out someone's wrist and make them feel a specific touch could be extremely powerful.
 

kdarling

macrumors P6
The Taptic Engine utilizes a linear actuator, whereas typical smartwatch vibration alerts are produced "by a small electric motor connected to an off-center weight".
On a related note, some smartphone makers like Samsung, LG and Nokia switched to linear actuators several years ago.

After using one in the 4S, then going back to an eccentric motor to save space in the 5 series, Apple has now apparently switched for good with the larger iPhone 6 series.

Even better is a piezo actuator, but I don't know if anyone's using those yet... although Samsung Electronics is one manufacturer of them.

I suggest people who haven't personally felt the effect of the Taptic Engine (including myself) refrain from providing detailed opinions on the experience.
Apple does note that they combine the output of a speaker with the vibration from the actuator, in order to get more realistic effects.

In the meantime, for people who are curious, there are some demo apps in the Android Play Store with haptic library samples.
 
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