He spent 12 years at Apple. That's not an indication of loyalty or lack thereof, but what do you see as an indication of selfish decisions? Genuinely confused by your comment.
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Swift Creator and Former Apple Engineer Chris Lattner Joins Google's AI Team
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It's beneficial for Google. It's about $1,5 - $2 per active user per year. Every user will return that on advertisement clicks in a matter of a few days. Don't forget that most of the first searches are actually adds, for example try to search some products, such as for example Microsoft Office or Adobe Photoshop.
It absolutely is to google's advantage but another user here said Apple is helping Google data mine. I don't see how someone visiting Google.com intentionally and making a search is any different from someone accidentally visiting google.com when making a search and how Apple's at fault here. If Google was the ONLY search engine available on IOS devices, that'd be a serious issue but it's not. I personally use DuckDuck Go.
Hmmm. I cannot fault anyone wanting to step up their game and advance both their career, minds and personal existence. Nor should you nor anyone else. He's done incredible things at Apple and for a VERY long time that we and we're ALL going to benefit for decades to come: SWIFT!
read on ...
more than likely GMail, and analytics in just about everything Google does ... including machine learning: somethign Apple should've been more enticing on before he left, not give it to engineers with no real full machine coding experience.
I was told once that anyone working for any 1 business more than 4yrs has no value to that company:
Just siphoning knowledge to protect/secure their employment further as well as no longer fully advancing themselves exponentially just incrementally to stay useful or relevant within their position or slowly climb up the ladder.
You'll notice a LOT of coders and engineers across The Valley have employment histories that fall in line with this ideal/observation.
See someone gets it.
Have to love the excuse machine that gets rolled out for anything and everyone linked to Apple. What will the excuses be when the dude pops up at FB next year?
Exactly. Then withnin 2 months they'll congratulate this same guy after working on something back at Apple that we've been all waiting for before knowing it.
Agreed. Sounds like he was on a nice upward trajectory at Apple. Hell, they had him on the keynote as well when Swift was introduced. Clearly he blew it and will regret it years from now.
Why is that? At Google he won't have boundaries on AI which creates a heck of a lot more interesting possibilities than he'd ever have at Apple. Maybe he's excited to take a ride outside the fenced in playground that Apple restricts its employees to, in the sense of the end product that is.
Also, I shouldn't be surprised that so many of you take this so personally even though you don't even know the guy or anyone at apple, let alone you don't work at apple yet you act as if it's your child. Ease up, it's a company that doesn't care about you... only your money.
Actually, it's taking a story and representing it for exactly what it is - Apple profiting from Google's buying and selling of user data. What makes it even more pernicious was Tim Cook's self-righteous speech about companies selling privacy (aimed squarely at Google). Naturally that speech was delivered before details of Apple's secret arrangement with Google came to light.
"Cook lost no time in directing comments at companies (obviously, though not explicitly) like Facebook and Google, which rely on advertising to users based on the data they collect from them for a portion, if not a majority, of their income."
“I’m speaking to you from Silicon Valley, where some of the most prominent and successful companies have built their businesses by lulling their customers into complacency about their personal information,” said Cook. “They’re gobbling up everything they can learn about you and trying to monetize it. We think that’s wrong. And it’s not the kind of company that Apple wants to be.”
https://techcrunch.com/2015/06/02/apples-tim-cook-delivers-blistering-speech-on-encryption-privacy/
If Cook is willing to so blatantly misrepresent Apple's position on what Google does then you have to question what else Apple is misrepresenting about their privacy policy.
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The mother of all nightmares. Ada was created for systems of that importance - which is why it is being used on jet fighters.
Why Google is a much better place to work if you are interested in research. Especially Google Brain. Loads of Stanford, Cal, MIT, and other place PhDs. Lot of resources. Freedom to try and fail and try again. If is like being a top research university where you can pick your own problems, create your own team, and not have to every worry about funding.
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Everything I have seen says the F-35 is in C++ with COTS software tools. Older fighters used Ada.
LMAO! Yeah right. Just how many developers at Apple are capable of building and leading an entire team within 12years to build not one but 2 SDK's used for coding for OSX, WatchOS, iOS, TVOS altogether with this level of robustness AND being the FASTEST SDK downloaded and used across the globe (Swift) in less than 6mths!
I could guess that besides Apple Employee #3 (search him up) being the only one close to doing so - if he's still at Apple. He's been able to create an SDK singlehandedly btw.
Sounds and by fact he's contributed an incredible amount of energy to Apple and all their current developers over the last 12yrs and by which you benefit from like the rest of Apple users across the globe using Apple's products!
He was featured in many swift WWDC developer presentations as well as for XCode over the years - not just one presentation like you imply. Do the research before eating toe jam please ?
I don't know how deep the web works but I do recall only BlackBerry in the days of Altavista on command line having ability to parse user typed credentials over a search or portal or protocol across the web for email sign on and ports and checking validity.
On iOS Mail Setup for GMail and Outlook accounts there is a redirect on the credential entry screen ... are those passed over the web openly or securely? Does google keep that information? I really don't know. Maybe a research answer and discussion over PM and such.
Why? Because the consensus at Apple is Google ripped them off. However, you both make good points, so I'll concur.
If you believe it was his decision in any way to leave - you are most likely mistaken. He was hired into the lead position on an AI project with little or no actual work experience in AI -- it was not a wise choice for Tesla.
So the only job he had control over - Apple - he stayed for a reasonably long time... I don't consider that to be a company-jumper (in a detrimental way). He seems to be a reasonably smart person and I am sure that being hired onto a new AI team where he will be in a position to grow into it and learn more from others with more AI experience on that team. I have no doubt he will succeed in his current position (I had significant doubts when he went to Tesla). I wish him well.
This is not a top-secret story that's just coming to light:
2012: https://hothardware.com/news/apple-reportedly-milked-google-for-1-billion-in-search-agreement
2012: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/mar/14/apple-ftc-google-iphone-ipad?newsfeed=true
2013: https://techcrunch.com/2013/02/12/g...next-year-to-be-default-search-engine-on-ios/
2014: https://www.theinformation.com/All-Eyes-on-Apple-as-Google-Search-Deal-Expires-Next-Year
2015: http://searchengineland.com/apple-google-deal-expires-will-win-safari-default-search-business-214277
2016: https://www.macrumors.com/2016/01/21/google-apple-ios-search-engine-deal/
Google and Apple have been in bed ever since Maps & YouTube were pre-loaded into iPhone 1 in 2007. Just like with Mozilla FireFox, Google pays annually to Apple to be the preferred search engine.
There is an angle where we can frame it as Apple helping Google mine data but all Apple is doing is sending the user to Google by default when the user enters a search except for Siri which uses Bing.
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What would anti-Google users have Apple do? Prompt the user the first time they open Safari asking them what search engine they'd prefer? Once the user answered the question, Apple would still be helping Google every time a user searched if they had chosen Google.
I don't use Google's services except Voice & YouTube and don't use their search engine but I can't fault them for making an extra billion a year on an option that is completely up to the user and is changeable in Settings ---Safari.
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You raise a good point about the pop-up login screens that appear within Apple Settings. It's essential for Apple to support 2-factor authentication within those services w/o having to constantly change their code as Google makes changes to theirs.
As for what's passed over. who knows? There was a recent story about companies tracking what you type into a form in real-time without having to hit submit. If you type in your email and close the page, the email was still transmitted to them. Scary ****. I would assume Google does the same.
Their customers are advertisers. We are the product. That's their entire business model. I hope enough people will start paying for Google Music, YouTube TV/Red and other Google services to lower their dependence on advertisers but I don't think Google can go back from Android being free. They'd lose half of their marketshare if they started licensing it to handsets. Charging for a product to the consumer is just against their culture and their customers won't pay $5 a year to get Gmail ad-free not en masse enough to offset the billions they make from advertising revenue today. Isn't it like $75 a year they make per active Google customer? Could you imagine them asking a billion people to pay them $75 a year? No way.
Yep. Employed in 3 major tech firms inside of a 12-month period, so I still stand by my company-jumper assessment.
At Apple, he actually got the opportunity to make something innovative (Swift), something that (5-10 years from now) may be considered game-changing in the tech world. Will he strike the lottery twice and get to create another world-changing innovation at Google? Who knows. He seems like a smart guy, so it's possible. But sometimes him being a genius is not enough. Google has to believe in him and give him enough support / freedom / encouragement to create wonderful things. Apparently Apple groomed and believed in him enough to have become a Swift team leader, to the point that he was given Keynote recognition.
But like so many "creative geniuses" in the tech industry, the vast majority of them end up as one-hit wonders.
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Then you were told wrong. This Lattner guy was at Apple for many years (past 4 years) before he made his greatest and most notable contribution, which is Swift.
If your someone-once-told-you theory was correct, then you would believe that Lattner should have quit Apple years before Swift even had a chance to be created. Do you believe that he should have left Apple after 4 years of employment? Guess what. Sometimes it pays magnificently to be patient and stay for the long term. That he stayed long enough at Apple to have made an awesome contribution (Swift) I give him kudos for that.
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It's quite possible. After all, Google had embraced Apple's Webkit, did they not?
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Depends on how much you dislike your current job. If I had been with a company for 10 years and started to see it change for (personal opinion) the worse over the last couple years, I would also look to abandon ship. Making a change could easily be the best decision you've ever made. You're right about management though, it's hard to sniff those experiences out from Glassdoor and other sources.
You misinterpreted my post, I think.
The standard usually is 4yrs ... not something I believe nor should think Lattner should've done while working at Apple. I meant that we'll probably see this within his career going forward - I should've been more clear on that. I know what he's done and he's contributed to XCode as well not just Swift (read the previous post I made in this thread
)BTW ... a Google and Apple engineer BOTH workd on WebKit (creating, developing and distributing it) from the get go. I'll bet you don't know the first phone ever to use it?
BET: Nokia N80 (Symbian S60 device).
Which I found very funny when Jobs debuted the iPhone OG stating that phones get the "baby internet" when the Nokia featured, E61 had the very second version of WebKit as its native browser (it debuted after the N80).
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Great research!
I'd honestly had hoped Google's users would mount a massive 3mth drop - cold turkey in their services across continents. A big enough hit for Google to PAY it's consumers month for the data it mines from them currently freely. My take is if you're going to be punked for everything you do, might as well at the very least get paid for it - they are!
Solomani, I don't think that's an accurate perception of what Lattner did at Apple. Swift is awesome, but before Swift Lattner already made a huge impact with LLVM (LLVM will ultimately have more impact than Swift I'd argue but that's for another thread) and running parts of – eventually all of – Apple's developer tools division for many years. Just running teams of that size is a lot, and he lists plenty more stuff he's done on his public resume if you want to see: http://nondot.org/sabre/Resume.html
I really don't mean offense, but I just don't get the hostility in this thread. I've never worked at Apple but from talking with engineers who have (including in the developer tools division) by all accounts the dude is smart, great to work with, and an effective leader (a pretty rare combination). I'm sure his former coworkers at Apple wish him the best, and I don't see why we shouldn't as well
I really don't mean offense, but I just don't get the hostility in this thread. I've never worked at Apple but from talking with engineers who have (including in the developer tools division) by all accounts the dude is smart, great to work with, and an effective leader (a pretty rare combination). I'm sure his former coworkers at Apple wish him the best, and I don't see why we shouldn't as well