Swimming Pool Tech Talk

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

... I'll remind you that the YMCA pool water is not pure, but pretty heavy on the chlorine.

Huntn, my friend, was why the word 'pure' was in quotation marks.

I do notice a difference in my buoyancy in the sea (mediterranean) as opposed to being in a pool. If I lie flat, with arms and legs spread out, I sink in a pool, but I float in the sea.

 

[Huntn]

I just got done replacing our Pentair LL505G Kreepy Krauly Legend Pressure-Side Inground Pool Cleaner.
The old one was 8 years old, it’s possible that a guest stepped on it and cracked the frame. Usually I take it out when people are in the pool, or I park it in a corner in the deep end, but that could of happened. Eight years is still a good life out of it.

Nothing particularly hard, the manual was pretty bad though. I talked to Pentair tech support who agreed the manual was bad describing how to cut the hose for the size of the pool, but the person I talked to obviously had no installation experience. I see this often in Corporate tech support depts. The local dealer helped me out with a description.

As the hose (from the wall of the pool to the unit) ages and loses flexibility, it can cause problems where the hose turns into a pretzel while the unit drives around the pool. The hose assembly itself is $200. One of my goals is to look for a third party hose for the future when the new hose starts to act up. The original hose lasted for eight years, but this summer has been giving me fits with pretzels. The new hose is now operating, and the it just avoids turning itself into knots, because it is so soft and flexible.

Of note, buying online saved me $130 from a Pentair dealer. My local dealer who installed the pool wanted $600 with a $50 mail in rebate. Online, I found it for $460 marked as on sale at a dealer in California with free shipping and tax free!

 

[A.Goldberg]

I just got done replacing our Pentair LL505G Kreepy Krauly Legend Pressure-Side Inground Pool Cleaner.
The old one was 8 years old, it’s possible that a guest stepped on it and cracked the frame. Usually I take it out when people are in the pool, or I park it in a corner in the deep end, but that could of happened. Eight years is still a good life out of it.

View attachment 849854​

Nothing particularly hard, the manual was pretty bad though. I talked to Pentair tech support who agreed the manual was bad describing how to cut the hose for the size of the pool, but the person I talked to obviously had no installation experience. I see this often in Corporate tech support depts. The local dealer helped me out with a description.

As the hose (from the wall of the pool to the unit) ages and loses flexibility, it can cause problems where the hose turns into a pretzel while the unit drives around the pool. The hose assembly itself is $200. One of my goals is to look for a third party hose for the future when the new hose starts to act up. The original hose lasted for eight years, but this summer has been giving me fits with pretzels. The new hose is now operating, and the it just avoids turning itself into knots, because it is so soft and flexible.

Of note, buying online saved me $130 from a Pentair dealer. My local dealer who installed the pool wanted $600 with a $50 mail in rebate. Online, I found it for $460 marked as on sale at a dealer in California with free shipping and tax free!

$200 is ridiculous price for a hose, especially considering it’s almost 1/2 to 1/3 of the price of the unit... but I suppose that’s pool equipment for you.

I believe this is the hose you’re looking for (32ft):
https://www.amazon.com/Pentair-LL209-Hose-Replacement-Cleaner/dp/B002NJMDI8

I believe the Pentair are the same or similar to Polaris, which I’ve seen before. I think if you did some research you might be able to find the materials to rebuild the hose without spending $150-200. That said, having a functioning automatic pool cleaner is just about priceless... especially where I grew up (Connecticut- lots of foliage, temperature changes, rain, etc that influence the cleanliness of the pool).

My parents put in a pool when they built their house. For the first several years guess who had to clean it weekly? They eventually got a Aquabot robotic cleaner. It died several years ago when electronics fried. A couple years ago my sister and I got them a Hayward Tiger Shark robotic cleaning at the recommendation of the guy who built the pool. So far as I know it’s been great. Although the robotic cleaners cost a bit more, not having to deal with pump suction or pressure seems worth it to me.

One of those recessed automatic pool covers would have been a great investment when they built the pool. Additionally, having a suction port at the bottom of the pool to turn on to sweep debris into would have been nice (not sure if those were allowed back then or today).

At this point I’m sure deep down my parents would really just love a backhoe to just fill the pool in since no one uses it, the kids are grown and the dogs are deceased. As a competitive swimmer I never found the 20x40 size useful for exercise. Now it’s just an extra cost to operate, maintain, and insure. And pools in New England don’t necessarily add much if any value to the house.

 

[Huntn]

$200 is ridiculous price for a hose, especially considering it’s almost 1/2 to 1/3 of the price of the unit... but I suppose that’s pool equipment for you.

I believe this is the hose you’re looking for (32ft):
https://www.amazon.com/Pentair-LL209-Hose-Replacement-Cleaner/dp/B002NJMDI8

I believe the Pentair are the same or similar to Polaris, which I’ve seen before. I think if you did some research you might be able to find the materials to rebuild the hose without spending $150-200. That said, having a functioning automatic pool cleaner is just about priceless... especially where I grew up (Connecticut- lots of foliage, temperature changes, rain, etc that influence the cleanliness of the pool).

My parents put in a pool when they built their house. For the first several years guess who had to clean it weekly? They eventually got a Aquabot robotic cleaner. It died several years ago when electronics fried. A couple years ago my sister and I got them a Hayward Tiger Shark robotic cleaning at the recommendation of the guy who built the pool. So far as I know it’s been great. Although the robotic cleaners cost a bit more, not having to deal with pump suction or pressure seems worth it to me.

One of those recessed automatic pool covers would have been a great investment when they built the pool. Additionally, having a suction port at the bottom of the pool to turn on to sweep debris into would have been nice (not sure if those were allowed back then or today).

At this point I’m sure deep down my parents would really just love a backhoe to just fill the pool in since no one uses it, the kids are grown and the dogs are deceased. As a competitive swimmer I never found the 20x40 size useful for exercise. Now it’s just an extra cost to operate, maintain, and insure. And pools in New England don’t necessarily add much if any value to the house.

Agreed on all points. Thank’s for that link! I’d save $50 compared to my local dealer. I saved pieces of the new hose and will search around and see if an equivalent exists as just the hose. I’ve already got all the floats and the swivel connectors are not that expensive.

• Ongoing pool expense, not drastic so far.
• Wife wanted a pool in Minnesota and I politely told her no way, although the neighbors had one. Besides adding probably $70 a month to the electric bill, gets real expensive when you have to heat it, in addition to over winter maintenance. And up there they did not pour a concrete pool, but used a plastic liner which was a pretty penny to replace every 5-7 years.
• Pools in cold climates can lower the value of the house, unless you find someone who wants one. I suspect they would be in the minority.
• Our pool was designed including a booster pump which this particular Legend needs. My understanding is there is another one that looks identical which does not need a separate pump, but I don’t know what propels it.
• For exercise, me too, I head to the Y.

 

[0388631]

I've only had a few swims this summer since our hot weather hasn't kicked in until just recently. Might take a dip today.

 

[44267547]

@Huntn

It’s a 25 foot pool. It’s total depth is 4.5 feet in the middle. (This isn’t your traditional pool where as you walk and it becomes deeper). The entire pool around the edges is actually only 2.5 feet (only one side the pool actually has a seated edged, and then in the middle of it concaves at 4.5 feet. (Under an ordinance covenant, 6 feet is the Max.)

Also, because of the set up of the pool, any robotic/hydraulic deep cleansers wouldn’t be efficient because of how it’s not a ‘flat bottom’.

If you look at the far north photo of the pool, you’ll see an aluminum slip, there is a neo-glide cover that covers the entire pool. Other than that, I just use a net for upkeep. The biggest issue is actually frogs making its way into the pool, which It’s a mess, because the chemical composition from the pool, causes their innards to implode. [literally].

And ‘winterizing‘ is by a pool company. Speaking of pool companies, they’re services are totally booked out (And have been) with the stay-cations this summer due to C/19. My neighbor builds decks for a living and he’s been slammed with pool/deck custom builds. A lot of pool accessories are sold out. Crazy.

Quick edit:

I forgot to mention, that’s not Astroturf, it’s just a cheap synthetic faux grass that’s plastered into recessed crevices for decoration only.

 

[Huntn]

@Huntn

It’s a 25 foot pool. It’s total depth is 4.5 feet in the middle. (This isn’t your traditional pool where as you walk and it becomes deeper). The entire pool around the edges is actually only 2.5 feet (only one side the pool actually has a seated edged, and then in the middle of it concaves at 4.5 feet. (Under an ordinance covenant, 6 feet is the Max.)

Also, because of the set up of the pool, any robotic/hydraulic deep cleansers wouldn’t be efficient because of how it’s not a ‘flat bottom’.

If you look at the far north photo of the pool, you’ll see an aluminum slip, there is a neo-glide cover that covers the entire pool. Other than that, I just use a net for upkeep. The biggest issue is actually frogs making its way into the pool, which It’s a mess, because the chemical composition from the pool, causes their innards to implode. [literally].

And ‘winterizing‘ is by a pool company. Speaking of pool companies, they’re services are totally booked out (And have been) with the stay-cations this summer due to C/19. My neighbor builds decks for a living and he’s been slammed with pool/deck custom builds. A lot of pool accessories are sold out. Crazy.

I suppose someone told you a Pentair Legend would not work but my pool bottom is not perfectly flat either. Now if you keep the pool covered when not in use, it’s probably a none issue, but as someone who has an uncovered 35’ pool with tall pine trees around it, it is a life saver. The only thing is, it would require a retrofit after the fact to add one. It needs it’s own pump. Fortunately in weather zone 9, there is no winterizing that needs to be done.

What are the chemicals your pool uses? I considered salt, but decided chlorine was better and I rescue baby frogs from the pool on a semi-regular basis alive and kicking.

 

[44267547]

I suppose someone told you a Pentair Legend would not work but my pool bottom is not perfectly flat either. Now if you keep the pool covered when not in use, it’s probably a none issue, but as someone who has an uncovered 35’ pool with tall pine trees around it, it is a life saver. The only thing is, it would require a retrofit after the fact to add one. It needs it’s own pump. Fortunately in weather zone 9, there is no winterizing that needs to be done.

What are the chemicals your pool uses? I considered salt, but decided chlorine was better and I rescue baby frogs from the pool on a semi-regular basis alive and kicking.

Chlorine and Calcium hypochlorite. And I throw these little stabilizer tablets (They’re the size of a Tide Pod) that floats in a disk as as an additive. That’s it.

And I’m big in covering the pool when not in use. My neighbors have 5 children, and I don’t want any accidents if they were to come over unattended. (Plus, my home insurance would drop me in a second.)

The frogs is a huge problem. They slip through the crevices and it’s game over. There is nothing I can do, even with the pool covered they find a way in.

How deep is your pool? Do you drain yours periodically? Since you live in a warm climate, I imagine you probably drain yours once, maybe twice a year? Obviously where I’m at, I’m forced to drain no matter what.

The only thing I would change, is adding Submerged Fluorescent lighting in the pool for night Conditions, but that’s a whole different project that’s costly.

 

[Huntn]

Chlorine and Calcium hypochlorite. And I throw these little stabilizer tablets (They’re the size of a Tide Pod) that floats in a disk as as an additive. That’s it.

And I’m big in covering the pool when not in use. My neighbors have 5 children, and I don’t want any accidents if they were to come over unattended. (Plus, my home insurance would drop me in a second.)

The frogs is a huge problem. They slip through the crevices and it’s game over. There is nothing I can do, even with the pool covered they find a way in.

How deep is your pool? Do you drain yours periodically? Since you live in a warm climate, I imagine you probably drain yours once, maybe twice a year? Obviously where I’m at, I’m forced to drain no matter what.

The only thing I would change, is adding Submerged Fluorescent lighting in the pool for night Conditions, but that’s a whole different project that’s costly.

Our pool ranges from 4’-6’ deep. I estimated 15-16000 gallons. The pool maybe 30’ instead of 35’, I can give you exact dimensions when I get home. We live in a hot climate, 4 months of 90s degree daytime temps. The pool is about 7-8 years old. It is equipped with a chlorinator that uses 3” chlorine tablets that includes sodium borate tetrahydrate, a chemical that moderates PH, is hostile to algae, safe for humans, reduces chlorine requirements, and completely eliminates the need to drain the pool ever. I can give you a chlorine brand name when I get home, estimated Sun-Monday. Remind me please if you want to know.

I added this link, but I need to get home to verify if I got the name right and this article is discussiing what is included in my tablets

4 Reasons to Add Borate in Your Swimming Pool or Spa

Borate prevents pH drifting, which results in calcium scaling, metal stains, cloudy water, algae, and hard pool water. This article will provide you with expert tips for adding borate to your pool.

dengarden.com

My Impression is that without borates, it would be required to drain the pool every six years, or so about 70% of the water due to dead chlorine accumulating in the pool. My impression is that draining once or twice a year would be extreme overkill under any circumstance.

Note our pool water is not lethal to frogs.

 

[44267547]

95° yesterday and swimming was the primary:

Few Other photos-

The Pentair 2V pump is probably a little overkill for this pool, but at least a 10 year lifespan.

These chlorinated tablets Literally dissolve in 30 minutes or less. It’s actually cheaper than the liquid form.

If you look on the ‘swimmers ledge’, that actually has Hydro jets, more than a novelty than anything, but entertaining when you have guests over.

 

[0388631]

Two recommendations for you.

1) Build or buy a cover frame for your pump and plumbing. It will serve a few purposes for both summer and winter.

2) Don't ever touch those tablets with your bare hands. Dry or wet. There's a reason pool specialists carry disposable or work gloves to handle that stuff.

The way that pool and yard is setup... that has to be a new construction. It's way too clean to even be in its second season and I can't make out any place that's been pressure washed before. Your grass crisscross edging is also far too clean to have been there for a few years.


That said, our pool has been getting heavy use lately. August means warm mornings, and I was taking laps at around 7 AM yesterday as it was still warm outside!

 

[0388631]

Pools in cold climates can lower the value of the house, unless you find someone who wants one. I suspect they would be in the minority.

Does this apply to indoor pools as well? I'll sometimes search investment property in the midwest and up north and indoor pools are a common theme in my search results. They don't make sense here. I'm not sure what a plastic liner pool is. Is that the thick tarp they put down with multiple mesh layers and then spray it down with a flexible rock like material? The only pools I don't like are those horizon pools which have a drop off return system. They're becoming more common around here regardless of land deformity during construction. They don't look right to me in that my brain sees it as dangerous. Sure, they're pretty but the added costs of preventing material fatigue over time isn't nice. Or pools done in a split elevation yard. Makes sense if it's ground level. I've seen two listings now with elevated poured pools.

 

[Huntn]

Does this apply to indoor pools as well? I'll sometimes search investment property in the midwest and up north and indoor pools are a common theme in my search results. They don't make sense here. I'm not sure what a plastic liner pool is. Is that the thick tarp they put down with multiple mesh layers and then spray it down with a flexible rock like material? The only pools I don't like are those horizon pools which have a drop off return system. They're becoming more common around here regardless of land deformity during construction. They don't look right to me in that my brain sees it as dangerous. Sure, they're pretty but the added costs of preventing material fatigue over time isn't nice. Or pools done in a split elevation yard. Makes sense if it's ground level. I've seen two listings now with elevated poured pools.

To save money I think they dig a hole, smooth the sides and insert a heavy duty liner to hold the water. I believe only the water holds it in place other than the rim on top. Very expensive to replace as in every 6-8 years, not sure. This may be considered the best construction method for a pool in a cold climate where the frost line is 3’ or so down. Check with a contracter.

I considered an indoor endless pool in the basement in Mnnesota, but the idea of introducing a lot of moisture into the house scared me. As to whether it’s a negative I think it would boil down to the same criteria with a slight edge, because I think the endless pool would be easier and less expensive to get rid of than an in-ground pool.

 

[0388631]

To save money I think they dig a hole, smooth the sides and insert a heavy duty liner to hold the water. I believe only the water holds it in place other than the rim on top. Very expensive to replace as in every 6-8 years, not sure. This may be considered the best construction method for a pool in a cold climate where the frost line is 3’ or so down. Check with a contracter.

I considered an indoor endless pool in the basement in Mnnesota, but the idea of introducing a lot of moisture into the house scared me. As to whether it’s a negative I think it would boil down to the same criteria with a slight edge, because I think the endless pool would be easier and less expensive to get rid of than an in-ground pool.

I forget the specifics as I probably saw it in 2010 or 2011, but there was this video of a family with a large "yard" of several acres and flat land they dug up and substrate, and leveled off with valleys to make a giant pool and used a heavy black liner topped off with a lighter one. It was half the size of the pond pool on YouTube. I thought those were seasonal until your post.

 

[44267547]

Bummer. The handle on my net fitting cracked today and now I can’t use the extension Wand (And no, please don’t suggest ducttape or zip ties, neither of which I will use.) I’m fairly particular, and I love this freakin net, as it would really pick up some fine particles in the pool, the ‘other’ in-store nets are garbage. This particular net was called ‘Micro net’, and I can’t find it anywhere for the life of me online to match the Extension wand. If anybody has any specific answers where this one is available or viable Alternatives for a quality brand, I’m open to suggestions.

 

[0388631]

Dumb suggestion incoming. If it's in two pieces, insert a wooden dowel in the inside and glue it using a two stage epoxy. Then use JB Wel on the cracked portion. Otherwise get a manifying glass and look over everything. There should be a serial number or a string of numbers somewhere you can plug into Google.

The groove and tongue on that net is unique... Smoothed edges so no bacterial growth would be hard to remove. I can't say I've seen something like that because that's got a reinforced design for the outside band/net holder. Where did you buy it? You could ask them. Sign up and ask on various pool forums, too.

 

[Huntn]

Sound the sinister music- Black Algae…

Our pool this morning…
​

A couple of small dark spots appeared in the bottom of the pool about 8 months ago. They would not scrub off with the brushes we use to remove the normal green algae with relative ease. I asked our pool company what was it and got the answer at the beginning of this post. Note, that image is not really my pool, but it could be if you or I were laissez faire about it.

Now these spots are small like 1/16”, some cases barely noticeable other than as a black dot. On the more developed spots it does look like a very small plant. The plan has been to remove them with a metal brush, a couple of swipes remove it, and then rub the sport with the edge of a chlorine tablet, the kind I use in my chlorinated. You can have them the water and they don’t dissolve on you. They take a long time to break down.

So that’s what I do, this morning I removed about 20 of these dots, then scraped them with the chlorine tablet. The reason you need to use the chlorine, is they can put a little root into the pool plaster, so the chlorine kills the root, hopefully. We’ve got it under control, but I can see how this might turn off some people from pool ownership.

If it got bad enough there is an expensive chemical that can be poured into th pool that is supposed to be effective, and the last resort is drain the pool and let the algae die due to air exposure. But then you are talking about a huge water bill to refill it.

Black Algae: What Causes Black Algae In Pool And How To Get Rid Of It – YardMonkPro

yardmonkpro.com

 

[Huntn]

Two recommendations for you.

1) Build or buy a cover frame for your pump and plumbing. It will serve a few purposes for both summer and winter.

2) Don't ever touch those tablets with your bare hands. Dry or wet. There's a reason pool specialists carry disposable or work gloves to handle that stuff.

The way that pool and yard is setup... that has to be a new construction. It's way too clean to even be in its second season and I can't make out any place that's been pressure washed before. Your grass crisscross edging is also far too clean to have been there for a few years.


That said, our pool has been getting heavy use lately. August means warm mornings, and I was taking laps at around 7 AM yesterday as it was still warm outside!

I think this made a significant difference.

 

[Huntn]

Noticed my Legend (auto pool cleaner) was sitting static on the bottom of the pool while it was running. Looks like the backup valve (in the hose line) is no longer working and it’s staying in semi-backup mode. Local dealer wants $100 to replace, which surprised me a little, although ever since COVID, and a Louisiana chlorine plant that burned down several years ago. Everything has gotten on the expensive side. I currently pay double what I originally paid for a 25 pound container of chlorine and 25 pound container of shock, 10 years ago. Used to be both for $150, now they’re both for $300.
Yeah, so for the back up valve, I went online and I actually found one for $65 but it won’t get here for another 10 days, so what I did is remove the old backup valve, connect the line together and I’ll let it run for some period of time during the day when I’m around. The problem with not having a back up valve is that periodically it’ll get stuck in a corner and back up valve, gives it a chance to back out and get unstuck. Anyhoo…

 

[Herdfan]

I currently pay double what I originally paid for a 25 pound container of chlorine and 25 pound container of shock, 10 years ago. Used to be both for $150, now they’re both for $300.

Bite the bullet and put in a chlorine generator. Had we stayed in WV with the pool, that was my next step. Yeah it makes the pool slightly salty but to no longer have to deal with chlorine tablets would have been worth it.

I think all those automatic pool cleaners are junk and I had several of them. What is odd is when we sold our house, the buyers wanted EVERYTHING out. Didn't want paint, woodwork, stain any of it. Wanted the house empty. The also didn't want the pool chemicals or cleaners or any of it. They were going to use a pool service. LOL. They came from FL and didn't realize that we didn't really have pool service companies.

So I sold my 2 year old Aquabot for $500 and gave all the chems to my neighbor.

 

[Huntn]

Bite the bullet and put in a chlorine generator. Had we stayed in WV with the pool, that was my next step. Yeah it makes the pool slightly salty but to no longer have to deal with chlorine tablets would have been worth it.

I think all those automatic pool cleaners are junk and I had several of them. What is odd is when we sold our house, the buyers wanted EVERYTHING out. Didn't want paint, woodwork, stain any of it. Wanted the house empty. The also didn't want the pool chemicals or cleaners or any of it. They were going to use a pool service. LOL. They came from FL and didn't realize that we didn't really have pool service companies.

So I sold my 2 year old Aquabot for $500 and gave all the chems to my neighbor.

Every time I mention a salt system, the pool people bad mouth it. Is that the same thing? I’ll ask.
I swear by my Kreepy Kraully, it save one heck of a lot of work and allows me to not use a pool service.

 

[Herdfan]

Every time I mention a salt system, the pool people bad mouth it. Is that the same thing? I’ll ask.

Yes. It chemically removes the chlorine from sodium chloride, ie salt. Of course they bad mouth them, once you pay for it, you no longer need to buy chems from them. My neighbor had one and he rarely had to even adjust PH. The one thing he did that I would not have is if he though he needed 600lbs of salt for the season, he just dumped it all in at once. So his pool had a slightly salty taste in the early months. Other people I knew who had one would dump 100lbs a month in so it kept the taste down.

But your water makeup might be so they are less effective.

I swear by my Kreepy Kraully, it save one heck of a lot of work and allows me to not use a pool service.

Had one, but it was on it's last legs when we bought the house.

 

[Huntn]

Yes. It chemically removes the chlorine from sodium chloride, ie salt. Of course they bad mouth them, once you pay for it, you no longer need to buy chems from them. My neighbor had one and he rarely had to even adjust PH. The one thing he did that I would not have is if he though he needed 600lbs of salt for the season, he just dumped it all in at once. So his pool had a slightly salty taste in the early months. Other people I knew who had one would dump 100lbs a month in so it kept the taste down.

But your water makeup might be so they are less effective.



Had one, but it was on it's last legs when we bought the house.

The pool people claim a salt system will take a toll on your poolscape flagstone... 🤔

 

[Herdfan]

The pool people claim a salt system will take a toll on your poolscape flagstone... 🤔

Never thought about that, but my driveway was pitted in three places, at the entrance where the snowplow pushed salty snow and the two places where the cars parked and dripped salty sludge on the driveway.

So yeah, that could be an issue.