SWITCHERS ONLY: What might we NOT like about switching?

[r0k]

For a while I used pathfinder more than the built in finder. It was my "crutch" going from Windows to OS X.

BTW, if you click an item in a long finder list, then hold shift and click an item near the bottom, everything in between gets selected.

I absolutely hated the start menu because the IT knuckleheads at our office had it so badly messed up, it would often take 90 seconds to load the list of programs after I clicked on it. What I like on OS X that beats windows with a stick is Spotlight. You click the magnifying glass and type the first few characters of a command and it is already highlighted and if you hit enter it opens. The closest thing to this on windows was freeware called "launchy" that ran like an old slow mangy dog.

Of course there's (rare) times Spotlight gets slow. It happened earlier this evening. I got tired of force closing things so I just rebooted and now all is well. Another annoyance is that darned time machine that spins whenever I want to do some work. I've put it on a strict schedule (using time machine editor.app) and it only runs at 2 in the morning while I'm asleep and 2 in the afternoon while I'm gone to work.

I sometimes get tired of missing a "cut" function in finder. I still kind of miss explorer for dealing with files but I don't miss the slow response and lack of a credible quick view. BTW, after spotlight, quick view has to be the second best feature of OS X. Rapid, and I do mean rapid previews of almost every type of file in existence. Very nice. Next is preview. I know, it sounds like quick view but preview is actually like adobe acrobat reader for OSX (but it does a lot more and handles more than just pdf files). Don't dirty up your Mac with adobe reader when you have preview. Preview can mark up pdf files, move pages from one pdf to another. Very nice and it came free with the os.

I have mixed feelings about iTunes and iPhoto. They have their good points but they both can get very slow at times. Whatever you do, don't let iTunes or iPhoto copy files to their respective libraries unless you want to create monster files. At one time my iPhoto library was 67 gig. Now it's a somewhat more manageable 5 gig but it contains metadata (faces and places and etc) for about 100 gigs of photos.

Don't depend solely on Time Machine. Manually copy stuff you care about to another location such as dropbox or mobile me.

One thing that's a bit annoying is the single button mouse (even if it's smart enough to respond to right clicks). Don't bother with Apple mice. They are nice but I could never quite get used to them. I have logitech V470 bluetooth mice on my windows box at work and my Macbook at home.

Customization? Skins? There are some settings in system preferences and there are a lot of third party programs for things like reskinning the dock. I've decide all that stuff is a distraction. OS X isn't perfect but it works well as designed by Apple and I no longer feel the need to re-skin it. That's a windows habit that died hard. I could make my Linux and Windows boxes look like OS X but not vice versa. But you know what? That's where the similarity would end. OS X is so much nicer I have no desire to make it look like one of those other OS.

Add/Remove programs? That's what the trash basket is for. Simply drag something.app from Applications to the trash and it's (mostly) gone. There will sometimes be a few plist files left lying around but I don't think it's nearly as bad a mess as the windows registry.

Maximizing is one of my least favorite things about windows. The last time I wanted to do one thing at a time was when I was running DOS 6.22.

I never close windows to quit apps any more. I've gotten used to going to firefox->quit firefox rather than leaving bits of the program running in memory.

@toxic: How is a journaling filesystem like HFS+ prone to corruption? To me, it's every bit as good as EXT3 or NTFS and all 3 are better than FAT 32. I immediately reformat any external drives to HFS (journaled) before using them for the first time. I leave usb sticks alone as fat32 is good enough for them and I want to be able to view stuff on both windows and OS X on usb sticks.

 

[Sounds Good]

Can't just hit Delete? Can't move up a level in the directory structure? Yikes.

Ya know what? These may all be little things individually, but collectively as a whole I think they'd drive me nuts.

I'm still on Vista... maybe going to Windows 7 might be the smarter move in my particular case.

Thanks for your help everyone, I sincerely appreciate your input.

Gotta do some serious thinking about this...

 

[Nameci]

I have switched to OSX 4 years ago... and never went back to Windows as my personal computer operating system.

What I don't like after switching is that I did not have the appetite anymore to play games. It did make me more productive.

 

[r0k]

Can't just hit Delete? Can't move up a level in the directory structure? Yikes.

Ya know what? These may all be little things individually, but collectively as a whole I think they'd drive me nuts.

I'm still on Vista... maybe going to Windows 7 might be the smarter move in my particular case.

Thanks for your help everyone, I sincerely appreciate your input.

Gotta do some serious thinking about this...

The delete thing bothers me a bit. What do you mean you can't move up? You mean with backspace? There is a preference in finder to show entire path so I never have trouble navigating up folder structure. If you are used to Vista and leaning toward 7, perhaps OS X isn't for you.

It's really not about how I delete things, nor is it about the pretty colors. It's about how much of my time I have to spend futzing with stuff like broken drivers, missing printers, yada yada yada.

I will admit I wasted a few hours this week chasing a Time Machine issue but that's about all the futzing I've had to do since about November. I'm willing to deal with the limitations and quirks of OS X because OS X doesn't waste my time. And it wasn't something I had to do in order to send my taxes or print out show tickets. I did it when I felt like I had the time, unlike so many windows problems that crop up on the way to an important meeting. I haven't seen an "are you sure" on my Mac since I got it. To me sometimes it seems like Windows was written to harvest clicks while OS X was written to avoid unnecessary user intervention.

Sure there are some quirks. Like the way copied folders are replaced, not merged with destination folders. Like the missing "cut" and "delete" features. But for me these quirks are no big deal and I look forward to sitting down in front of my Mac after suffering with 7 all day at work. But what we say in this thread isn't necessarily relevant to your situation. Based on what we have described, you can get a sense as to how "different" OS X is. To me, it's really not that much different. What is more important is how different it is to you and whether it bothers you.

 

[moogleii]

Actually....

Can't just hit Delete? Can't move up a level in the directory structure? Yikes.

Ya know what? These may all be little things individually, but collectively as a whole I think they'd drive me nuts.

I'm still on Vista... maybe going to Windows 7 might be the smarter move in my particular case.

Thanks for your help everyone, I sincerely appreciate your input.

Gotta do some serious thinking about this...

You can delete from the keyboard. Command+delete. I prefer it because an accidental delete press won't throw up a prompt that you have to answer if you weren't meaning to delete anything (the little things as you say). On windows, I never delete anything unless I'm sure, so I shift-delete everything anyway (been doing that for years and still no regrets!).

Note, there are two delete keys on a mac keyboard, which is what is probably confusing thatsallfolks.

Also, if you enable "show path bar" in Finder, you can see the entire path you're in, and easily jump around.

It was weird at first, but now I actually prefer having an application's menu separate from the application's windows. You can close all of an applications windows, and now close the app. Sounds kind of pointless, but sometimes I'll accidentally close all the windows of an application under Windows, which is basically a full quit of the app, so now I have to relaunch the app, which is not always a trivial amount of time. Also weird at first was the reversal of the ctrl key with osx's cmd key, but I prefer it now too because doing crazy key combinations is much easier with the thumb than with the pinky.

The biggest gripe I have is the inability to cut and paste. I've gotten used to it, but if it's a huge deal, there's an app that mods Finder I believe that will add a cut operation. I also prefer using keyboard shortcuts whenever possible, and Windows seems to be better in that respect, although I'm always learning about new keyboard shortcuts in OSX.

For what it's worth, I've been a PC user for the past 17 years. I grudgingly bought a mac a few years ago in order to mess around with Xcode. It took about 1 month to become fully used to the differences between osx and windows, but after that, I solely used the Mac for quite some time.

I eventually upgraded my pc to windows 7, and now I spend about 50% on each. Windows 7 is pretty nice, but it still feels a bit less organized than OS X (just look at Win7's control panel, yeesh; I end up just using the run command or ctrl-fing).

Btw, OSX upgrades have traditionally been very cheap. I upgraded from Leopard to Snow Leopard for $25.

 

[chrono1081]

Actually, I do think this would bug me. I love that I have all of my most used programs (Word, Excel, Photoshop, Lightroom, Notepad, etc, plus one particular folder) right there for easy access with 1 click of the Start button -- yet hidden away completely out of sight (until I click on Start). I also love having quick access to my "Recent Items" list, to quickly open a file I was recently working on.

How are the above 2 things done on a Mac?


eek... I use "alt-tab" and "copy & paste" A LOT!

Doesn't Mac have these things too?

For the applications, they are all right at your fingertips at the dock or if you want them hidden and want to access them at an instant you can put them in a stack. Think of a stack like the windows start menu, but faster (and it doesn't have to be programs it can be anything).

As for alt+tab and copy and paste people are making it out to be an issue and its not. Use command + tab instead of alt tab, and command + c for copy, and command + v for paste. Its different at first but then you get use to it. I now like command better than control since command is next to the spacebar and is easier to reach.

Also, its perfectly easy to go up file structure levels in Finder, just customize your tool bar (see image)

Anyway I switched from Windows to Mac 3 years ago (because Vista pre service pack 1 couldn't handle large file transfers) and haven't looked back. It was the best move I made (and I fix Windows desktops and servers for a living). Now I can't stand using Windows anymore. I'm much more productive on a Mac.

 

[alfonsog]

I "switched" in 2001, just barely touched os 9 because it was on there too, but I had os X 10.1 preinstalled.
I used a cpm machine and wordstar 1.0 with a daisy wheel printer for my senior year term paper (1991.) Heavy into DOS and windows 3.xx. Used OS/2 for a long time. Eventually was forced into XP in 2001 and hated it (crashing, internet slow, viruses). I used music notation programs and decided to get an ibook G3 to try on my birthday (October) and then got the iMac G4 (the cool looking one) Jan '02 and never touched vista or 7 and from what I have seen they aren't much better than xp.

The commands take a tiny bit of learning but everything is there somewhere. I was just so happy that to close a program was command-Q(uit) instead of Alt-F4 (why that??)

You can delete, use command-delete; you can move up by command-clicking on the current directory in the title bar (no need to worry what .. or . means unless in terminal); no need to really know where anything is anyway cause spotlight works so well; NO REGISTRY; also for common apps I just have them all startup on bootup and set them up in different spaces depending on type and I don't really close apps and I rarely shut-down anyway so everything is running and on windows it would all come to a grinding halt and crash miserably (at least it used to, not sure now). Also get a SSD machine or aftermarket install one like I did. Also look at my sig, my computer is 5 years old and is still a beast, yes it was $$ but its still perfectly fast and my mom was still using my iBook G3 from 2001 until I just bought her a mini last november.

 

[Young Spade]

I just switched Friday afternoon so some of these things still aggrivate me a little lol.
I can't maximize a screen without dragging the one corner that lets me resize. This irritated me at first but now I don't mind having a moderate sized box, it allows me to see my wallpaper Plus with spaces, I never really need to fill up my screen with windows.

The whole folder/file tree thing in Finder is a little... simple? And it's going to take some getting used to for me. Also the whole not being able to simply cut and paste a file bothers me as well. I love organization and not being able to just cut and move something is a little iffy... unless there is a simple way and I just don't know how...

The keyboard commands will allow you do do a lot of things faster so I would highly suggest you learn them as quick as you can. Right now I'm pretty fluent with them and I'm doing a lot more in a shorter amount of time than I could do with a PC.

 

[toxic]

forgot to add that the "+" (maximize) button is wildly inconsistent in its function.

maximizing to full screen in general isn't the way OS X "works", which is why most programs don't do that...but it seems Apple never really decided what the maximize button is supposed to do.

What if I just want my top 10 favorites? In Windows I just drag the icon (of whatever I want) to the Start button, then drop it into the list of my favorites (I'm not sure of the actual term for this). Can this be done on a Mac?

Since I open the same 10 or 12 programs or folders or files many times throughout the day, every day, this is pretty important to me. It would absolutely mess up my work flow to lose this feature.

that's what the dock is for... you put your most common applications in the dock, everything else is in the Applications folder, accessible from the dock.

I'm was a complete Mac virgin when I switched a couple of months ago but some of the small things that still annoy me.

1. Pressing delete when you've selected a file in finder doesn't delete the file. You've gotta use the context menu or <gasp> actually drag it to the garbage.

cmd + delete

3. There's no ".." button in finder(i.e. go one level up a directory structure)

cmd + up

4. Not having an actual uninstall program procedure kind of makes me paranoid.

all necessary files are contained in the application package, any files that go somewhere else are just saves or preferences. the exception is for certain programs, like Adobe ones, where the developer is too lazy to rewrite their code so that all the necessary components are in one place.

 

[dgbowers]

What if I just want my top 10 favorites? In Windows I just drag the icon (of whatever I want) to the Start button, then drop it into the list of my favorites (I'm not sure of the actual term for this). Can this be done on a Mac?

Since I open the same 10 or 12 programs or folders or files many times throughout the day, every day, this is pretty important to me. It would absolutely mess up my work flow to lose this feature.

You can drag pretty much any folder down to the Dock, and you can make Aliases (Shortcuts) of any application you want, then put them in a folder on the Dock.

Check my screenshot for what I mean.

Do keep in mind that you can just drag the apps to the Dock and keep them there, I hardly ever go into my Applications folder, because all of the things I use every day are in the Dock.

 

[dgbowers]

Can't just hit Delete? Can't move up a level in the directory structure? Yikes.

Ya know what? These may all be little things individually, but collectively as a whole I think they'd drive me nuts.

I'm still on Vista... maybe going to Windows 7 might be the smarter move in my particular case.

Thanks for your help everyone, I sincerely appreciate your input.

Gotta do some serious thinking about this...

As far as the whole delete thing, just do CMD+Delete, and BAM! it goes straight in the trashcan. Also, CMD+SHIFT+Delete empties the trashcan.

Also the columns view in finder is the only view i ever use, it shows you all of the levels of the directory structure.

 

[TalkAboutApple]

I switched for a couple years...and then switched back, into Windows 7.

OSX seems really long in the tooth, other than time machine I can't think of clear advantages. The strange thing is that I find the UI lacking. I found I spent tons of time trying to manipulate the edges of windows for resizing, accidentally clicking on the desktop while in an application, etc.

I'd like to see some real innovation on the desktop, I know they can do it but it doesn't seem a priority.

 

[frogger2020]

The thing that bugs me the most is that Windows Explorer is so much better than Finder.

 

[somemacuser]

Its not that bad

Was a MSFT user since DOS. Switched about 2.5 years ago. I'd concur with the few gripes already listed in here that are a bit of a change for windows users - my favorites (quitting applications isnt alt-f4 anymore, cmd-tab doesnt cycle windows, not being able to launch multiple occurrences of an application, giving up the ability to repair my imac myself, and the lack of a PC-like "delete" key instead of the backspace delete that's on the wireless keyboard - WTF!).

However, for the few things that were a change for me, I discover new stuff seemingly every week that makes me smile at the thoughtfulness that has been put into the Mac/OSX. Hard to list them all, but the sum of them makes the whole experience SO well done. A few weeks after getting the Mac I was ticked I waited so long to cut over. It was a non issue. I didnt make the leap until I was satisfied parallels would still be a viable option to run XP. It works great, but I never use it other than to show people a mac can run windows. OSX is so stable, smooth (scrolling, transitions, etc.), beautiful hardware, and elegant to work in I had no desire to go back. I am well aware that Windows 7 has come a long way, but its *still* not as thoughtfully designed.

As has been said many times on this site, ultimately, you can accomplish the same stuff on a PC, but its not as pleasant or easy to get there. As I get older and have less free time in my life with family/career, I appreciate just getting what I want out of the computer and not tinkering. I've done a 180 from my earlier days of taking some pleasure in reformatting a pc and reinstalling windows clean. Now my time spent fiddling is learning cool stuff in aperture and imovie. And I am constantly amazed at the quality of the output vs. the time invested.

Its hard not to be a raving fan of a tool that is that is so enjoyable to use, gives pleasure when you just look at the damn thing, and gives a meaningful return on time spent "learning" it. But my needs may be different than yours. 15 years ago I pounded code for a living and scoffed at apple stuff. Today my way of making a living and my priorities in life are very different. The mac is the right choice for me even if I cant close an application in one click from the corner.

 

[alust2013]

What if I just want my top 10 favorites? In Windows I just drag the icon (of whatever I want) to the Start button, then drop it into the list of my favorites (I'm not sure of the actual term for this). Can this be done on a Mac?

Since I open the same 10 or 12 programs or folders or files many times throughout the day, every day, this is pretty important to me. It would absolutely mess up my work flow to lose this feature.

The dock is wonderful for that, and it can be auto hidden, somewhat like the taskbar in windows, but it works more naturally. You just mouse down, click your app and go. Expose and spaces are also brilliant features of the OS, that don't have exact equivalents in windows. I do have to say though, that win7 is actually pretty darn nice. I have it as a dual boot on my computer for games and miscellaneous stuff, and I could use it as my primary OS if I needed/wanted to. I'd sure miss my trackpad though...I haven't found a windows laptop that can touch it.

As for above post, the forward delete can be done via fn-delete, which comes in handy. I have the wired version so I do happen to have the dedicated key.

 

[J&JPolangin]

...as a daily switcher/user of winXP pro (work), win7 and OSX (both machines I have at home) = I like win7 and OSX but depending on what machine I'm on I want to do something the other one can when I'm not on that OS at the time = really the only problem I have...

 

[jasonph]

Re. Switching.

The biggest thing I miss is the ALT + <somekey> to open a menu keyboard shortcut.

What I don't miss. Windows (inc 7) is slower on the same hardware than OS X. It also thrashes the hard drive with its virtual memory use in comparison to OS X and some of it's file handling is laughable. Even XP was better than Win7. I run all sorts of PC's but you really need a lot of memory, a quad core CPU and a very fast drive for win 7 to give of it's best. Not so with Mac OS X, almost any of the Intel Mac's are fine for most jobs (with the exception of Final Cut Pro maybe!).

Also Stability wise OS X is much more stable than Windows and Apps rarely crash (with the exception of MS Office when it was first released!).

As with all things Microsoft they take an idea and turn it into bloatware! Almost every MS app I have used feels bloated even Office on the Mac

 

[ZilogZ80]

Most of these "problems" are down to people not knowing how to operate their Macs. I would recommend to any new switcher (& a lot of the people who have posted in this thread!) get a good book ("The Missing Manual" is great) which explains everything you need to know.

 

[legreve]

One thing that got me was that you cannot make apps fill the screen without dragging and resizing. You can only resize from the bottom right corner. No real other annoyances for me that I can think of.

That is being dealt with in Lion... you'll be able to resize on all edges.

I was in the same situation as you OP until some 4-5 years ago, when I was introduced to mac through work. I was stubborn and went through the whole "pc is equal to mac and cheaper" rubbish
But this also colors me in relations to noticing bad things about OSX.

I agree with the window resizing thing. But since that's taken care off... well.

To be honest I think you need to consider the positive sides as well. Things like not having a visible program folder with all sorts of nice files to click on. It's basically just an icon on a mac (though one that you can explore to reveal the contents).

Another thing... I never fully understood why I had to be bothered with the way a pc starts up. First the loading screen with hardware checks and what not. Then the black screen, then the windows loading screen and if one had it enabled, the login screen, and then the whole preparing of the desktop area to start up services and so on.

Compared to OSX, that is just too much and not being a programmer etc. I couldn't care less with all that initial info the boot screens on a pc gives me.

What you wont like about switching is the extremely closed univers of Apple. You sync items to a specific computer instead of having a free roaming device that can sync anywhere. Crist it's easier to copy files from my work iMac to my HTC phone than to my mates iPhone... ??!!

One thing to add with Apple universe is that I think they are working their way towards an even tighter app store. In the future I could easily see something similar to that Sky idea where you don't own the app but a license to access the online contents :S I think that will take longer to catch on in the pc universe.

Regarding browsers... I work with FF all day. But at home I was used to Explorer 8. I really like Explorer better than FF. Can't explain why, I just feel FF is heavier now to use than IE is. Also it seems like either FF or OSX requires more addons to use the same websites and services than IE on my pc does.

Folders... I'm so used to the whole disk drive with subfolders, fx. E: and then a folder for every little thing I've got.
The OSX system while probably the same, feels different. Best explained by:

OSX: 2-3 cabinets with several drawers and in the drawers are subfolders.

Windows: 1 cabinet, 1 drawer, lots of subfolders. (unless one partitions ones drive )

But all in all, I'm really really happy that I switched. My new MBP feels stable, OSX looks nice (I even geeked out and changed the looks on my folders etc ), and it allows me to concentrate on what is important, and that is not tweaking (I'm not 15-18 anymore), it's getting work done and get it done smoothely.

In general its only about adjusting to a new setting.

 

[Shivetya]

Things you might find odd.

Very closed environment, limited games unless you bootcamp Windows. By closed I mean, really its not like you can bop down to any store and find software for your Mac (and no, the App store does not cut it).

No Mac product offers true customization like a PC. You get whats in the box and your stuck with it, unless of course you spend the money on a Mac Pro but even then it has many restrictions in what will work and won't. Think Linux with even less choice but at least when your given the choice that item will work.

Apps do not have a menu bar as part of their window. It always is at the top of the screen. This can be annoying at times for those used to positioning applications windows in specific parts of the screen because if need access to that apps menu and don't need the short cut you have to move the mouse to the top of the screen again. Probably the #1 interface dislike I have with OS X.

Apple mice, I know its not an OS thing, but the first thing any self respecting person does is buy a real mouse with the correct number of buttons.

The beach ball.

 

[Sounds Good]

Okay... thanks, guys. To be honest, it looks like there are more differences than I thought there would be -- so I'm glad I asked.

Like I said, I've got some thinkin' to do.

 

[spacemanspifff]

Mac vs Windows

Once you start using it, you'll find that the Mac OS is a much more intuitive system, but you may have to unlearn the ways of the windows. With the Mac, the desktop paradigm is fully realised - so if you want to move something from one place to another, you do it just as you would in the real world, by picking it up and dropping it where you want it. Don't worry about opening the destination first, as the finder will automatically open windows for you.

If you want keyboard shortcuts on the Mac, go into System Preferences and select keyboard, then you can add/change as many as you like. To change the defaults - just double click on the existing one.

You can use smart folders on the Mac which basically perform a live search and update their contents automatically - this allows you to make a folder which contains any combination of files/folders/apps for any amount of time.

Also, as pointed out by others here, Shift select is the same as Windows and if you do Cmd select, you can select the first two files, miss out the next one then select three more etc.

Hope this helps, my advice is make the jump, you will not regret it.

 

[Sounds Good]

Good stuff, Spaceman, very helpful.

Question: where can I go online to learn about some of these "more advanced" things? Not just the basic "Why a Mac?" videos, but the good stuff.

 

[balamw]

I am not a "switcher" per se, but I did spend 15 years using Microsoft OSes as my main OS from DOS all the way to Windows Vista. A lot of that time spent as a Windows evangelist. Today, all my Macs also run XP (for the 2006 iMac) or W7 for the newer boxes and I also own a Windows Home Server and a generic W7 desktop (though I specced it so it can run OS X via Kakewalk trivially should I ever want it to).

OS X generally strikes a better balance for me than Windows. The default settings are good enough. I don't have a laundry list of things I have to tweak on a new system as I do on Windows. (Like making file extensions visible in Explorer).

I came back to the Mac near the end of the PPC era. Vista was a miserable transition for me. My first upgrade went terribly and when I got it installed performance was atrocious. SP1 made that better. The fairly radical changes from XP about where settings were to be located, etc... also drove me to consider alternatives. If I have to learn all this stuff again, why don't I learn it on a Mac?

Watching long term XP users when they first look at Vista or W7, I often see that same look of bewilderment as they have when they look at a Mac for the first time. Even though there is a lot that is the same, there is so much that seems fundamentally different.

After years of custom building, tweaking and maintaining my computers, I finally had enough. I just want to use the darned thing, and Macs offer a tremendous out of box integrated experience. For me, iTunes was the gateway drug. When I finally gave in to letting iTunes be iTunes on my Windows box and let it manage my music, I realized how simple it could be. This led me to my first iPod and then to the iBook.

The integrated hardware/software experience is a big part of the appeal of a Mac and all Apple products. You won't get this from a video or a post in a thread like this.

I remember shocking my colleagues at work when we needed an 8 core box and I went to the Apple Store, walked out with a Mac Pro in less than 15 minutes, and had it fully functional with my MATLAB code utilizing all 8 cores in less than half an hour from unboxing. By that point our usual Dells would still be over in IT getting updates, tweaks, etc..

I've replied to several of your threads, and have a request of you which I think is an important one in these questions.

What do you DO with your Windows box. What applications are important to you? What is your typical workflow?

This is a big one for seeing if a Mac will fit you or not and where you might find the biggest stumbling blocks.

B

 

[Kissaragi]

Theres alway the 14 day return period too if you dont like your mac.