T-Mobile and Apple Announce iPhone Germany Rate Plans

[Zaibatsu]

So I'm living in Germany and was really into getting the iPhone on the 9th November, i even aranged with the 49€ pricetag when it was revealed a few weeks ago.
But now, as they made the conditions even worse (200Mb Traffic limit...), I do think about getting an unlocked iPhone from the U.S. or France(you can only buy them from t-mobile here, which includes signing the 2 year contract). But when i think about this again, there is no other carrier offering EDGE in Germany beside T-Mobile. So all the people here talkin about unlocking the iPhone in Germany, either have to turn down the idea of Surfing & Mailing or have to deal with an even slower connection via gprs (which is still slower than the capped 64kbit). The last possibility is not buying the iPhone at all. At least for me, this would be a very sad decision, because I was already getting used to the use-cases, the iPhone would have made possible.

 

[manu chao]

I am sorry, but tax rates are government imposed fees, which neither apple nor T-mobile nor the end-user have any control over. So in order to do a calculation of the true value of a good or service being sold, you have to take tax rates out of the equation. Otherwise, rate plans in Sweden (25% VAT) will seem way worse than plans UK (17.5% VAT), for example.

Taxes are part of the cost of doing business. If the cost of doing business is higher in one country than another than a company either has to charge the consumers more in this country or accept lower margins. If you are analysing a company you might be interested in what their margins are in different markets. But you might as well be interested how much they charge their customers to estimate their potential success on the market.

And to analyse margins, excluding VAT or sales tax will only get you so far as there are a lot of other costs that might differ noticeably between countries. If you look at businesses like Starbucks, their labour costs will vary by several factors between different countries.

 

[manu chao]

8.5 seems about right. Most of California is above 8.5% (state is 8.25 on its own, and counties can add on to that). Remember that it's probably a remark on an average or mode level of sales tax.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world

If you doubt that figure, argue with the people over at Wikipedia.

 

[Data]

Redicilus fees

I'd love an iphone but getting only 40 sms's en 100 minutes for49 Euro is just redicilus and way to expensive. Unlocked phone without the Data and voice mail options is the only affordable way to go for a reguler person like me that uses sms very much, i now have a 300 sms and 120 minutes voor 25 Euro a month, thats al i need from my phone basicly.
If they would only offer some more variety in the possible packeges if it comes to sms i would be much happier.
Unlocking is the way to go, and it's not the consumers fault , this is just redicilus .

 

[Miguel Louren]

Apples and Oranges

Personally I´d love an iPhone. However if it ever comes to Norway and has prices resembling anything like Germany I´ll happily stick with my current none iPhone. Those prices are insane. The phone isn´t even 3G. Apple in this instance is being VERY greedy.

Hi there, Just though I'd say I totally agree, the first time I saw the contract costs here in the UK I went mad! But then again, you need to remember that:

1. Its not Apple who are setting the contract costs, its the carriers &
2. The addition of the unlimited data feeds are included in the price... I am currently using Vodafone... when I asked them if I could connect to use their service, it took them almost 5 weeks to set it up on my phone... and I have a Razor! it should be on there already but apparently it has to be set up!?!

Anyway... once I had it, I got a letter detailing all the costs... it would cost me £1.50 per MB downloaded or £1 Per day (unlimited downloads) if I use pre pay... ie: £30 additional costs per month!

All that said, I'm a little happier with the O2 contract costs knowing data is included. More so that it wont take me another 5 weeks to wait for activation... (and I never used it in the end! - too expensive)

Now, dont you think that IF apple has anything to do with the contract costs it would have been to ensure data is included? So who's the bad guy? Apple or the Network providers?

The only think I am not 'that' happy with, are the inclusive minutes and texts...

Lets face it... if anyone kills the iphone, it will be the greedy network providers, NOT apple...

ML

 

[sachxn]

Great Plan

Its good. At present I am in Germany for next 8 months. I was eagarly waiting for this. Now is the time to buy iPhone here.

Sachin
Automation Tool

 

[uaaerospace]

8.5 seems about right. Most of California is above 8.5% (state is 8.25 on its own, and counties can add on to that). Remember that it's probably a remark on an average or mode level of sales tax.

Agreed. It is 9.25% in most of TN, and 9.75% in my hometown. Keep in mind there is no state income tax. It's 9% where I am in Alabama.

 

[jamthehut]

Shoot. I am in the States until friday when I go back to Berlin. I wonder if it is worth me buying the iphone here, and tinkering to unlock it(i am a solderer so it shouldnt be so difficult for me) to get my simyo card to work in it. Those tmobile prices are just completely ridiculous if you live from paycheck to paycheck like most europeans, only refilling your phone with credit when you have the budget to do so. I charge up about 20-30 euros a month and get great sms rates, which I use much more than calling, and I want something I can use at wifi hotspots...

 

[Romano]

Let´s hope Apple or better the iPhone isn´t going to be the next Walmart in Germany

Walmart Germany failed:
Clearly dominating the US retail market, Wal-Mart expanded into Germany (and Europe)
in late 1997. Wal-Mart’s attempt to apply the company’s proven US success formula
in an unmodified manner to the German market, however, turned out to be nothing
short of a fiasco. Upon closer inspection, the circumstances of the company’s failure to
establish itself in Germany give reason to believe that it pursued a fundamentally
flawed internationalization strategy due to an incredible degree of ignorance of the
specific features of the extremely competitive German (retail) market. Moreover, instead
of attracting consumers with an innovative approach to retailing, as it has done in the
USA, in Germany the company does not seem to be able to offer customers any compelling
value proposition in comparison with its local competitors. 2006, Walmart pulled out of Germany.

 

[Bye Bye Baby]

The Apple has fallen

Apple is Apple's own worst enemy!

Forcing people to pay huge prices for such products, locking them into contracts, it's no wonder that people buy phones to unlock them. I would do the same!

 

[Bye Bye Baby]

What a lot of naive rubbish

Hi there, Just though I'd say I totally agree, the first time I saw the contract costs here in the UK I went mad! But then again, you need to remember that:

1. Its not Apple who are setting the contract costs, its the carriers &

Now, dont you think that IF apple has anything to do with the contract costs it would have been to ensure data is included? So who's the bad guy? Apple or the Network providers?

Lets face it... if anyone kills the iphone, it will be the greedy network providers, NOT apple...

ML

What an unbelievable thing to write. It took Apple months to get deals with carriers, work out pricing and most importantly to secure revenues and magically Apple doesn't have a say.

Wake up people Apple has gone greedy over this one. Great product that is being hampered by corporate greed!

 

[aliquis-]

Damn that's expensive, 3G 3.6/7.2mpbs wireless data here in Sweden is 99 sek or around 11 euro or so. I don't know what a decent price for 100 minutes + free data would be but such prices puts it at only "high consumers" reach.

 

[Laglorden]

Well, those prices are about 15-20 times per month more expensive than the "normal" prices here in Sweden at least and then you're "tied up" to it for two years...

If you "fall" for this I think you are going to feel quite stupid in a couple of months when Apple introduces lowers the prices (they GOT to, this CAN'T be a huge hit at those prices... consumers can't be that stupid... no the 1 million phones sold in the US must be a fluke... *tries to persuade myself*) or in one year when the next iPhone comes out.

"Nerd-tax" indeed

 

[sasza]

Insane

I live in Finland, my operator (Elisa-Vodafone) charges €0,069/min and sms €0,059/sms, monthly fee is 1€. Let's look at the numbers: I call (let's say) 200 minutes so it makes €13,80 + €8,85 for 150 sms messages. It makes €22,65, BUT I'wont call 200 min every month, sometimes it's more or less. Comparing to Complete L (€69) rate it's just insanely expensive! The only good rate for iPhone is Complete XL, but it's just expensive too, I mean 89€ every month it's not cheap.
Of course you have to pay for iPhone too - 400€ as I guess PLUS monthly charge...
Here in Finland I can get Nokia N95 for 25€/month with minutes and 2 years contract, but I don't have to pay for the phone itself.
And one more thing ;-) 2 years is a long long period, who knows what phones will be available within a year and you will be locked to your iPhone and expensive contract. Let's see.

 

[snowe]

I live in Finland, my operator (Elisa-Vodafone) charges €0,069/min and sms €0,059/sms, monthly fee is 1€. Let's look at the numbers: I call (let's say) 200 minutes so it makes €13,80 + €8,85 for 150 sms messages. It makes €22,65, BUT I'wont call 200 min every month, sometimes it's more or less. Comparing to Complete L (€69) rate it's just insanely expensive! The only good rate for iPhone is Complete XL, but it's just expensive too, I mean 89€ every month it's not cheap.
Of course you have to pay for iPhone too - 400€ as I guess PLUS monthly charge...
Here in Finland I can get Nokia N95 for 25€/month with minutes and 2 years contract, but I don't have to pay for the phone itself.
And one more thing ;-) 2 years is a long long period, who knows what phones will be available within a year and you will be locked to your iPhone and expensive contract. Let's see.

You didn't count the unlimited data. Unlimited 3G data would be something between 9 to 19 euro per month depending of the operator. And the hotspots.. I dont give any value for the hotspots as the network is way too sparse in the country size like german. But who needs the wlan anyway if you got unlimited data?

Yes, those german rates are terrible. Hoping that rates in scandinavia would be cheaper. With those rates no-one in scandinavia would by the iPhone.

 

[swagi]

It is actually a mixed bag - and I think Apple's insisting on free unlimited data in each plan is to blame for these prices.

Data and WLAN access charges with T-Mobile are extremely expensive in Germany, no matter if ad hoc or with volume subscriptions. Apple forcing them to provide that "unlimited" caused skimping on included minutes and horrendous per minute rates when exceeding the allocation. 39 Cents per minute is a joke - you can get prepaid cards (no minimum, no fees) with charges as low as 14 Cents/min.

So - for people using data services a lot (and initiating only a few calls) it is a good deal, even a very good deal. EDGE coverage with T-Mobile is great, they have more hot spots than anybody else etc. For people reading one or two emails on the go per week - it is completely unsuitable. For most teens (tons of SMS and hours of talking, even when dialling the wrong number) - it will be financial suicide. So - bottom line, the plan is mainly favouring business users. These may have to wait weeks, months or years before network admins add support for the iPhone on the corporate network.

I think they miss out on a lot of potential buyers here - half the German population might be in Paris in early November

Completely agree! Especially the Paris part is interesting. I wonder what T-mobile will do, and especially what Apple will do, to keep these unlocked French iPhones from the market.

But considering the lack of 3G, which most Apple apologists still don't really give a damn about, I'm perfectly happy with my Nokia E65 (which btw can be used as modem and utilizes a WebKit browser, which can also do Flash)!

 

[chr1s60]

I disagree. These rates are good. Think about it... these include VAT which is 19%, and incoming calls and incoming SMSs from anywhere are free, on top of the free Wifi zones!

In the US, we pay through the nose for those for these services. Do the math... let's pick the middle plan at 69 Euros:

1. Remove the cost of wifi zones which in Germany equates to 30 Euros/month, i.e. 69 - 30 = 39 Euros.
2. Let's remove the cost of incoming calls and SMS messages, say another 15 Euros (pulled this out of the air, but to me it seems reasonable) i.e. 39 - 15 = 24 Euros.
3. Remove 19% VAT (cause in the US, the rate plans are advertised without taxes) i.e. 24 Euros * 0.81 = 19.4 Euros. This equates to roughly $25 per month.

Now in the US... $25/month for 200 minutes (incoming and outgoing), 150 SMSs (incoming and outgoing) and unlimited data is not good? iPhone data plan itself is $20/month! So really, $5 you are getting 200 mins of talk time and 150 SMSs.

I am sorry I disagree, but these rates are excellent!!!

How do you figure free WiFi zones are worth 30 Euros??? It isn't free home internet, you have to go somewhere to get the WiFi, so unless you live at a T-Mobile hot spot, I don't think it is worth that much money.

Even with the incoming SMS they still can't send many. Most people I know SEND a minimum of about 800-1,000 texts a month and this does not include the ones they receive. That alone means those plans would lead to about $60 in overage charges for text alone.

As far as incoming calls, we have mobile to mobile that takes off a lot of minutes. Probably not as much as free incoming calls, but it still helps out a lot. Most people I know with an iPhone also talk on their phone for a lot longer than 200 minutes per month, even excluding incoming calls.

I think your cost evaluation is a tad bit off.

 

[elmo151]

how about american at&t visitors

do visitors from at&t get free access to these wifi sites? how about rates for local calling?

 

[photobiker]

America is going down the drain

Let's do the math again. From the consumer side, pre-tax prices are irrelevant, your bank account only sees the after-tax cost (from a company point of view, it is the other way around). Typical sales tax in the U.S., according to Wikipedia, is 8.5%. That will make the $60 plan cost you $65, that includes 450 min. Assuming half of them incoming minutes that roughly compares to the Complete L plan with 200 min for outgoing calls in Germany, which is 69 Euro. Taking the PPP implied by the Big Mac Index of 1.1 this translates into $76.

Correct. It's not because America is lead by cretins and the US dollar is going down the drain that Europeans pay more for their expenses in euros - duh!

In California, the basic iPhone plan costs me $72.70.

In Europe, a similar plan would cost me $76 in Purchasing Power Parity.

The difference is entirely in the tax rates (8.5% in the US and 19.4% in Europe) but now when I look at what the Europeans get for their taxes (free health care, free education, unemployment benefits, retirement - and I'm not even talking about 6 weeks vacation) versus what we Americans get for our dear tax dollars (an endless war, an insatiable military and tax cuts for the rich), I'm tempted to think that the Europeans have quite a sweet deal. Or at least, they sure manage their money better than we do.

 

[Glenny2lappies]

What about roaming charges?

Does anyone know how much the plans cost for roaming?
- incoming calls whilst in, say, France
- outgoing calls, say from France back home to Germany/UK?

I've never been able to find out these charges.

 

[takao]

hm i'm in austria and jsut recently got myself a new contract together with a k750i and it's 5 euro per month, 5 cent in every network and because i'm a student i get _1000_ text messages for free

let's say i will talk 100 minutes a month (which i don't since i can send more messages than i would possible ever want) that would set me back 10 euro per month
that would leave me with more than 40 euro which i could spend on data volume packages

or i could take a plan which costs only 4 euro per month and every call costs 4 cents but don't get a new phone with it

some other provider has free e-mail for mobile phones in a 3.9 euro 3.9 cent/minute plan

for UMTS i heard of some 28 euro tarif with 300 minutes, 0,5 GB traffic, 1000 free text messages, and free TV for your mobile, 6 cents/minute if you exceed your 300 minutes and to make it more interesting: if yomebody else calls you, _you actually get 6 cent/minute_ from the carrier

 

[PabloGS]

Why has nobody mentioned the roaming prices? I bet T-Mobile will want your first-born as part of the deal.

Has anyone uncovered the prices?

What about incoming charges for roaming?

Well Glen, EU laws and regulations limit the maximum price for outgoing roaming calls to 49¢/min (excl. Tax or VAT) and I think 24¢/min for incoming calls when roaming within the EU. This applies to all EU countries.

So for a German roaming in Greece this would be 49*1.19 = 58¢/min as a maximum they could charge, likely they'll charge less.
58¢/min for roaming in the UK, Austria, Portugal, Ireland, ... you get the point

Edit:
Here's a link to the EU-Law and regulation:

http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/newsroom/cf/itemlongdetail.cfm?item_id=3670

 

[Glenny2lappies]

Well Glen, EU laws and regulations limit the maximum price for outgoing roaming calls to 49¢/min (excl. Tax or VAT) and I think 24¢/min for incoming calls when roaming within the EU. This applies to all EU countries.

So for a German roaming in Greece this would be 49*1.19 = 58¢/min as a maximum they could charge, likely they'll charge less.
58¢/min for roaming in the UK, Austria, Portugal, Ireland, ... you get the point

Edit:
Here's a link to the EU-Law and regulation:

http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/newsroom/cf/itemlongdetail.cfm?item_id=3670

Thanks for that - I'd forgotten about this new rule (being an 'island monkey' who roams, but finds it so expensive that I try not to make calls -- and I should read my bill!)

Interesting article on this here:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/25/labour_anti_roaming_cap/

The amazing thing is that this just shows how expensive the T-Mobile/O2 deals are.

 

[h00ligan]

so do we know the 16gb phone is there?

 

[ogee]

Im very disappointed with these plans..... not so much the price but the limit of 200Mb. No point having an internet device if the service provided cripples the service. Needless to say, I will now not be switching to T-mobile.