Target Confirms Apple Pay Rollout Won't Include REDcard

[dontwalkhand]

Before you guys complain, realize it’s the same reason proprietary transit cards aren’t in Apple Pay. An Apple limitation

 

[gbc204]

Well this sucks. If you have a Red Card, then it's still like Apple Pay isn't an option at all I guess. I love Apple Pay, but I'm not paying a 5% tax to use it at Target.

 

[dontwalkhand]

Target Australia is an entirely diffetent company than Target America, even though they look the same.

There was a story about how some company licensed the logo, name,and the dog from US Target.

 

[AngerDanger]

Target in the U.S. has zero affiliation with Target Australia. Two completely different companies, despite having a nearly identical logo. (I just learned about Target Australia today.)

Joe, this is such a mind**** for me right now.

 

[mattster16]

Can't they do something like Walgreens with their loyalty card? It is linked to a log in with user data and is pretty seamless with apple pay. Just tap and it goes first then a second tap to pay. They get loyalty info I get a reward.

Redcard basically just authorizes Target to use an e-check to get payment directly from your checking account. Super super low transaction fees, going through Apple Pay would defeat that purpose.

 

[minimo3]

Exactly. People get seduced by the 5% discount. But Target profits significantly from being able to track and commoditize absolutely every purchase, not only for themselves but presumably that they can also sell to data brokers. Conversely, Apple Pay is designed with the user's privacy in mind. As I understand it, for each transaction a unique payment number is generated and your personal information and credit card number is not shared with the merchant. Great for privacy and especially for security. I don't know if Apple has negotiated with merchants who have store cards to allow them to pass along data in these scenarios. I'm inclined to say they have not, especially in light of Target's stance in this situation.

For all the data they are collecting it’s amazing that the Red card statement just shows each purchase as a single line item. It can’t even show you a category breakdown of your spending like Amex does.

 

[macfacts]

Exactly. People get seduced by the 5% discount. But Target profits significantly from being able to track and commoditize absolutely every purchase, not only for themselves but presumably that they can also sell to data brokers. Conversely, Apple Pay is designed with the user's privacy in mind. As I understand it, for each transaction a unique payment number is generated and your personal information and credit card number is not shared with the merchant. Great for privacy and especially for security. I don't know if Apple has negotiated with merchants who have store cards to allow them to pass along data in these scenarios. I'm inclined to say they have not, especially in light of Target's stance in this situation.

Most people don't even care if their info is in the phone book. When "privacy" concerned users say they don't want their purchases tracked, they look like a crazy privacy nut. So what if they know you like to buy certain items.

 

[street.cory]

Redcard basically just authorizes Target to use an e-check to get payment directly from your checking account. Super super low transaction fees, going through Apple Pay would defeat that purpose.

For the RedCard debit card yes, but for the RedCard credit card that isn't the case. Both of them include the 5% discount though.

 

[lenard]

Since ApplePay assigns a device account number instead of your actual credit card number, Target would have no way to associate a RedCard ApplePay purchase with the card owner.

Easy to solve that, they can just issue a credit card like Costco does and offer cash back rewards.

 

[iLLUMI]

Red Card must be a US Target thing?? I've never heard of it. I'm lucky all my rewards cards are in Apple Wallet so it's very convenient.

In Australia Target uses FlyBuys. As does Kmart and Coles.
It's not possible to add FlyBuys to Apple Wallet at this point in time.

 

[dancefreak]

Exactly. People get seduced by the 5% discount. But Target profits significantly from being able to track and commoditize absolutely every purchase, not only for themselves but presumably that they can also sell to data brokers. Conversely, Apple Pay is designed with the user's privacy in mind. As I understand it, for each transaction a unique payment number is generated and your personal information and credit card number is not shared with the merchant. Great for privacy and especially for security. I don't know if Apple has negotiated with merchants who have store cards to allow them to pass along data in these scenarios. I'm inclined to say they have not, especially in light of Target's stance in this situation.

Target would have the data regardless as they already have a deal with TD Bank (supplier of the red cards). They already connect the details of the purchase with you via the transaction. And the same thing would happen behind the scenes if you used Apple Pay. It's true that Apple isn't providing Target with new information, but if you shop regularly--even if not using a Red Card--Target doesn't need any details from apple as it has already has built a file on you that they're just updating every time you check out.

 

[lederermc]

I think th

Bummer. I was really hoping for this. I don’t think this is about tracking purchases as they could still do that with Apple Pay. I think it has more to do with fees.

I think the Apple Pay fee is VERY small 0.15% compared to the actual Visa card fee of about 3.00%

 

[street.cory]

Since ApplePay assigns a device account number instead of your actual credit card number, Target would have no way to associate a RedCard ApplePay purchase with the card owner.

Walgreen's rewards program can be tied with the purchase regardless of what card you use so I assume they are able to associate the purchase. I assume Target would do the same or make their CartWheel savings program compatible.

You can also earn Kohl's "Yes2You" rewards with purchases made with their store card via Apple Pay.

 

[69Mustang]

Exactly. People get seduced by the 5% discount. But Target profits significantly from being able to track and commoditize absolutely every purchase,

Trying to compare Target's RedCard and Apple's Pay is inherently flawed. I don't have a Red Card, but I'm guessing that purchase data tracking is beneficial to Target and the customer. It helps Target effectively market the right products to the right customers and it allows customers to save money on the items they actually want to purchase. How do you think they're able to offer relevant sales to customers? Cat owner probably has no use for a 2 for 1 offer on turtle food. But 2 for 1 on cat litter + 5% off... yeah they might have use for that. All because they purchased a case of cat food on their last trip to Target. There's no analog to what Target does with their RedCard and Apple Pay.

...not only for themselves but presumably that they can also sell to data brokers.

That implication is pretty low don't you think? I mean, unless you have some evidence. Otherwise it's just slinging mud to further a narrative of Target doing something wrong. Data collection isn't inherently bad. Else, Apple wouldn't be doing too.

Yes. I think what you write is correct. And in the future this is the issue that needs to become more clear. People are giving themselves away to data brokers and having their life stolen by the like of Android. I'm always surprised that people don't consider this when telling me how well their 'google voice' or whatever works and can tell them things and run their life. And maybe people don't care.

It's not correct. It's misapplying specifics in one area as if they're relevant in another. Target's collection of purchasing data has no relation to Apple's policies with Pay. You're also continuing the mud slinging (although I think unintended) line of thought with your add on to the data broker idea. The next guy's probably gonna say Target got caught selling customer data to brokers (just kidding).

But you are right about people not caring so much about Google's data collection. They use it, among other things, to sell ad space. Ad space. Omg amirite! But also to improve the services they offer customers. That's not hot enough. I know, presumably they can sell it to data brokers.


.

 

[wicker21]

Baby steps it seems with all of these CurrentC holdouts. Glad to see they are headed in the right direction. Probably just a matter of time before they support the RedCard. Target's wallet app is actually pretty good and required to get additional discounts via their "Cartwheel" coupons/promotions.

Glad to see support for ApplePay.

 

[RickInHouston]

You pay top dollar for a device but won't shop at a store because it doesn't give 5% back?

This, or something like this. Got it.

 

[ikramerica]

Most likely because of the larger transaction fees charged if the red card is handled via Apple pay.

Yes. Target is passing on the cost of credit cards and dealing with large sums of cash and with gift cards to you by charging about 5% more. The RedCard saves them money.

If they have to give Apple a slice, then it would be a net loss to give 5% off to RedCard users.

 

[ftaok]

Redcard basically just authorizes Target to use an e-check to get payment directly from your checking account. Super super low transaction fees, going through Apple Pay would defeat that purpose.

There's actually two different RedCards. One is a debit card like the one you're describing. The other is a credit card (not affiliated with Visa or MC) that you can carry a balance on.

Neither of these will work with ApplePay.

 

[ikramerica]

Trying to compare Target's RedCard and Apple's Pay is inherently flawed. I don't have a Red Card, but I'm guessing that purchase data tracking is beneficial to Target and the customer. It helps Target effectively market the right products to the right customers and it allows customers to save money on the items they actually want to purchase. How do you think they're able to offer relevant sales to customers? Cat owner probably has no use for a 2 for 1 offer on turtle food. But 2 for 1 on cat litter + 5% off... yeah they might have use for that. All because they purchased a case of cat food on their last trip to Target. There's no analog to what Target does with their RedCard and Apple Pay.

That implication is pretty low don't you think? I mean, unless you have some evidence. Otherwise it's just slinging mud to further a narrative of Target doing something wrong. Data collection isn't inherently bad. Else, Apple wouldn't be doing too.


It's not correct. It's misapplying specifics in one area as if they're relevant in another. Target's collection of purchasing data has no relation to Apple's policies with Pay. You're also continuing the mud slinging (although I think unintended) line of thought with your add on to the data broker idea. The next guy's probably gonna say Target got caught selling customer data to brokers (just kidding).

But you are right about people not caring so much about Google's data collection. They use it, among other things, to sell ad space. Ad space. Omg amirite! But also to improve the services they offer customers. That's not hot enough. I know, presumably they can sell it to data brokers.


.

It’s more than that. Target has new smaller stores. Those stores don’t stock everything. In fact, they are frustrating. Target claims the model is created to stock things your neighborhood buys most.

But, let’s asusme you shop at both kinds of store because the small one is inadequate. We do. Our closest one is a “neighborhood” store and the further one is a redesigned super store. We have to use the bigger one sometimes.

Target can see what you buy at both locations and how often you shop at either, and if enough customers do the same, Target would use that information to stock your neighborhood store with items that customers WOULD buy there if they could.

 

[coolbreeze]

I buy stuff on occasion using my Red debit card just to save the 5%, usually Apple stuff and other never on sale types of things.

They get nothing of value out of my data other than realizing I’m a vulture lol.

 

[kgelner]

Most likely because of the larger transaction fees charged if the red card is handled via Apple pay.

Apple does not charge transaction fees :

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204274

From the FAQ:

Are there additional fees to accept Apple Pay?
No. Apple doesn't charge any additional fees.

 

[69Mustang]

It’s more than that. Target has new smaller stores. Those stores don’t stock everything. In fact, they are frustrating. Target claims the model is created to stock things your neighborhood buys most.

But, let’s asusme you shop at both kinds of store because the small one is inadequate. We do. Our closest one is a “neighborhood” store and the further one is a redesigned super store. We have to use the bigger one sometimes.

Target can see what you buy at both locations and how often you shop at either, and if enough customers do the same, Target would use that information to stock your neighborhood store with items that customers WOULD buy there if they could.

Very true. As I said in my way too long quote, data collection isn't inherently bad. Your example paints a great picture.

 

[rjohnstone]

Since ApplePay assigns a device account number instead of your actual credit card number, Target would have no way to associate a RedCard ApplePay purchase with the card owner.

That's not how Apple Pay works.
Apple Pay doesn't assign account numbers that way. The issuer defines how cards added to Apple Pay are assigned numbers.
Those numbers are associated with your actual card numbers on the issuers side.
If they couldn't associate the number to an account, Apple Pay, and all others for that matter, would not exist as they would have no way to bill you.

 

[maine82]

Can't they do something like Walgreens with their loyalty card? It is linked to a log in with user data and is pretty seamless with apple pay. Just tap and it goes first then a second tap to pay. They get loyalty info I get a reward.

This!

 

[nviz22]

Target in the U.S. has zero affiliation with Target Australia. Two completely different companies, despite having a nearly identical logo. (I just learned about Target Australia today.)

That’s one of the reasons why “Target” disappeared in Canada. They didn’t have the same merchandise quality.