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Target Confirms Apple Pay Rollout Won't Include REDcard
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Keyword being “additional .”
Apple gets a cut of existing fees.
Target might not want to share. They already giving 5% back to customers.
Why not? They are the card issuer, so they would know the device access number (DAN).
I did the math a year or two ago and decided that having a RedCard just wasn't useful to me as opposed to the credit cards I use to rake up frequent flyer points. This just adds to my justification for not needing it.
They obviously have the ability to do scanned barcode payments, and still get all their purchase data they want. What they really need to do is take a Starbucks approach, and allow us to add the RedCard as a barcode card to our Apple Wallet. That way we can still access it quickly through Wallet. It's definitely not as good as actual support for RedCard Apple Pay, but let's be honest, I really don't see that happening, especially since they lose out on all that data.
It's like Kmart in Australia. Which apparently isn't a god awful place
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How did you do your math? what kind of returns are you getting from your CCs thats better than a 5% discount?
As both the retailer and the card issuer of the Redcard there is nothing that would prevent Target from getting any less data than they would if you were just using the Redcard normally without Apple Pay. The retail side knows a transaction amount, what was purchased, and location. The credit side knows the card holder, the purchase amount and the location. It’s pretty easy to marry up who you are and what you bought with that information.
When Cartwheel was separate from the Target app, users could add their Cartwheel barcode to Wallet. When they rolled Cartwheel into the Target app, customers lost that ability.
That would be super nice but the difference between Starbucks and the Cartwheel linked RedCard is the difference between a gift card and debit card. I’m assuming the Apple TOS has something preventing businesses from adding barcodes to Wallet that directly debit an account.
spot on. Read their privacy policy *shocking* I know.
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No because it’s a constantly changing barcode for “security”
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KMart Australia was one and the same at one point. Same with Safeway now Woolworth’s
Boy Target, you are late to party and still striving to keep customers from coming back. Schlock outfit.
Family hasn’t shopped Target or Kroger since Apple Pay launched, been going to Meijer and Costco instead.
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Family hasn’t shopped Target or Kroger since Apple Pay launched, been going to Meijer and Costco instead.
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Costco’s Visa is a good one. Maybe best.
If the ApplyPay transaction never sends any kind of receipt or transaction number for correlation of the actual purchase to the card processor then that is definitely true. The issuing bank would see a Target transaction associated with the RedCard account but then would not be able to trace back to what was purchased. For this reason I can't see RedCard ever being available through ApplePay. The same reason why many loyalty related credit cards are not available. The Toy's R Us card (RIP) was another example.
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I don't believe that's true. ApplePay likely does not transmit anything to the bank regarding the transaction, thus not providing any correlation whatsoever to the actual Target transaction. If that were true, I believe Target would not have reservations to include the card, nor others with their loyalty cards. Since Apple touts high security and privacy when using ApplePay, I have to assume that ApplePay would defeat RedCard tracking.
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Your cellphone provider has all your info, they know where you about, they know who you called. Your bank has your info, they know what you spent on and how much you spend. Your ISP knows what you have been watching and browsing.
Seriously, if you are such paranoid by privacy, you better go offline. The last thing I care is some corporate knows what I have been shearching for. I have so much other things to worry about.
Isn't the fee just 0.15%? I realize 0.15% add up when you are talking about around $70B in annual revenue ($105M paid to Apple, assuming 100% of the transactions were done by Apple Pay). But I don't think the fee is the factor here.
I honestly don't give a crap that Target knows what I buy (and ultimately, what I don't buy) because I usually buy the cheapest version of whatever it is they have, and if they target (haaaa pun) me with coupons, then all the better. I hate to see stuff I regularly buy/use get discontinued. If they look at the data and go "hey, this product is selling pretty well" then I'm cool with this.
It's when I'm browsing and facebook slams me with repeated ads for crap I've googled in the past 2 days, that I get annoyed to see it over and over.
I've yet to have an issue with Target besides the fact that I have to carry the card and I sometimes forget, and their ability to ship things like soap, shampoo, and stuff without it breaking and spilling over my entire purchase, is crap. In the long run, since I bought it with the red card that pulls from my debit, I can put in a request and get my refund quite fast.
For a store charge card where the retailer has access to receipts and charges to the card, it wouldn't take much for a correlation of the location/time/total against the receipts for a store to identify who the person was and what was purchased even if the POS doesn't see the same card number on each transaction.
Obviously, a different case than the EMV or ApplePay where card number should be hidden from the retailer POS and therefore can't correlate multiple purchases against the same card/person.
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You only need store id, time and purchase amount. All of that would need to go to the charge account and then can be correlated against store receipts. Each store and sub locations within a store (Starbucks, CVS Pharmacy, regular cashier) all use the same EMV terminal, but probably have a different merchant id for balancing accounts.
There are probably just more contractual negotiations on-going.
Clearly time and purchase amount are part of the transaction data. If, however, a third value is also present, such as the store id as you mention or a logical terminal id, then I agree the correlation can be made. My hope would be that the third data point is missing for greater privacy.
It’s likely a technical issue that could not be resolved at roll out. It’s usually better to do one integration at a time with so many stores. Walgreen is a perfect example. It took them several years before they integrated their loyalty and discount system into Apple Pay. In fact they quietly moved forward. First they implemented notifications that surfaced the card when you were in the store 1-2 years ago, then allowing the cashier to scan a barcode shown on your phone. In December they finally figured out the holy grail, checking in to loyalty with Apple Pay. I noticed the option to pull up the barcode was gone, but it was asking for my fingerprint as I held my phone near the terminal. It just worked, very very cool, but unexpected. I think this is why they said at this time, since loyalty and discounts involves at least one but sometime multiple 3rd parties and website integration, it was not possible at toll out.
Not entirely true.
A merchant "can" send details of a transaction with the card processing data. The card processor sends the info to the card issuer for billing purposes.
With Target being the merchant and the issuer, capturing this data is pretty simple. I suspect they have to rewrite some of the backend processing to accommodate Apple Pay.
My bet is RedCard will get Apple Pay support. Target would be dumb to miss out on the revenue potential.
The transaction number is an encrypted number between your phone and point of sale. It immediately is deleted once the transaction is made. There is no number for the card issuer to track. This why it is secure.
They did have the red cards at Canadian Targets during their short existence here.
Use the Target app. It has the cards in there and all you do is scan the barcode. Not as convenient as Apple Pay but more convenient than carrying around another physical card
Good news, the Costco Visa is also a contactless card, which is completely tappable at Target.