Target Plans to Offer Apple Pay After Chip-and-PIN Card Upgrade
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Seems like we already got that from your previous post about it:
Chip and PIN "upgrade"? Erm... that's been out FOR YEARS.
Oh, hang on... you're Americans...
uid15
Suspended
Ermm... nope - I mentioned chip and PIN, neither of which are anything to do with a signature.
Slightly different references to seemingly convey a similar condescending message.Ermm... nope - I mentioned chip and PIN, neither of which are anything to do with a signature.
aristobrat
macrumors G5
He's still right -- there is a crap ton of things going on behind the scenes that you don't see, even if the PIN pads themselves don't physically change.
In order to take EMV (Chip and Signature), the software on most PIN pads, POS, and usually the payment gateway have to be updated. This usually means that the retailer has to "re-certify" with whomever processes their electronic transactions. This is a very involved process, running through scripts of every type of transaction, using every type of electronic tender.
I wouldn't be surprised that in order to make the October date (where the retailers themselves become liable for fraudulent transactions if they're unable to take EMV transactions) that some retailers are only focusing on re-certifying the normal transactions for now, and will circle back to the NFC stuff at a later date. Target isn't going to update 40,000 PIN pads and POS at the same time. It's something they're going to roll out over a few months. Same with Home Depot.
So to the guys point, there is a ton of stuff behind the scenes that could result in NFC being turned off -- for legitimate reasons.
uid15
Suspended
You too.
TallManNY
macrumors 601
It is just weird that they say they are "focusing" on Chip and Pin and that keeps them too busy to start accepting Apple Pay. Basically if you have the machinery in place, accepting Apple Pay really shouldn't be so hard. I think you basically just need the NFC terminals. And any terminal they install will have NFC built in. It basically just has to be turned on as far as I can tell.
If Target wants to give customers the full benefits of Apple Pay (mainly not having to sign or enter a PIN regardless of the purchase amount) then they will need to do some development work on their end to make that happen. The others have turned on Apple Pay earlier because they were okay with making people sign/enter a PIN/tell clerks their DAN until they get the rest of the backend infrastructure working.
TallManNY
macrumors 601
I've never signed or entered a PIN using Apple Pay. But I did get rejected for a particularly large purchase. But I don't care if it is a big purchase. I just want to do the little shopping moments quickly and not expose my CC to a basically unsecure but highly visible target.
Hence why I said "regardless of the amount". Most places already don't bother asking if the amount is below a certain amount (which they do even if you swipe a card).
pay stuff yet.. so we still sign.
wilsonlaidlaw
macrumors 6502
USA - why so far behind the curve?
I am always amazed every time I go to the USA to see everyone still swiping cards through readers and sometimes even using the old paper imprinting machines. The rest of the world, even third world countries, went to chip reading years ago, even if sometimes the PIN didn't work, so you had to sign. You would have thought that the country which popularised charge cards in the 1950's (I remember my father with a Diners Club Card in the late 1950's, which he used for business travel expenses in mainland Europe), would have lead the charge to more secure technology. It is sometimes very difficult for a non-US citizen to purchase things like fuel, as the machines want a zip code, which is rather an insular approach. A bit like French fuel pump card machines used to refuse anything other than French cards.
I am always amazed every time I go to the USA to see everyone still swiping cards through readers and sometimes even using the old paper imprinting machines. The rest of the world, even third world countries, went to chip reading years ago, even if sometimes the PIN didn't work, so you had to sign. You would have thought that the country which popularised charge cards in the 1950's (I remember my father with a Diners Club Card in the late 1950's, which he used for business travel expenses in mainland Europe), would have lead the charge to more secure technology. It is sometimes very difficult for a non-US citizen to purchase things like fuel, as the machines want a zip code, which is rather an insular approach. A bit like French fuel pump card machines used to refuse anything other than French cards.
Target Plans to Offer Apple Pay After Chip-and-PIN Card Upgrade
They've had a RedCard Visa since day one.
http://www.target.com/redcard/main
Actually it now looks like there is a "new" option for a Red Card Credit Card that is no longer a Visa Card and can only be used at Target. They seem to have stopped issuing the Visa one that could be used anywhere.
It says:
REDcard
: Target Debit Card, Target Credit Card, and Target Visa Credit Card. Subject to application approval (Target Visa Credit Card not available to new applicants). The REDcard credit cards are issued by TD Bank USA, N.A. The REDcard debit card is issued by Target Corporation. VISA is a registered trademark of VISA USA, Inc. Pat 7,562,048 and 8,117,118.
They've had a RedCard Visa since day one.
http://www.target.com/redcard/main
Actually it now looks like there is a "new" option for a Red Card Credit Card that is no longer a Visa Card and can only be used at Target. They seem to have stopped issuing the Visa one that could be used anywhere.
It says:
REDcard
: Target Debit Card, Target Credit Card, and Target Visa Credit Card. Subject to application approval (Target Visa Credit Card not available to new applicants). The REDcard credit cards are issued by TD Bank USA, N.A. The REDcard debit card is issued by Target Corporation. VISA is a registered trademark of VISA USA, Inc. Pat 7,562,048 and 8,117,118.
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macintologist
macrumors 6502a
Credit cards have consumer protection features that are invaluable. Besides if someone fraudulently used your credit card you are not liable for single dollar. Not to mention the rewards but you can get from using a credit card. Paying with cash you pay the same price.
This last bit isn't always true anymore. In the past year or so, I've run into a small number of businesses which are no longer eating the card processing fees, and are instead adding it to the bill as a 3% surcharge. (Most of the time it's still cheaper than going to an ATM to pull cash, if you don't already have the cash on hand.)
Target Plans to Offer Apple Pay After Chip-and-PIN Card Upgrade
Surcharges are actually against the Terms and Conditions the merchants agree to with the card networks. They can offer cash discounts, however. It doesn't mean that some places don't violate their agreements, but Visa/MC/Amex could refuse to allow their cards to be accepted at such merchants.
Surcharges are actually against the Terms and Conditions the merchants agree to with the card networks. They can offer cash discounts, however. It doesn't mean that some places don't violate their agreements, but Visa/MC/Amex could refuse to allow their cards to be accepted at such merchants.
Actually they're allowed now in most states: http://usa.visa.com/personal/get-help/checkout-fees.jsp. There are some where they're still banned by law though.
macintologist
macrumors 6502a
I haven't seen such a thing, so.... Besides if I caught a business doing that I would never come back. To a business, that kind of risk is not worth it.
Edit: there is one diner in my town that is Cash only, and because they are so cheap and so good I know ahead of time to bring cash. I don't mind, because of their value proposition.
adammull
macrumors 6502a
I don't understand this line of thinking. My wife and I have owned two small businesses and credit card fees just don't seem like that big of a deal. Why not just add it into the product?
What's 3% on a $10 chicken sandwich, 30 cents? I mean just charge $10.50 and be done with it.
laurim
macrumors 68000
Isn't it stupid that someone would think it's better to punish someone for using credit rather than reward someone for using cash? No wonder so many businesses fail... stupid owners
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Yeah, but as hard as I try, I can't find a european restaurant that knows how to cook a good steak (except a Brazilian steakhouse in Berlin). Why is that? Even when they said is was a NY strip cut, it still came out tough as hell. Pizza is also a crapshoot, even in Italy. I was in Rome in Piazza della Signoria and ordered a pepperoni and mushroom pizza, which was a special order because for some reason that combo is a mystery to them. Took over 30 minutes to finally get and it was a soggy mess. Basically inedible. Same in multiple countries. And your Diet Coke tastes funny. WTF?
adammull
macrumors 6502a
Like every LARGE business isn't doing the same thing? You think Target is just eating fees? It's built into the products they sell. We're talking millions of dollars a year here.
laurim
macrumors 68000
That doesn't really pertain to what I was saying. Most businesses don't give a cash discount. Of course, processing fees are included in product prices. But the few small businesses trying to penalize credit card users with a fee would be better businesspeople if they simply gave cash users a discount. You're not trying to say those people are trying to include the cost in the product price AND charging a credit fee, are you?
The semantic difference between a fee to use a credit card and a discount for using cash can be very minimal to some.
laurim
macrumors 68000
I don't think there should be either in play because accepting all forms of payment is simply a cost of doing business but when a misguided businessperson is choosing between offering their customers a carrot or a stick to modify their behavior, it seems pretty stupid to choose the stick. I don't know why that's hard to understand.