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Target Says It's Working on Getting Apple Pay Into its Stores [Updated]

It's tokenised. Not going to argue. The world has it except the US. Maybe you might realise that there is a world and it is not just at the US. So narrow minded. Keep your money under the pillow......
 
tmiw said:
Fun fact: Mastercard rules require that the PIN be asked for on PIN-preferring cards but Target doesn't bother to ask for amounts under $50. (Nor do a lot of other places, really, which makes me think that their lawsuits claiming a "lack" of security by going chip and signature are full of hot air.)
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Over a certain dollar amount, Target requires a signature if you hit cancel at the PIN. From someone who refuses to ever give Target a PIN again.
 
No wonder the USis where it is. I say that in sadness. I love the place, visit for work 3 times a month, but geeze.....get with the rest of the world in everything.
[doublepost=1486959959][/doublepost]Fraud in Australia cut by 85% with chop
And pin.....fact
[doublepost=1486960015][/doublepost]Actually, if you don't support Apple, why are you even on this site?!?
 
CarlJ said:
What I've heard is that there are actually dozens of criteria that the credit card companies (sort of) require, but it's more like the transaction is scored and graded - so very slightly mismatched addresses or missing middle initials, or not supplying a PIN on a card that can be used either way, or not signing for a small purchase, all deduct a bit from the score for the transaction, and the issuer will still handle the transaction (up to a point), but will likely charge the store a higher fee for the transaction. And some businesses try harder than others to keep their transactions higher scoring, to keep their cost and/or liability down. (It's a tradeoff, they figure the more quick and painless the transaction is for the customer, the more likely the customer is to purchase something... balanced against keeping the transaction costs down.)
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My point is more that for all their arguing about how they should be able to force route debit cards over the "debit" networks, their "better security" argument falls short when they're allowing foreign and the few American chip and PIN cards to be run without the PIN.

Jezrix said:
In Australia, PIN has been manditoty for 2 years. Signatures are not accepted. Europe has had PIN since the 90's...no wonder there is so much fraud in the US. APPLE PAY is the most secure payment in the last decade. Get a grip and remember we have freedom of choice.
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Slight nitpick: signature's still allowed for foreign cards. Otherwise Americans wouldn't be able to use cards at all (and I apparently was able to last time I was there).

John.B said:
Over a certain dollar amount, Target requires a signature if you hit cancel at the PIN. From someone who refuses to ever give Target a PIN again.
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That's definitely not new. The not asking for the PIN under $50 is newer, though. Interestingly they don't waive it at all for REDcards, even the prepaid AmEx one.
 
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Jezrix said:
In Australia, PIN has been manditoty for 2 years. Signatures are not accepted. Europe has had PIN since the 90's...no wonder there is so much fraud in the US. APPLE PAY is the most secure payment in the last decade. Get a grip and remember we have freedom of choice.
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We have had PINs for debit cards in the US for quite a while. The thing is, at least the US implementation hasn't been secure, depending on how the individual retailer handled the information.

Target was probably the worst for this, since their corporate systems were storing not only the name, card number, and expiration date, but also the CVV printed three digit code on the back and the customer-entered PINs. So when Target got hacked in 2013, the fraudulent debit card charges appeared to the banks to be valid -- how would hackers have the CVV or PINs? -- until the sheer volume and common Target POS sources made the problem obvious. (Target eventually settled a class action lawsuit, paying a pittance of $20 to affected customers.)

There is also a similar situation at a smaller scale, where digital readers are being installed inside of gas pumps that surreptitiously collect the name, card number, expiration date, and PIN from anyone who runs their cards through as a debit card. Followed by fraudulent ATM withdrawls until daily maximums are hit or the banks eventually figure out transactions are happening simultaneously in different cities.

Unless the ANZ and European PIN systems are somehow substantially more secure, I don't see any reason why I would trust a PIN-based card system over a token-based system like Apple Pay.
 
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itguy06 said:
It doesnt vibrate anything. It uses a high powered magnet to emulate the magnetic strip of the card to the reader. Innovative technology but about 3 years too late. It will only be a matter of a short period of time before it will be rendered obsolete when chips are 100% required.

You have a LOT to learn so I'd say read up before replying.
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Except that Samsung Pay can utilize both technologies so once magnetic readers are fully obsolete you can keep on using NFC.
 
baldwyn08 said:
What I mean, though, is that in order for businesses to utilize Apple Pay, they have to upgrade their point of sale machines to accept the proprietary protocols that Apple demands.
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Not sure about the US, but when Apple Pay was introduced here in Australia, retailers who already had contactless terminals (which are available just about anywhere around the country) simply worked with Apple Pay. So I'm not sure what proprietary protocols Apple could be demanding that you're referring to. Apple Pay just worked on the same terminals. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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baldwyn08 said:
That may be the case but Samsung Pay doesn't even use NFC. The phone itself vibrates the pattern that is recognized by the card reader.
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Lol.
You thought your phone "vibrates a pattern" & NFC was a proprietary protocol cooked up by Apple...... any other wild tech ideas to share?!
You seriously put an ENORMOUS smile on my face this morning.
"Vibrates the pattern", lol.
When your phone vibrates to let you know you have a text, do you think it's Morse Coding you the text as well? ;0)
 
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tdar said:
It's not quite that simple.
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Yeah, they first have to actually care to flip the switch to turn NFC back on.

They have been saying "It's coming soon" ever since they shut it off. It's a stall tactic. They are probably all laughing at us at corporate offices. I doubt we will see in store Apple Pay / NFC capability for a long time if ever unless they get forced to.
 
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But but, CurrentC!!! Being in the test market for CurrentC, it was a major flop. Good for target for listening to customers and implementing Apple Pay.
 
corbindavenport said:
I'll believe it when I see it. They seem more fixated on selling customers Red Cards than allowing new payment methods.
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REDcard is awesome, as long as you pay your bill in full every month. 5% off, and free shipping on everything at Target.com.
 
John.B said:
And yet, Target continues to believe they can force their customers to tie their bank accounts to their store debit card (i.e. Red Card) or use some hokey QR scanner app.
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What are you referring to? Sounds like a Red Card Debit. Of course that would be tied to a bank account. That is how debit cards work -- they are basically a plastic check. I have a Red Card Credit (not Visa, just plain old Target only). It's not tied to my bank account. I get a monthly bill with a 25 day grace period to pay it.
 
baldwyn08 said:
Um. Okay. What I mean, though, is that in order for businesses to utilize Apple Pay, they have to upgrade their point of sale machines to accept the proprietary protocols that Apple demands. Samsung Pay works inherently with any existing credit card reader.
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Apple Pay does not use any proprietary protocols. They did not invent any part of the actual contactless purchase transaction. Attempting to do so would've meant total failure in the global marketplace.

My source card has a chip and it doesn't change a thing. It still works on any reader. Next?
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Yep, as long as it's not a deep magnetic dip like say, at a gas pump.

thisisnotmyname said:
Not if you are using the MST with a merchant that requires chip for chip card transactions. That would be the same as swiping the physical card then refusing to insert the chip.
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It would be the same, EXCEPT what Samsung Pay does with the cooperation of the banks, is turn off the "I have a chip" (ICC) flag during the MST virtual swipe.

That prevents a terminal from demanding the insertion of the physical chip card.

So he's right: it works in those cases as well.

itguy06 said:
It doesnt vibrate anything. It uses a high powered magnet to emulate the magnetic strip of the card to the reader. Innovative technology but about 3 years too late. It will only be a matter of a short period of time before it will be rendered obsolete when chips are 100% required.
You have a LOT to learn so I'd say read up before replying.
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Come on, be nice :). You guys knew what he meant. Just as I know that you actually meant to say "electromagnetic coil".

As for obsolete, that'll take years in the US, and even longer in half of the world. So it'll still be useful for many people for a very long time.

John.B said:
The main advantage to Apple Pay is that it shields bank/card information from retailers that can't be trusted to properly secure it.
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Samsung Pay, Android Pay, they all use tokens just like Apple Pay. See first comment above. Apple Pay does not do anything that others cannot and/or do not do already.

itguy06 said:
I do agree that a clever person could probably capture the magnetic pulses if they cpuld get close enough.
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Ditto for NFC of course.
 
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baldwyn08 said:
Meanwhile, my Galaxy S7 Edge works perfectly to pay at any credit card machine from the Mom and Pop convenience stores to yes, even Target. No BS proprietary protocols to follow and I even gain reward points with every purchase that I can redeem for gift cards. Beat that.
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I get regular updates from my manufacturer - and will continue to do so for a few more years. Beat that
 
If these companies were confident in their qr based "solutions," they would have no problem allowing apple pay anyway, but their refusal to implement tells me they know their ideas are longshots
 
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