Target to Carry Apple TVs?

[Clive At Five]

Hold on, Hold on. I was at the Apple Store a few weeks ago and they had 4 Apple TVs on display. Not one of them looked bad. I really don't know what you're talking about. They were playing Heros and some other shows available on the iTunes Store and I was floored by the quality. It looked HD to me. I didn't notice anything wrong with the demo units. In fact I went into the store not wanting an Apple TV and walked out longing for one. But I don't have a widescreen HDTV so I can't get one... oh well.

Really though the Apple TV is very nice, and the video looks great.

I watched "The Incredibiles" in-store and it was terrible... like someone said, much closer to YouTube than to DVD. Maybe I'll have to give it another shot if it's as good as you say... Not that I'll buy one unless someone teaches it to run elgato. Then we'll talk.

-Clive

 

[Rychiar]

i think this things gonna tank. I'm a diehard apple but and have 0 interest in even seein one of these things. Its not true HD and it doesnt support DIVX so why buy it? If ya want a movie its still better to go buy it on disc and get surround sound, etc. and if ya want TV get cable or the dvd box set or download it for free. No brainer, TV is useless

 

[aristobrat]

I watched "The Incredibiles" in-store and it was terrible...

They were playing Heros and some other shows available on the iTunes Store and I was floored by the quality. It looked HD to me.

Could it be that the copy of "The Incredibles" (an older movie) was from before the iTunes Store re-encoded its videos at a higher resolution, whereas the "Heroes" episode was encoded in the current higher resolution that the iTS sells stuff in?

Whatever the reason, it's a shame that Apple hasn't addressed this issue. Some of their demo video on the AppleTV looks awful.

I downloaded "The Prestige" DVD from the iTS and it looked a gazillion times better on my 50" plasma than "The Incredibles" did on the smaller screen at the Apple Store.

Garbage in, Garbage out.

On a side note, the number of newbies in this thread (especially 1 post newbies) is pretty interesting. I guess AppleTV really gets some folks riled up.

 

[3282872]

sales of Apple TVs at Best Buys have been slow.

Not surprised. Who wants to buy a $299 overpriced iTunes salesman? Might as well just get a cheaper DVI to HDMI cable and hook up your Mac to your TV, a lot better than an over priced paper weight manufactured to increase the sales of iTunes sub-DVD quality movies...

Of my circle of die hard Apple friends (me being a die hard Apple user for years), no one I know has given any props to Jobs and his team for this device. If anything, it's been a topic avoided for discussion...

 

[3282872]

No, he's on the money. The video they use in the in-store demos, not including the looped "commercial" on the boxes but the actual video that you can navigate to as you test it out... is atrocious... almost worse than 320x240.

Also, the Apple Store employees don't know what they're selling... I've been listening anonymously to sales pitches they give to other customers, and their lack of knowledge of the AppleTV and video/audio in general makes them no more useful to the sale than a Target or Best Buy employee.

Management is at fault for not training them adequately.

Agreed. Jobs has been rushing too many new products out at once. Due to this, Apple Store's have not been properly trained in technical specifics for the products they are selling, especially the TV. Next will be the iPhone, a product that is literally being rushed out for a June deadline to please stock owners and to save face. All this has delayed the release of a long awaited new OS system and is beginning to show a break down in Apple management and focus. The die hard Apple users are beginning to wonder if the new Apple, Inc. shift away from OS's to media products will compromise the quality and standards that have become trademarks for Apple for years...

 

[gkarris]

Not surprised. Who wants to buy a $299 overpriced iTunes salesman? Might as well just get a cheaper DVI to HDMI cable and hook up your Mac to your TV, a lot better than an over priced paper weight manufactured to increase the sales of iTunes sub-DVD quality movies...

Of my circle of die hard Apple friends (me being a die hard Apple user for years), no one I know has given any props to Jobs and his team for this device. If anything, it's been a topic avoided for discussion...

Ouch! Don't have HDMI on my TV...

 

[3282872]

In our comp usa store we have fully trained apple tech ppl and we have and apple rep right there! who is also the rep for tri state area!

Yeah, but try getting someone in a CompUSA store to acknowledge your presence and give you some assistance. The last time I ventured into one in upstate NY I waited a half hour with another customer waiting for an Apple "specialist" to assist us in the tiny Apple department tucked in the way back right hand corner, and that was after dragging three seperate sales associates away from either their personal conversations or other customers just to see if any one wasn't too busy to actually do their jobs. Just re-affirmed my belief that the Apple stores are the best way to go...

 

[3282872]

I think we're going to see HD content in the iTS store before the end of this year. Maybe when the new TV season starts in September but hopefully sooner.

HD is a given. I think the killer app is going to be direct purchase of content through tv over your wireless network -- without iTunes and without a computer.

How? HD DVD's/Movies are at LEAST 20 gig's, how in the world will iTunes Music Stores carry the load of thousands if not possibly millions to come users downloading HD Movies? At what bandwidth? Unless Apple starts utilizing bit-torrent engines for downloading the huge amounts of data required for a HD movie, it will either never happen or customers will be waiting days for one movie to be completed.

Also, as there isn't currently a way to burn downloaded movies to DVD's, after a few months or years of purchasing Movies/DVD's from iTunes where are they all going to fit? Most people don't have the room or money for huge amounts of data (especially High Definition content that is currently 30-50 gigs a DVD), and since you can't burn the movie to a DVD for future use what is the point? Music is one thing, as MP3's are typically and will typically be the same size, many can be purchased at high quantities and easily stored and burned on CD's, etc. Movie and HD Movie content on the other hand, not so much...

I'd rather hit Netflix or Blockbuster video, at least the movies come the next day and memberships for unlimited rentals are normally less than $20/month, a LOT cheaper than iTunes...

 

[dex22]

I'll buy one when:

I'll buy an tv when I can take my DVD collection and rip it into a smaller file size whilst maintaining quality. I don't want 1080P with 10K files or anything silly like that. I want to be able to drop the extra features on disc and JUST get the movie into my machine as H.264 - so the movie would be ~1.5GB

There may be unofficial ways to do that, but I want iTunes to handle DVDs the way they handle CDs now.

THEN I'll buy an tv

 

[LagunaSol]

Next will be the iPhone, a product that is literally being rushed out for a June deadline to please stock owners and to save face. All this has delayed the release of a long awaited new OS system and is beginning to show a break down in Apple management and focus.

Oh good grief, more tales of woe because of the iPhone? Please. First, this thing has been in development for years - it's hardly "being rushed out." And despite what anyone believes, this expansion of the Mac OS (yes, the iPhone is part of the Mac platform) is critical to Apple's continued success. You might remember another much-miligned-at-release product that just happened to save Apple's bacon? The iPod? Yeah, that one.

As for the Leopard delay, Tiger is still better than what Microsoft is churning out (and still meets all my needs just fine), and Apple hardware is far and away the most appealing stuff out there, so why all the doom and gloom?

Apple is right to expand their focus beyond the Mac. After all, the more people buy iPods and iPhones and AppleTVs, the more people end up buying Macs, and everything continues to build on itself.

All this "Apple is abandoning the Mac!" paranoia is as bad as the "Intel will kill the Mac platform!" and "We need OS 9, OS X will be a disaster!" nonsense was.

 

[3282872]

Oh good grief, more tales of woe because of the iPhone? Please. First, this thing has been in development for years - it's hardly "being rushed out." And despite what anyone believes, this expansion of the Mac OS (yes, the iPhone is part of the Mac platform) is critical to Apple's continued success. You might remember another much-miligned-at-release product that just happened to save Apple's bacon? The iPod? Yeah, that one.

As for the Leopard delay, Tiger is still better than what Microsoft is churning out (and still meets all my needs just fine), and Apple hardware is far and away the most appealing stuff out there, so why all the doom and gloom?

Apple is right to expand their focus beyond the Mac. After all, the more people buy iPods and iPhones and AppleTVs, the more people end up buying Macs, and everything continues to build on itself.

All this "Apple is abandoning the Mac!" paranoia is as bad as the "Intel will kill the Mac platform!" and "We need OS 9, OS X will be a disaster!" nonsense was.

Whoa, easy boy, eeeaaasyyy. I was not "giving grief" on "tales of woe". It's fact, whether you like it or not. The iPhone IS being rushed out as Apple, INC has admitted more resources have been needed to address last minute quality issues and such with the device, and that only a LIMITED amount will be released at the end of June.

Apple's recent focus over the years away from OS and computer technology and into multimedia isn't a figment of any one's imagination. Certainly the iPod has put Apple back on the map with consumers and the mainstream public, introducing them into the world of Apple quality and OS stability. No one is dissing the Mac OS system, especially compared to Windows. However, there has been an ever increasing shift AWAY from OS development and more focus placed on peripherial devices such as the iPod, TV and iPhone.

Don't take things so personally and relax, no one is dissing Apple. If no one here cared about the company and their personal take and experiences as Apple users no one would be commenting, complimenting or criticizing. Criticism is essential to a company's progress, without such there would be very little growth comparitively.

 

[LagunaSol]

How? HD DVD's/Movies are at LEAST 20 gig's, how in the world will iTunes Music Stores carry the load of thousands if not possibly millions to come users downloading HD Movies?

Huh??? Apparently someone hasn't heard of H.264.

A 45-minute TV episode from iTunes at 640x480 is around 500 megs. A movie at 720p would be 3x the total pixels + 2-3x the running time. So that's 4.5 gigs max. Hardly 20 gigs. And going all the way up to 1080p is another 2.25 the amount of pixels of 720p. So that's 10 gigs. But I don't think we'll see 1080p through iTunes anytime soon. I'd be content right now just to get 720p.

 

[3282872]

Huh??? Apparently someone hasn't heard of H.264.

A 45-minute TV episode from iTunes at 640x480 is around 500 megs. A movie at 720p would be 3x the total pixels + 2-3x the running time. So that's 4.5 gigs max. Hardly 20 gigs. And going all the way up to 1080p is another 2.25 the amount of pixels of 720p. So that's 10 gigs. But I don't think we'll see 1080p through iTunes anytime soon. I'd be content right now just to get 720p.

lol at 640x480? For an iPod sure, but certainly not for my 50" 1080P Pioneer. I was addressing HIGH DEFINTION MOVIES, NOT REGULAR DVD's. Please re-read my posts for attempting to disparage my comments. That's 2 for 2 now...

 

[LagunaSol]

The iPhone IS being rushed out as Apple, INC has admitted more resources have been needed to address last minute quality issues and such with the device, and that only a LIMITED amount will be released at the end of June.

I don't buy Apple's silly excuse that the iPhone has caused Leopard's delay. I think Leopard, and related iApps, simply weren't ready to go.

Apple's recent focus over the years away from OS and computer technology and into multimedia isn't a figment of any one's imagination.

No one said it was. They are obviously pushing in these directions to expand their business. But their OS and other software is still much better than the competition, and their computer hardware is the best stuff out there, so it's hard to argue that their attention to consumer electronics has hurt their Mac innovation. I firmly believe that Apple can walk and chew gum at the same time. And as an AAPL shareholder (albeit a small amount), I say "Keep on truckin', Apple!"

Don't take things so personally and relax, no one is dissing Apple.

No personal hurt here. I'm just dismayed at all the recent wailings about the "fall of Apple" because of their push into consumer electronics. We need to look at the big picture. Apple will always make Macs, and Macs will always be the best computers out there. Microsoft will never "get it," and Apple could sell a billion iPods and iPhones and not change that fact.

 

[tribulation]

I don't GET this product or WHY they introduced it, my best guess is that its to please investors beause it smocks of synergy? But I didn't think Apple was the type of company to make a product for the sake of making one...

I can see that this product would be useful when hard disks are big enough on computers to store a typical number of movies in a person's library and when iTunes offers something more rare (HD movies). Right now it's just a burden to store movies on a computer (too much space) and it's not worth it (better quality on DVD).

LOL. Totally with you there. I said it before the launch and I'll say it again, yes after trying one --- POINTLESS. With massive hacks, it's starting to look half decent. But without Apple shipping it with email, web browsing, big hard drive so that it can do something worthwhile on its own WITHOUT my computer and only talk to my computer when I want it to (not much most likely), and for heaven's sake, a DVR or subscription TV iTunes.

Without those rather simple things, then no buy for me and most others I assume. And yes they are relatively simple things that should just come for free with OSX. The DVR and/or iTunes TV subscription service is the only "bonus" feature that would take some work, but isn't that what I'm paying them for? In the end, it makes them even more money assuming they go with a subscription route.

They should've either waited until it was an actual version 1.0 product, or tossed the idea altogether because it's turning out to be what I see as one of the most defunct and crippled Apple products ever released.

 

[LagunaSol]

lol at 640x480? For an iPod sure, but certainly not for my 50" 1080P Pioneer. I was addressing HIGH DEFINTION MOVIES, NOT REGULAR DVD's. Please re-read my posts for attempting to disparage my comments. That's 2 for 2 now...

Dude, I explicitly pointed out that full 1080p resolution using H.264 is NOT the "at LEAST 20 gigs" as you stated. It's half that. Perhaps you should read my full post before responding? I was hardly singing the praises of 640x480 video. Please. You're, um, 0-2 now...

And whether you believe it or not, online distribution of video media (yes, even 1080p media) is the future. It's just not clear how far away that future is. Apple knows it. Microsoft knows it. Apparently you don't know it.

 

[scu]

Or only nerds, although regular folks have TVs too.


I know I'm not being as analytical as you lot, but like the iPod, which seemed ridiculous to me at first, the general population will eventually catch up with the technology. If customers continue with their DVDs and never rip them, and the iTMS never releases higher quality videos, then yes, TV will be a failure. However, as more people record TV to their computers, and as more people store movies on their computer harddrives, the TV will start to make more and more sense.

You could have said the same thing about the general population about their music listening habits, but people adopt new technology eventually. Apple is gambling that the general population is going to adopt this technology in this way. They're essentially taking a risk, hoping that people's habits will evolve in the direction that Apple envisions. If they don't, and they evolve in another direction because of alternatives ("I like my TiVo just fine, thank you") or because of a future unreleased product that people seem to like more than using their computer for everything media-related, then Apple will fail.

I agree with you. I still recall when many were skeptical about the general public paying $400 for an iPod when it first came out. Heck you could get an mp3 player for a fraction of that cost. Five years later we have sold over 100 million iPods as prices came down and they offered more features. Apple created a new craze and habit forming music experience. I think they will do the same with the AppleTV. It will take time and it is a gamble. But this time they have the ability to see it succeed because they have over 100 stores to market the product and a much bigger user base to get the ball rolling. In 2 years this product may become as popular as the iPod and the future iPhone.

 

[3282872]

Dude, I explicitly pointed out that full 1080p resolution using H.264 is NOT the "at LEAST 20 gigs" as you stated. It's half that.

Then that must be some serious crack you're smoking Whitney. No way does a HD 1080 movie fit in around 10 gigs or less. Chris Angel can't even pull that one off, and I have done enough work in video editing/production to know that

A 45-minute TV episode from iTunes at 640x480 is around 500 megs

Perhaps you should read my full post before responding? I was hardly singing the praises of 640x480 video.

You weren't??? Hmmm, your comments suggest otherwise... maybe you should re-read them...

And whether you believe it or not, online distribution of video media (yes, even 1080p media) is the future. It's just not clear how far away that future is.

And how, pray tell, will millions of ITMS customers be able to download huge amounts of data so quickly, especially 1080P content??? Not with the current technology. I purchased the Airport N station, but the N standard won't even be officially adopted until late 2008...

Apparently you don't know it.

Hmmm, that's an awfully harsh statement to make as you don't know a thing about me (but apparently chose to single out my comments out of the dozens of negative comments posted in this thread about TV - seems someone has a hard on for me lol). Sure, I know online media content in motion pictures are inevitably the future of broadcasting, but Apple seems to have rushed the yard line with this product. It would have made more sense to wait until the technology was available for mass production, i.e. better DVD quality movies, ripping, storage space and wireless bandwidth...

 

[Object-X]

AppleTV is aimed at the tech savvy community, its ready for mass consumption when it won't need a computer in the network and get its content direct from the internet.

And therin lies the true ability of this device, though they are not really using it yet. Streaming media to it directly from the internet is the next evolution of AppleTV. Right now all they are using it for is movie trailers and tv show previews. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that they could work with a company like Yahoo! and tie into their video streams (which use Quicktime btw).

Yahoo! for example has stream clips from CNN, 60 Minutes, BBC, ect. If you launch them in your browser they will start playing commercials an all. Now, just reformat them for use with AppleTV and a quick software update and presto, instant TV news on AppleTV (with commercials).

I think this will be one way AppleTV will evolve and it won't require a Mac or even a computer, just a way to update the AppleTV.

Once AppleTV hits a certain critical mass, how long will it be that the major broadcast companies, including cable, are asking Apple for access for their programming? They get paid the usual way with commercials, and AppleTV is a glorified antenna or receiver box.

 

[LagunaSol]

You weren't??? Hmmm, your comments suggest otherwise... maybe you should re-read them...

You're trying to use what they call a "straw man." I simply stated the data rate for a 640x480 video as a baseline for calculating the size of a 720p or 1080p video using H.264. I'm sorry you can't see that.

And how, pray tell, will millions of ITMS customers be able to download huge amounts of data so quickly, especially 1080P content??? Not with the current technology.

Perhaps you missed when I clearly said "But I don't think we'll see 1080p through iTunes anytime soon."

Debate (and even outright disagreement) is healthy, but geeze, try to put some rational thought into it.

 

[k2k koos]

AppleTV is aimed at the tech savvy community, its ready for mass consumption when it won't need a computer in the network and get its content direct from the internet.

I would love an add-on with bigger HD, DVD player that can rip and mediacard reader.

That is still a pretty big community, how many people now have an iPod, there are at least as many PC's out there (iPod's need a PC or Mac to get their content), so there IS a market, but the market needs to be shown , plain and simple, how it works.

It could still be done hip, cool, and clear , for a commercial, but I agree that the current commercial only makes sense to those that already know how it works.

 

[marktesssing]

- If you never experienced the Apple TV yourself, you can't feel the need for it. I personally was very reluctant to buy this thing for the following reason:
1) film quality from the iTune is not DVD quality.(tried it, before I bought ATV)
2) couldn't believe that you could stream video correctly via g-type wireless network

After I bought it this is my experience:
1) Finally my all family can see my 1000's of fotos from my PC via a slideshow on the TV
2)or listen to my complete Music libary with a touch of button on my apple remote. During the music session you have a screensaver that shows very nicely all my pictures in small animated way. It really rocks.

But, i've read that when you "browse" off the song thats playing, the music stops. is that true?
I like to browse/search/look through my library for the next track while one is playing. I use playlists but thats "static". I like chosing the next track based on the playing track. From across the room.

Tv and phone is not my main interest in the atv

 

[marktesssing]

Sure, I know online media content in motion pictures are inevitably the future of broadcasting, but Apple seems to have rushed the yard line with this product. It would have made more sense to wait until the technology was available for mass production, i.e. better DVD quality movies, ripping, storage space and wireless bandwidth...

but, what would be the driving force behind introducing these techs if their is nothing to consume it. Its the old chicken and the egg, which came first? I always thought sony created a product and then creates the market later, apple is doing the same.

 

[aristobrat]

And how, pray tell, will millions of ITMS customers be able to download huge amounts of data so quickly, especially 1080P content??? Not with the current technology.

If Microsoft's letting XBox owners download 720p movies and TV shows onto their XBox's 20GB drive without any problems, I'm sure Apple can figure out a way to deal with the bandwidth issues.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/06/microsofts-xbox-live-video-hdtv-and-hd-movie-downloads-for-you/

* You can only download content to your Xbox 360 drive -- not to an external drive.
* Downloads are in VC-1 (aka WMVHD) at 720p, 6.8Mbps video with 5.1 surround.
* An average HD movie download should be between 4-5GB, and a two hour SD movie would be 1.6GB.
* An average 1 hour (44 min) HDTV download should be about 2.2GB, and an average 1/2 hour (22 min) HDTV download should be about 1GB. A 1 hour SDTV download should be about 600MB, and a 1/2 hour SDTV download should be about 300MB.

 

[ariza910]

How? HD DVD's/Movies are at LEAST 20 gig's, how in the world will iTunes Music Stores carry the load of thousands if not possibly millions to come users downloading HD Movies? At what bandwidth? Unless Apple starts utilizing bit-torrent engines for downloading the huge amounts of data required for a HD movie, it will either never happen or customers will be waiting days for one movie to be completed.

Also, as there isn't currently a way to burn downloaded movies to DVD's, after a few months or years of purchasing Movies/DVD's from iTunes where are they all going to fit? Most people don't have the room or money for huge amounts of data (especially High Definition content that is currently 30-50 gigs a DVD),

CJD2112, I think your confused as to how much space an HD movie really takes up. Yes new HD-DVDs and BluRay disks are 25-50GB but that doesnt mean the movie takes up all of that space. When you take out all of the extras, foreign languages, commentary audio tracks and fancy HD chapter selection menus your left with just the HD movie at around 5-10GB. And as LagunaSol was trying to tell you with H.264 Apple may be able to further compress the file size without a loss in quality.

Your assumption regarding bandwith is also incorrect, anyone with broadband access would be able to download HD movies without a problem. As a matter of fact the XBOX 360 already lets you buy and download HD movies.

Oh and the Apple TV can already stream HD content over 802.11N and the more common 802.11G so I dont see a problem there