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Maybe Apple should further limit there trial period the to something they and the artists can agree upon.

Well they did agree it with the major labels. The length of the trial isn't something that could be negotiated separately with lots of different artists and smaller labels.
 
This is not about Apple offering a three month free service, this is about paying the artists. If Apple wants to offer a free service they are welcome to do so but offer it on their Dime. They are just being cheap by creating a sales pitch that they are not prepared to pay for. Good for you Taylor, it takes the large successful Artist to speak up without fear of being made a victim.
 
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But if you think about it... she wasn't getting anything from Apple Music subscriptions before it was a thing. In 3 months time, she will start getting money from Apple Music subscriptions.

If Eddie Cue had bothered to explain anything at all about how this service actually works on stage instead of spending a half hour showing us songs he likes, this whole thing would have been cleared up from the get go. I hope they fire whatever bozo wrote that keynote. Seriously dropped, quite a few balls in that one.
 
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She's more of a performance artist, right? Which of her hit songs did she write herself, I forget...

Doesn't mean she's not talented, though...
She wrote many many many of her songs actually. Her portfolio is huge. I'm sure that it was mostly lyrics. But that's 50% of the writing credit.


Having said that: I'm usually on her side with these things except this time.

Apple is trying to gain business with the initial 3 month free offering that will ultimately benefit both parties if people like the service.

Swift is showing her greed now...
 
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Well Apple is not the only game in town. Spotify, Pandora, Google Music, Amazon all offer excellent music streaming services. The day the music industry stops viewing Apple as the huge Goliath of music distribution is the day Apple stops their profit grabbing practices.
Sounds like you truly hope for that to happen. I hope people don't hope for you to fail at your business. :rolleyes:
 
If it isn't generating any revenue, what value is it giving to Apple?

If your answer is that it adds value to the Apple Music service in the long run, then by the same token that must be adding value for the artists too.


We'll see when Apple music go's live. What artists will Apple music be missing and who will care?
 
She's more of a performance artist, right? Which of her hit songs did she write herself, I forget...

Doesn't mean she's not talented, though...

Taylor Swift has written every single song she's ever released and every song on all her 5 albums. Her third album, her most critically acclaimed, was done without any co-writers.
 
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Taylor should put this album on for free to make up for those that spent good money for they first two when she was the worst singer in Nashville. She has improved a lot, but in the beginning she was off key and pitchy.
 
Yeah, I'm just guessing. But I do know that there are "starving" artists. I do know that is not made up. They struggle from week to week and they tend to work on the Indie labels which I strongly suspect do not have a few months of capital just sitting in the bank to tide them over. Small companies generally are finely balanced with cash coming in equalling cash going out pretty closely. If this Apple Music launch does what I think it will do which is drop the revenue of all the streaming services by 20% and iTunes sales by some solid percentage while not adding a balancing revenue anywhere, then the music industry is going to feel this. For the indie and the artists the revenue from these services is pure revenue with no cost associated. Any decrease in this goes straight to the bottom line. So if you business generates $100k per month but costs $90k to run, having the revenue decrease just a bit really gets you in trouble really quickly.

But that's the point - if an artist is struggling that much, then their income from free streaming services will be virtually $0.

Which was Swift's rationale for pulling her music from spotify.

Check out this graphic:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/infobeautiful2/selling_out_550.png

From that an artist needs to be streamed around 330,000 times to earn the same as selling just 1 album on CD or iTunes.

I would think it extremely unlikely that an artist struggling that much would be streamed that much.

And even if they were they'd only earn as much as they would from just 1 album sale.

So the principle is one thing, but in practical terms with actual figures it doesn't stack up.
 
But isn't Apple asking these artists to act as a welfare system for Apple by providing their content which has value to apple for free?

Technically the artists would be providing a welfare system for the fans. Apple wouldn't be making any money off the deal until somebody subscribes, at which point the artists start making money too.
 
If Eddie Cue had bothered to explain anything at all about how this service actually works on stage instead of spending a half hour showing us songs he likes, this whole thing would have been cleared up from the get go. I hope they fire whatever bozo wrote that keynote. Seriously dropped, quite a few balls in that one.

Spot on. They barely mentioned any of the obvious advantages of streaming from a massive library for the average customer, but for some reason went to great lengths to explain how great manually curated playlists are like they had invented something great and new. The icing on the cake though was trying to make a 24 hour radio station seem like a revolution.

All in all the Apple Music presentation was a huge wasted opportunity that focused on all the wrong things.
 
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It's called a loss leader... Don't worry you'll be back to pulling in 100's of millions after this terrible trial period.. I hope you can make it until then.
It should be a loss leader for Apple's music service not the Artists. Apple's not taking any loss. They're giving away the Artist's property for free.

Taylor Swift is not talking about her own income. She is sticking up for Independent Artists who have no voice when dealing with multi-billion dollar corporations.

Just curious, who is picking up the tab to the servers,bandwidth, marketing, etc.? Oh Apple... Who will reap the majority of the sales benefits once it's live. Oh the Artists.... carry on nothing to see here folks...
Apple's services are only to sell devices of which the Artists get no share. Apple makes money off the devices not the services. You can't stream music out of thin air. You need a device.


...guess what NO ONE was buying indie songs anyway....
Just because my neighbor's car is sitting unused doesn't mean I can use it for free or give it away.
 
they are already being compensated for streams during the free trial period because Apple pays a larger than industry standard rate AFTER the trial period ends. The issue isn't that they don't get paid, the issue is when do they get paid.

I understand that, but you are talking about 90 days of no payments. There aren't too many people that would be very happy with you if you didn't pay them for 90 days after buying something. That said, the artists have the opportunity to opt out of the service if they don't like terms. So I'm not feeling bad for artists in the least. All I was expressing was surprise that Apple has chosen "no compensation" over "reduced compensation" during the trial period.
 
She's more of a performance artist, right? Which of her hit songs did she write herself, I forget...

Doesn't mean she's not talented, though...

She writes or co-writes all of her own music. She is listed as a writer on every track she has ever released.

Her entire third album, Speak Now, was written and composed entirely by Swift herself and sold over 1 million copies in its first week.

So no, I wouldn't say that she is just a performance artist.
 
If I want to throw a big party in my town and offer free lobster dinners for everyone who attends, I could try to get the fisherman to fish for free, the chefs to prepare it for free, the servers to serve it for free, etc. Or I could still offer a free lobster dinner by paying the "creators" myself and then getting to serve up my free lobster dinner. Everybody's happy.

Actually... If you were trying to start a lobster subscription service which would definitely increase the long-term amount of lobster paid for and consumed in the world... it would be completely reasonable to ask the fishermen (who will ultimately benefit VERY MUCH in the long term from increased revenue) to provide the lobster for that party for free.

Hope that helps you understand loss-leaders.
 
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This is not about Apple offering a three month free service, this is about paying the artists. If Apple wants to offer a free service they are welcome to do so but offer it on their Dime. They are just being cheap by creating a sales pitch that they are not prepared to pay for. Good for you Taylor, it takes the large successful Artist to speak up without fear of being made a victim.

Actually, those who have the most to gain are the labels, since they're taking 70% of the split with Apple (then paying whatever of that to the artists). So, in fact, Swift may be attacking Apple on this, but really BOTH the labels AND Apple should be footing the bill for the trial period, and they should share the cost on the same 70/30 split; 70 paid to their artists by the labels, and 30 paid by Apple. After all, the labels have a lot to gain from the deal, since they'll be receiving it from all artists in their roster once it enters the paid phase. A single artist, not so much...
 
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This is not a Problem for Taylor Swift and big bands, but its for the indie artists and the teenager artists in their bed rooms - working all night on a song!
And that to me is why I'm pleased Taylor has put her foot down and said no and that's also why I will still pay for Spotify.
But Taylor hates Spotify. Taylor "put her foot down and said no" to Spotify, why are you still paying for Spotify?

You make no sense.
 
Pretty valid point. I was under the assumption Apple was just eating up the costs for 3 months. We'll see if this picks up more traction and changes anything.

I'm not sure I hear anyone speaking reason in this conversation.

The 3 months trial period will be good for ALL artists in the long run. You're foregoing revenue up front in order to "hook" more people and make that revenue up in the long run. It's just a matter of whether or not that tradeoff is financially "worth it". If it is, great. If not, Apple wouldn't be doing it in the first place. Don't forget Apple is also foregoing "getting paid".

It's a revenue-sharing agreement. The consumer is getting something (temporarily) for free. It's not as though Apple is getting paid and the artists aren't. NO ONE is getting paid.

Perhaps Apple could work out an alternate agreement with artists who aren't willing to forego that initial 3 months of revenue in exchange for a lower royalty rate in the future.
 
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Big difference. Spotify's free model is supported by Ad's. Apples is not not.

Apple doesn't have a free tier at all, they have a trial, that's it. After it's over you pay or you don't, there's no other option. The main difference is that when you do pay, the royalties Apple pay are higher, so in the long term Apple are increasing the value of music, over Spotify, which is surely a good thing.
 
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What really remains to be seen is whether or not streaming will take over from buying outright, however it does seem to be the way the industry is trying to force things. After all if none of us own the music we love we will have to pay them forever if we want to listen to it, which is surely what the record labels have been after since there were record labels. And there's no guarantee that when enough people have switched and CD's are no more it will stay at £9.99 a month, there's nothing stopping it going up and up.
 
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