Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I suspect the third amplifier is used to drive the Taptic Engine. That device is essentially a low frequency audio speaker. It is much simpler to order 50% more of a component that they are already using than to choose a different amplifier/driver.

I suppose that could also be possible, but then why wasn't it the same way on the iPhone 6S?
 
How is creating millions of throwaway earbuds each with a DAC and lead solder good for the environment? I thought Apple was the self proclaimed tech champion of caring for the Earth, not the leader paving the way for tons of new e-waste.


It's lead free solder, and you do more damage to the Earth eating two cheeseburgers and starting your car twice than these things do. Get over it.
 
it's not impossible when the thing looks so bulky and so ugly for an apple adapter end. It seemed appalling through the leaks and I was hoping it to be a 3rd party mockup, but no....

It's actually about the same size as the adapter they used to ship with the original iPod Shuffle sport case (since the opening in the case for the 3.5 inch jack was too small for many earphones). Of course that didn't have to contain a DAC.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CarlJ
How is creating millions of throwaway earbuds each with a DAC and lead solder good for the environment? I thought Apple was the self proclaimed tech champion of caring for the Earth, not the leader paving the way for tons of new e-waste.

How do you know they're not using lead-free solder? RoHS compliance is a pretty big deal these days.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CarlJ
A manufacturer of quality audio devices can now embed a better DAC in their device than was previously inside the phone. They couldn't do that before. THAT's the argument. It is unrelated to the throw-in adapter.
They could always do that by manufacturing a Lightning headphone. This move has added nothing but removed plenty.
 
The 3.5mm plug is a gold standard, there's really nothing wrong with it. But it's disgusting how Apple is trying to FORCE a change with this just so they can sell more headphones and make money through licensing the lightning port.

So what, now we need to switch over to Apple's proprietary crap just because Apple wants to? Everyone can currently use their 3.5mm jack headphones and stick them into almost any other device... WHY does Apple want to pointlessly fragment this???

It would be pointless only if there was no benefit.

- 1 in 5 headphones bought in the US were already Bluetooth a few months before the iPhone 7 announcement (and trending to grow larger)
- Bigger battery
- Bigger taptic engine
- A cheap adaptor to clip onto existing headphones (1 free in the box)
- Better waterproofing
- Non-mechanical Home Button (linked to the bigger taptic engine)

Apple's ultimate aim is obvious - wireless everywhere they can. If that doesn't work for you it may be worth pursuing alternative products as I don't see them changing course (especially as it seems the iPhone 7 is selling just fine).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: MrGimper
Consider the Oppo HA-2 (about $300) or the Dragonfly Black ($100) or Dragonfly Red ($200). All are very highly reviewed. The Oppo is roughly the size and weight of a smart phone, while the Dragonflies are roughly the size and weight of a USB thumb drive, in case portability is an important consideration. I'm sure there are other good options, but these are the ones I'm most familiar with. I think each of them sounds better than the FiiO E17 that I previously owned.

Good luck!

At head-fi both objective measurements and subjective sound reviews are indicating that the included adapter sounds better than the Dragonfly units, and it's free, and doesn't excessively drain your battery.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CarlJ
It would be pointless only if there was no benefit.

- 1 in 5 headphones bought in the US were already Bluetooth a few months before the iPhone 7 announcement (and trending to grow larger)
- Bigger battery
- Bigger taptic engine
- A cheap adaptor to clip onto existing headphones (1 free in the box)
- Better waterproofing
- Non-mechanical Home Button (linked to the bigger taptic engine)

Apple's ultimate aim is obvious - wireless everywhere they can. If that doesn't work for you it may be worth pursuing alternative products as I don't see them changing course (especially as it seems the iPhone 7 is selling just fine).




Beyond wireless, there's also the benefits of switching to a lightning plug for headphones. Apple was understandably focused on the wireless options, but here's a small compendium of why you are missing out if you only use headphones via a 3.5mm jack.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/7/11874706/iphone-7-lightning-headphones-reasons
 
Beyond wireless, there's also the benefits of switching to a lightning plug for headphones. Apple was understandably focused on the wireless options, but here's a small compendium of why you are missing out if you only use headphones via a 3.5mm jack.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/7/11874706/iphone-7-lightning-headphones-reasons

The problem is most of those are a smokescreen. They won't actually be realized in anything but a tiny minority of uses - and - more importantly - there was nothing stopping those same advantages from being realized while keeping the 3.5mm jack. The reality is that if Lightning was truly an advantage for headphones, we would have already seen the transition beginning in a meaningful way because users would have been convinced of the superiority of the port sitting right next to their headphone jack.
 
Take out 3D touch hardware, put this AD converter in place and voila - 3.5mm jack saved. But oh no we have to waterproof it because we don't know how to do it right without removing the jack and let's save the useless 3D touch and include a ginormous taptic doodle dumb.


I've used 3d touch. I have yet to use wired headphones with any of my iphones. Your point is invalid.
[doublepost=1474473166][/doublepost]
I am not happy about it but as an audiophile i never regarded the headphone jack on a smartphone to be of much worth. Small space so small OP amps. Small space and cost savings so normal lower end DAC single stream. I however use the heck out of the jack while i am at work humming along making the very same money i am about to give to you apple. I use it in the data center with my already owned and very pleased with in-ear monitors. I use it in my car. I use it in other peoples cars. I have to this day never had a bluetooth headphone experience that was worth more than a wet noodle. I have a nice pair of bose over eat BT 4.0 headphones. I get scratchy connection or connection issues or they loose pairing or they refuse to re-connect. This is with an iPhone. The Retina macbook pro i have here simply spits in the face all all BT headphones they are scratchy or glitchy or down right horrendous to use.

So what do I do, quite simple i plug in my headphones to the powered 3.5mm jack on the side or bottom and i jam right on.

So to me taking away the jack before I a competent System Admin / Developer could make it work with zero friction is the definition is crazy.

I long for the day i can power up my bose toss them on and rock out like you see in the apple adverts. That day is always a day away it seems.


Audiophile, bose, lol.
 
The problem is most of those are a smokescreen. They won't actually be realized in anything but a tiny minority of uses - and - more importantly - there was nothing stopping those same advantages from being realized while keeping the 3.5mm jack. The reality is that if Lightning was truly an advantage for headphones, we would have already seen the transition beginning in a meaningful way because users would have been convinced of the superiority of the port sitting right next to their headphone jack.


Flawed logic. There are a multitude of independent reasons for Apple to replace the legacy 3.5mm jack, just as Intel has called for replacing it. It would also be illogical to have to forgo those benefits to have duplicate headphone jacks when you easily, as Apple has shown, accommodate the switchover from the lesser capable 3.5mm to the lightning plug.

The reason you haven't seen the significant transition until now is that until someone takes the leadership role in producing lightning headphones at scale, e.g., Apple as the leading manufacturer in the world; other companies would be too afraid or couldn't afford to risk it.

You may pine for the 3.5mm, but when you have industry leaders like Intel and Apple calling for its replacement, coupled with the wireless revolution now taking off, you are going to have your heart broken. Apple will not leave you out in the cold because they are giving you both lightning equipped headphones and a free adapter for your old plugs, but the 3.5 mm plug's days are clearly numbered, probably sooner that all of us realize. Remember that there are now over 900 million lightning equipped devices in the world and several hundred million more will be added over the next 12 months. The BT/wireless trajectory is also now unstoppable, with revenue exceeding wired for the first time months ago, and nearly 1 in 5 units being wireless last summer. Not to mention that 90% of new cars have BT and the billions in sales of BT speakers. Yes, between BT and lightning, betting on the 3.5mm jack is like betting on the good old incandescent bulb because it worked "it had been here forever," and worked "just fine" and LED, etc., "would never catch on."
 
Last edited:
Anybody knows if the "quality" of the DAC can impact the quality of sound? If yes... how good are the ones provided by Apple? Are there better ones?
The DAC provided in the adapter or in the phone (the iPhone or any other smart phone), is, due to cost and space constraints, of mediocre quality. They always have been. LG is claiming some of their phones have better quality DAC/amps, but I haven't had a listen yet. What is very good about Apple's elimination of the headphone socket, is that better quality external DAC/amps will proliferate, and people's ears will be protected from distorted and ugly sound. I have been using one for some time now (the Oppo HA 2 - which plugs into the lightning port, or the usb port on compatible android phones), and would never go back to the mediocrity of an in-phone DAC/amp. Based on what I have seen, a very good DAC/amp can fit in a space that is quite small, but bigger, up to a point, is better. The Oppo HA 2 is about the size of an iPhone 6. Some of the DAC/amps in better wireless headphones are, to me, audibly superior to phone internals.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Tomapple
Given the very tiny size of this DAC would it be any good?? I figure a DAC inside a phone or iPod/mp3 player would be bigger and therefore more powerful.
No, it wouldn't be, and the internal ones are tiny and mediocre as well, iPhone or any other brand. LG is claiming better quality but I haven't tried one yet and am skeptical. See my longer answer to a similar question, above. Do a search on "lightning DAC amp", to find good ones that are available, and more will certainly be coming and they will get more compact now that Apple has done the right thing and gotten rid of the archaic headphone socket.
 
Flawed logic. There are a multitude of independent reasons for Apple to replace the legacy 3.5mm jack, just as Intel has called for replacing it. It would also be illogical to have to forgo those benefits to have duplicate headphone jacks when you easily, as Apple has shown, accommodate the switchover from the lesser capable 3.5mm to the lightning plug.

The reason you haven't seen the significant transition until now is that until someone takes the leadership role in producing lightning headphones at scale, e.g., Apple as the leading manufacturer in the world; other companies would be too afraid or couldn't afford to risk it.

Honestly it's this logic that sounds flawed to me. Why should a 'superior' technology in this case not succeed on its own merits? The simple answer is because it doesn't actually bring anything better to the table. Once you add these new chips and licensing fees to every headphone sold with iPhone compatibility, the best possible scenario you can hope for is that the sound quality doesn't end up markedly worse than the reliably good chips Apple has always used. To think that it's going to get better when 3rd party manufacturers now need to spend extra money installing extra components in their headphones at a given budget is just lunacy.
 
I've used 3d touch. I have yet to use wired headphones with any of my iphones. Your point is invalid.
[doublepost=1474473166][/doublepost]


Audiophile, bose, lol.
Yep cause i am not a mobile audiophile.

I have a setup with bowers 803D with a Mcintosh power amp.

When i am mobile comfort > sound quality
 
Flawed logic. There are a multitude of independent reasons for Apple to replace the legacy 3.5mm jack, just as Intel has called for replacing it.
Sure. The thing is that these reasons have more to do with their balance sheets than with our interests as consumers.
You may pine for the 3.5mm, but when you have industry leaders like Intel and Apple calling for its replacement
These leaders wish to lead in different directions. Intel is championing USB, not Lightning.
but the 3.5 mm plug's days are clearly numbered, probably sooner that all of us realize.
I'm pretty sure it will have a longer life than Lightning.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Larry-K
It's a shame that people who bought $500+ high-end high quality headphones and have all of their music in FLAC will have to use a dongle with a piece of **** DAC in it.
If you have spent $500 on headphones, and you are plugging them into the headphone jack on any smartphone or cheap attached dongle, given the mediocre quality of the cost and space constrained DAC/amp inside, you are wasting some nice headphones. At that point, you need to go to a good quality $100 to $300 external DAC/amp to realize the potential of your expensive cans, but that has been a necessity long before Apple removed the jack.
[doublepost=1474499912][/doublepost]
Sure. The thing is that these reasons have more to do with their balance sheets than with our interests as consumers.
These leaders wish to lead in different directions. Intel is championing USB, not Lightning.
I'm pretty sure it will have a longer life than Lightning.
It will have a long life, but not in smartphones (somehow my reply got merged into the wrong post -- I meant to say that the headphone jack will have a long life, but not in smartphones, Apple or Android.) I think apple will eventually replace lightning with usb 3. I would also add that the quality of the sound in their headphones is something that the consumer has an interest in, and I think that is part of Apple's motive along with the profit motive they share with every other corporation.
 
Last edited:
Honestly it's this logic that sounds flawed to me. Why should a 'superior' technology in this case not succeed on its own merits? The simple answer is because it doesn't actually bring anything better to the table. Once you add these new chips and licensing fees to every headphone sold with iPhone compatibility, the best possible scenario you can hope for is that the sound quality doesn't end up markedly worse than the reliably good chips Apple has always used. To think that it's going to get better when 3rd party manufacturers now need to spend extra money installing extra components in their headphones at a given budget is just lunacy.


You've got too much wrong information to unpack it all, but I'll point you to further reading on this topic so you'll understand the benefits of lightning headphones and why it has succeeded to the tune of almost a billion, let that sink in, yes a billion lightning connected devices in a short period of time. And then you'll understand why the company that makes the most popular headphones in the world is ditching the old 3.5mm plug for Lightning.
 
You've got too much wrong information to unpack it all, but I'll point you to further reading on this topic so you'll understand the benefits of lightning headphones and why it has succeeded to the tune of almost a billion, let that sink in, yes a billion lightning connected devices in a short period of time. And then you'll understand why the company that makes the most popular headphones in the world is ditching the old 3.5mm plug for Lightning.
Gee, that would be impressive if there weren't so vastly, many more than a billion devices using the 3.5mm jack efficiently and reliably (including the majority of the items you mention above with lightning connectors).

Lightning is just the latest proprietary connector Apple will abandon in the near future, after they've sucked all the profit out of it. Where are all those 30-pin enthusiasts? They sold 300+ Million of those (you're not counting those in that "billion" iDevices are you?).

"Maker of the most 'popular' headphones in the world" (most of which use a 3.5mm jack, by the way), well maybe, but most of those came in the box as a cheap accessory, not something people went out of their way to actually buy (I've got at least a few pairs I just threw in a drawer when they showed up). I'm sure somebody has actually bought a replacement pair, I just don't know anyone who has. Chevy used to sell the most cars in the world, who cares? Let me know when the maker of the "best" headphones in the world (or even a maker that charges more than $20), decides they have to throw a lightning connector in the box, to meet the overwhelming demand.

I'll be listening for that announcement on my 3.5mm headphones, so I can probably only wait for a couple of decades or so to hear the news, still that'll be long after all those recently purchased "Magical" Bluetooth earbud's and their dead batteries have been lost or forgotten.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.