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Gee, that would be impressive if there weren't so vastly, many more than a billion devices using the 3.5mm jack efficiently and reliably (including the majority of the items you mention above with lightning connectors).

Lightning is just the latest proprietary connector Apple will abandon in the near future, after they've sucked all the profit out of it. Where are all those 30-pin enthusiasts? They sold 300+ Million of those (you're not counting those in that "billion" iDevices are you?).

"Maker of the most 'popular' headphones in the world" (most of which use a 3.5mm jack, by the way), well maybe, but most of those came in the box as a cheap accessory, not something people went out of their way to actually buy (I've got at least a few pairs I just threw in a drawer when they showed up). I'm sure somebody has actually bought a replacement pair, I just don't know anyone who has. Chevy used to sell the most cars in the world, who cares? Let me know when the maker of the "best" headphones in the world (or even a maker that charges more than $20), decides they have to throw a lightning connector in the box, to meet the overwhelming demand.

I'll be listening for that announcement on my 3.5mm headphones, so I can probably only wait for a couple of decades or so to hear the news, still that'll be long after all those recently purchased "Magical" Bluetooth earbud's and their dead batteries have been lost or forgotten.


You know you've jumped the shark when you are trying to convince yourself that a billion lightning connected devices, and no that doesn't include 30 pin devices, is not a significant number. The beauty is you can, thanks to Apple's free adapter, You can put on your 3.5 mm headphones, turn the volume on high and close your eyes while you imagine a world where the 3.5 plug will always be king, along with floppy drives, and cd rom drives and Ethernet ports. The over 200 million, yes, let that sink in, people who buy the iPhone 7 this coming year will be moving on to the wonderful world of Apple wireless and Lightning.
 
You've got too much wrong information to unpack it all, but I'll point you to further reading on this topic so you'll understand the benefits of lightning headphones and why it has succeeded to the tune of almost a billion, let that sink in, yes a billion lightning connected devices in a short period of time. And then you'll understand why the company that makes the most popular headphones in the world is ditching the old 3.5mm plug for Lightning.

Please, enlighten me. Apple has the clout to make something like this happen. Nothing more.

The only thing that comes from this transition is the potential to drive noise isolating headphones without an additional battery; an entirely niche use. Everything else in that article you cite is fluff if not outright wrong.
 
Please, enlighten me. Apple has the clout to make something like this happen. Nothing more.

The only thing that comes from this transition is the potential to drive noise isolating headphones without an additional battery; an entirely niche use. Everything else in that article you cite is fluff if not outright wrong.


I can't do all the research for you, but I can tell you that sending power to any number of devices is far from niche, and I will give you a hint to get you started, research "bi-directional digital transmission and Lightning ". That's just one other major benefit-but it should open your mind and ease your soul that this is going to be good for you, and pull your spirits up. Good luck
 
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I can't do all your research for you, and sending power to any number of devcea is far from niche, but I will give you a hint to get you started, research "bi-durectiional digital transmission and Lightning ". That's just one, but it should open your mind

As a member at head-fi for over a decade now, and as someone who has been using external DAC's from practically the first moment Apple made it possible in iOS I well understand what that means. I've read the technical papers that describe the lightning protocol in full. And you?

In practice, for the average user, it means nothing but inconvenience. A digital connection means nothing when the conversion is merely moved one step up in the chain. It's just a buzzword to get people like you excited. You'll notice that Apple has made no claims about improved sound quality.
 
As a member at head-fi for over a decade now, and as someone who has been using external DAC's from practically the first moment Apple made it possible in iOS I well understand what that means. I've read the technical papers that describe the lightning protocol in full. And you?

In practice, for the average user, it means nothing but inconvenience. A digital connection means nothing when the conversion is merely moved one step up in the chain. It's just a buzzword to get people like you excited. You'll notice that Apple has made no claims about improved sound quality.


Come on, put your pride aside. You are obviously an intelligent person. You have to see the potential in bi-directional digital information flow from the Lightning plug. You can't seriously dismiss the benefits of being able to send power up that cable as worthless. And the only reason Apple didn't spend time on the audio quality benefits is because they wanted to keep the focus on their revolutionary new wireless products.
 
Come on, put your pride aside. You are obviously an intelligent person. You have to see the potential in bi-directional digital information flow from the Lightning plug. You can't seriously dismiss the benefits of being able to send power up that cable as worthless. And the only reason Apple didn't spend time on the audio quality benefits is because they wanted to keep the focus on their revolutionary new wireless products.

I see that there are some potential benefits, however I also see that for the vast majority of owners, all they want out of a headphone jack is the ability to easily use it without any frustration. Lightning completely fails in this test. There may be a billion lightning devices, but there aren't more than a few tens of millions of lightning headsets compared to the tens or hundreds of billions of 3.5mm devices that are still completely functional. I have an iPhone 7. I've been using the dongle. It's a PITA even though the sound is completely acceptable. I have at least 5 sets of headphones I use on a regular basis. If I don't want to be keeping track of a dongle every time I use my headphones, I have to buy 4 more dongles for no real gain. My wife rotates through 4-5 sets of included earbuds she's accumulated over the years. She doesn't even want a new phone because of the lack of a headphone jack.

Lightning isn't the answer. A few companies will build lightning headsets for a specific purpose, but they could have done so while keeping the headphone jack. Wireless will probably be the answer, but Apple removed the jack before getting fully on-board with wireless. If that was their future, a set should have been included in the box, that charged via lightning, allowed listening over that lightning cable. That would have pushed the world forward. A proprietary connection for a headphone is just causing consumer confusion and frustration.
 
Honestly it's this logic that sounds flawed to me. Why should a 'superior' technology in this case not succeed on its own merits? The simple answer is because it doesn't actually bring anything better to the table. Once you add these new chips and licensing fees to every headphone sold with iPhone compatibility, the best possible scenario you can hope for is that the sound quality doesn't end up markedly worse than the reliably good chips Apple has always used. To think that it's going to get better when 3rd party manufacturers now need to spend extra money installing extra components in their headphones at a given budget is just lunacy.

Superior technology is a universal digital connector like usb-c, not propietary. Apple is wrong going propietary for headphones, they should have gone universal. Now we'll have fragmented headphones all over the place, adapters required everywhere including Apple's own Macbooks.
 
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You know you've jumped the shark when you are trying to convince yourself that a billion lightning connected devices, and no that doesn't include 30 pin devices, is not a significant number. The beauty is you can, thanks to Apple's free adapter, You can put on your 3.5 mm headphones, turn the volume on high and close your eyes while you imagine a world where the 3.5 plug will always be king, along with floppy drives, and cd rom drives and Ethernet ports. The over 200 million, yes, let that sink in, people who buy the iPhone 7 this coming year will be moving on to the wonderful world of Apple wireless and Lightning.
It's king till everybody adopts Lightning (or USB-C), so don't hold your breath.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves, nobody outside of Apple knows the sales numbers yet. Even at 200 Million, you mean around 7% of smart phones, and they sure haven't sold that many since last week.

"Wonderful World", save that crap for Disneyland and people who don't know marketing when they see it.

Once again, the floppy disc argument is not valid, so quit beating that dead horse by conflating the two.
 
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It's king till everybody adopts Lightning (or USB-C), so don't hold your breath.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves, nobody outside of Apple knows the sales numbers yet. Even at 200 Million, you mean around 7% of smart phones, and they sure haven't sold that many since last week.

"Wonderful World", save that crap for Disneyland and people who don't know marketing when they see it.

Once again, the floppy disc argument is not valid, so quit beating that dead horse by conflating the two.


I appreciate you bolstering the argument that the 3.5mm plug is not long for this world, which is the point of this thread.
You are correct that when Apple puts out over 200 million lightning headphones this year, plus the millions of other headphone companies, and with Intel calling for its replacement as well, don't place your money on ye olde plug.
 
I appreciate you bolstering the argument that the 3.5mm plug is not long for this world, which is the point of this thread.
You are correct that when Apple puts out over 200 million lightning headphones this year, plus the millions of other headphone companies, and with Intel calling for its replacement as well, don't place your money on ye olde plug.
Are you just responding to your self?

I suppose that way you can agree with somebody.

Since you're insistent on that 200 Million, cite your sources. And where did you come up with "Millions" of headphone manufacturers? Cite your sources on that as well. If you just want to make stuff up, run for president.

Intel certainly isn't calling for lightning.

Let me know when the majority of headphone jacks are lightning.
 
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Are you just responding to your self?

I suppose that way you can agree with somebody.

Since you're insistent on that 200 Million, cite your sources. And where did you come up with "Millions" of headphone manufacturers? Cite your sources on that as well. If you just want to make stuff up, run for president.

Intel certainly isn't calling for lightning.

Let me know when the majority of headphone jacks are lightning.


Thanks for the catch. Typo- should be "millions from" not "millions of." Analyst estimates and previous sales are all over the web as far as sales, easy to use DuckDuckGo for that. You keep trying to change the subject, which is the future of the 3.5mm plug. Intel is calling for its replacement. Apple has replaced it. If you can't see the relevance to two of the largest and most influential tech companies in the world calling for the replacement of the aged 3.5mm plug, you are putting blinders on. That's your option and why Apple is giving you a free adapter, so you can close your eyes and pretend the 3.5mm plug will live on forever.
 
Thanks for the catch. Typo- should be "millions from" not "millions of." Analyst estimates and previous sales are all over the web as far as sales, easy to use DuckDuckGo for that. You keep trying to change the subject, which is the future of the 3.5mm plug. Intel is calling for its replacement. Apple has replaced it. If you can't see the relevance to two of the largest and most influential tech companies in the world calling for the replacement of the aged 3.5mm plug, you are putting blinders on. That's your option and why Apple is giving you a free adapter, so you can close your eyes and pretend the 3.5mm plug will live on forever.
Clearly, you're incapable of a rational discussion.

Cite a specific source, the number is yours, back it up. If it's just an estimate, than don't pretend it's a hard number. Typical for an Apple Sycophant.

Apple hasn't replaced it, even on the iPhone 7 there's a 3.5mm jack on the adapter, Intel isn't promoting Apple's proprietary standard, and neither is anyone else.

In case you forgot, there are hundreds of other devices that use 3.5mm jacks. Manufacturers if those device will never adapt lightning.
 
Clearly, you're incapable of a rational discussion.

Cite a specific source, the number is yours, back it up. If it's just an estimate, than don't pretend it's a hard number. Typical for an Apple Sycophant.

Apple hasn't replaced it, even on the iPhone 7 there's a 3.5mm jack on the adapter, Intel isn't promoting Apple's proprietary standard, and neither is anyone else.

In case you forgot, there are hundreds of other devices that use 3.5mm jacks. Manufacturers if those device will never adapt lightning.


Larry, it's clear you are getting worked up and need some rest, so I will let you to take that free 2 inch adapter Apple gave you and put it on the end of the 3.5mm plug on your headphones and lie down and listen to some music. As you do, ponder whether if we are talking about the sales of the iPhone 7 over the next 12 months, whether that number would have to be an estimate or whether we would have "a hard number." Take care. Time to move on.
 
Superior technology is a universal digital connector like usb-c, not propietary. Apple is wrong going propietary for headphones, they should have gone universal. Now we'll have fragmented headphones all over the place, adapters required everywhere including Apple's own Macbooks.

I wouldn't exactly call USB-C superior technology. It's certainly overkill for audio, and it's a fragile little connector prone to electrical problems from poorly regulated vendors. Moreover, people are going to need adapters no matter what replaces the 3.5mm jack, and they're going to need them for many, many years to come, so it sort of doesn't matter what kind of adapter a person needs. In the meantime, wireless is going to be pushed as the ultimate "universal" replacement for the 3.5mm jack in consumer audio (be it Bluetooth, or WiFi, or something yet to be invented), and by the time I'm able to actually buy a USB-C cable at 7-11 at 3AM, wireless will have likely arrived. Likewise, the iPhone likely won't have a port at all, Lightning, or otherwise.

So Apple had two choices -- switch to USB-C, a "standard" that has virtually zero marketshare at the moment, and force half-a-billion of their customers to switch from Lightning (a connector they just replaced all of their 30-pin connectors with 4 years ago) to USB-C, something that is virtually proprietary as it is not currently widely supported (not to mention expensive) -- and at the same time drop the headphone jack requiring the purchase and use of adapters, or new headphones.

Or continue using Lightning, a well supported "standard", for another four years; as USB-C slowly grows to market saturation, by which time Apple will have gone totally wireless completely eliminating the need for Lightning or USB-C on the iPhone, and only inconvenience the customers of the new iPhones with the necessity of using adapters, or buying new headphones.

Of course when Apple goes totally wireless, so will Samsung and all the other Android manufacturers, completely eliminating a need for USB-C in mobile devices too.

In the meantime, I expect Macs will get a Lightning port, and USB-C (or something else) will be there to support a wired digital industry standard going forward, while wireless will become the consumer standard.
 
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I wouldn't exactly call USB-C superior technology. It's certainly overkill for audio, and it's a fragile little connector prone to electrical problems from poorly regulated vendors. Moreover, people are going to need adapters no matter what replaces the 3.5mm jack, and they're going to need them for many, many years to come, so it sort of doesn't matter what kind of adapter a person needs. In the meantime, wireless is going to be pushed as the ultimate "universal" replacement for the 3.5mm jack in consumer audio (be it Bluetooth, or WiFi, or something yet to be invented), and by the time I'm able to actually buy a USB-C cable at 7-11 at 3AM, wireless will have likely arrived. Likewise, the iPhone likely won't have a port at all, Lightning, or otherwise.

So Apple had two choices -- switch to USB-C, a "standard" that has virtually zero marketshare at the moment, and force half-a-billion of their customers to switch from Lightning (a connector they just replaced all of their 30-pin connectors with 4 years ago) to USB-C, something that is virtually proprietary as it is not currently widely supported (not to mention expensive) -- and at the same time drop the headphone jack requiring the purchase and use of adapters, or new headphones.

Or continue using Lightning, a well supported "standard", for another four years; as USB-C slowly grows to market saturation, by which time Apple will have gone totally wireless completely eliminating the need for Lightning or USB-C on the iPhone, and only inconvenience the customers of the new iPhones with the necessity of using adapters, or buying new headphones.

Of course when Apple goes totally wireless, so will Samsung and all the other Android manufacturers, completely eliminating a need for USB-C in mobile devices too.

In the meantime, I expect Macs will get a Lightning port, and USB-C (or something else) will be there to support a wired digital industry standard going forward, while wireless will become the consumer standard.


Well said Mac.
 
I wouldn't exactly call USB-C superior technology. It's certainly overkill for audio, and it's a fragile little connector prone to electrical problems from poorly regulated vendors. Moreover, people are going to need adapters no matter what replaces the 3.5mm jack, and they're going to need them for many, many years to come, so it sort of doesn't matter what kind of adapter a person needs. In the meantime, wireless is going to be pushed as the ultimate "universal" replacement for the 3.5mm jack in consumer audio (be it Bluetooth, or WiFi, or something yet to be invented), and by the time I'm able to actually buy a USB-C cable at 7-11 at 3AM, wireless will have likely arrived. Likewise, the iPhone likely won't have a port at all, Lightning, or otherwise.

So Apple had two choices -- switch to USB-C, a "standard" that has virtually zero marketshare at the moment, and force half-a-billion of their customers to switch from Lightning (a connector they just replaced all of their 30-pin connectors with 4 years ago) to USB-C, something that is virtually proprietary as it is not currently widely supported (not to mention expensive) -- and at the same time drop the headphone jack requiring the purchase and use of adapters, or new headphones.

Or continue using Lightning, a well supported "standard", for another four years; as USB-C slowly grows to market saturation, by which time Apple will have gone totally wireless completely eliminating the need for Lightning or USB-C on the iPhone, and only inconvenience the customers of the new iPhones with the necessity of using adapters, or buying new headphones.

Of course when Apple goes totally wireless, so will Samsung and all the other Android manufacturers, completely eliminating a need for USB-C in mobile devices too.

In the meantime, I expect Macs will get a Lightning port, and USB-C (or something else) will be there to support a wired digital industry standard going forward, while wireless will become the consumer standard.

Nice try trying to downplay usb-c, but guess what? Apple is already using usb-c in the new MacBook line and is rumored to use it for new macs. It makes 0 sense to put a lightning connector on a MacBook when you can use the universal usb-c. Going propietary on headphones is mostly profit-driven and just wrong.
 
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Nice try trying to downplay usb-c, but guess what? Apple is already using usb-c in the new MacBook line and is rumored to use it for new macs. It makes 0 sense to put a lightning connector on a MacBook when you can use the universal usb-c. Going propietary on headphones is mostly profit-driven and just wrong.

You're not thinking about it like a customer who just bought a new iPhone 7 and can't use his Lightning headphones on his new MacBook, without an adapter -- which at the moment, doesn't even exist.

Not only will Lightning add convenience to the customer using Lightning headphones, but it adds a dedicated charging port leaving all the USB-C slots open, and in the case of the Retina MacBook, gives them an option to have a second USB 3 data port.

Apple already uses USB-C, and despite that, if I had to bet I could find a USB-C cable at my 5,000 employee company, I'd probably lose that bet. USB-C is going to take years to become the dominate connector, if it doesn't change into something else before it reaches market saturation.
 
A manufacturer of quality audio devices can now embed a better DAC in their device than was previously inside the phone. They couldn't do that before. THAT's the argument. It is unrelated to the throw-in adapter.

And why could they not do that before??
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This just means, if we don't like Apple's DAC, we can simply buy an adapter from a different company that has a better built in DAC.

We have MORE options than ever before.

No, you've had the option for years. But apparently you were satisfied enough with the internal audio to not seek out other options.
 
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Larry, it's clear you are getting worked up and need some rest, so I will let you to take that free 2 inch adapter Apple gave you and put it on the end of the 3.5mm plug on your headphones and lie down and listen to some music. As you do, ponder whether if we are talking about the sales of the iPhone 7 over the next 12 months, whether that number would have to be an estimate or whether we would have "a hard number." Take care. Time to move on.
In other words, "you got nothing".
 
You're not thinking about it like a customer who just bought a new iPhone 7 and can't use his Lightning headphones on his new MacBook, without an adapter -- which at the moment, doesn't even exist.

It's troublesome to see how lightly you take the fact Apple is imposing a proprietary connector unnecessarily and how it'll fragment the world, because the fact is there will be a ton of usb-c headphones for android (and macbooks), ton of lightning for iphone and ton of 3.5mm, all of this waste will generate even more tons of adapters, expenses and inconveniences.

Not only will Lightning add convenience to the customer using Lightning headphones, but it adds a dedicated charging port leaving all the USB-C slots open, and in the case of the Retina MacBook, gives them an option to have a second USB 3 data port.

Lets assume Apple adds that lightning port to a Macbook. Do you think it's free? Of course not, that port takes up space, about the same space and logic board requirements as a usb-c port, it's not substantially smaller or less demanding.

Having said that, suppose Apple limits the macbook to just 2 ports, would you rather have 2 usb-c ports, or 1 usb-c and 1 lightning on a macbook which would be useless for anything else but lightning headphones which not everyone would have anyway? 2 usb-c ports would be far more versatile, you could use to charge, to output video, to connect external storage, headphones etc. A universal connector is ideal.

Apple already uses USB-C, and despite that, if I had to bet I could find a USB-C cable at my 5,000 employee company, I'd probably lose that bet. USB-C is going to take years to become the dominate connector, if it doesn't change into something else before it reaches market saturation.

You know what? Usb 1 was also hard to find back in 1998, yet Apple led the industry with that universal connector and it became popular. Apple could have done the same with usb-c easily today, since it's has far even greater influence than before, but they didn't in part because going proprietary is more profitable.
 
It's troublesome to see how lightly you take the fact Apple is imposing a proprietary connector unnecessarily and how it'll fragment the world, because the fact is there will be a ton of usb-c headphones for android (and macbooks), ton of lightning for iphone and ton of 3.5mm, all of this waste will generate even more tons of adapters, expenses and inconveniences.

Sorry you feel that way. By the time there are a ton of USB-C headphones, I'll be using wireless, and laughing at everybody who's still plugging into their equipment. There will be tons of adapters regardless of what Apple does. And still more adapters once USB-C gets replaced by something better.

Lets assume Apple adds that lightning port to a Macbook. Do you think it's free? Of course not, that port takes up space, about the same space and logic board requirements as a usb-c port, it's not substantially smaller or less demanding.

Having said that, suppose Apple limits the macbook to just 2 ports, would you rather have 2 usb-c ports, or 1 usb-c and 1 lightning on a macbook which would be useless for anything else but lightning headphones which not everyone would have anyway? 2 usb-c ports would be far more versatile, you could use to charge, to output video, to connect external storage, headphones etc. A universal connector is ideal.

Lightning is tiny. The room Apple needs to add Lightning couldn't be replaced with anything else they're rumored to drop, except USB-C. The MBP is rumored to have 4 USB-C ports. I'm not sure what 5 would do for them. With Lightning, I can use my iPhone cable to charge my Mac. Once cable, one power supply, all of my Apple products. The Retina MacBook only has one data port. Apple isn't going to add a second one, they're going to add a "headphone jack", that can be used in a variety of ways, as I outlined above and you just ignored. In addition, adding Lightning to the MacBook could also make all Lightning adapters instantly compatible with MacBooks meaning iOS customers have even more incentive to upgrade to a new MacBook since they can use equipment they've already invested in, rather than buy brand new, hard to find, expensive USB-C equipment.

You know what? Usb 1 was also hard to find back in 1998, yet Apple led the industry with that universal connector and it became popular. Apple could have done the same with usb-c easily today, since it's has far even greater influence than before, but they didn't in part because going proprietary is more profitable.

Assuming that is that Apple is convinced as you are that USB-C is going to save the world. I'm not. And in the process I'd just as soon not have to turn all of my Lightning cables and accessories into e-waste, or buy a box full of adapters to convert all of those cables. You're robbing Peter to pay Paul. It's not that you don't have a point, but considering that over half-a-billion iOS customers exist in the world currently, each with multiple Lightning cables and accessories, it's kind of a moot point. In four years, most headphones will be wireless. The quality will have improved, and the cost will have gone down, and customers will prefer the freedom they offer over old wired ones. There's your universal USB analogy.
 
The 3.5mm plug is a gold standard, there's really nothing wrong with it. But it's disgusting how Apple is trying to FORCE a change with this just so they can sell more headphones and make money through licensing the lightning port.

So what, now we need to switch over to Apple's proprietary crap just because Apple wants to? Everyone can currently use their 3.5mm jack headphones and stick them into almost any other device... WHY does Apple want to pointlessly fragment this???

The iPhone 7 DOES come with a 3.5mm jack, it's just not built into the body of the phone, but on a small dongle instead. I really don't see why everyone is screaming about this. You can continue to use all your existing headphones without any trouble at all. You're not FORCED to buy any "proprietary crap".
 
I'm pretty sure you can increase the quality of the DAC if you purchase two additional dongles and create the following configuration:

(iPhone)+(male lightning)(cord)(female 3.5mm)+(male 3.5mm)(cord)(female lightning)+(male lightning)(cord)(female 3.5mm)

This logic is fairly irrefutable, and it will most likely increase the DAC quality three fold, if not much more. You can add additional dongles if you want, but it's a bit overkill at that point. Science dictates that three dongles is the optimal number of dongles to dangle from your device.

I don't really understand why anyone is complaining. This will provide an extended headphone cord and make the user appear as if they are a technological wizard. If you don't like the appearance of the configuration, I'm sure you can find some common material at Jo-Ann Fabric, such as chainmail, to create an aesthetically pleasing cover that is both functional and protective.
 
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I'm pretty sure you can increase the quality of the DAC if you purchase two additional dongles and create the following configuration:

(iPhone)+(male lightning)(cord)(female 3.5mm)+(male 3.5mm)(cord)(female lightning)+(male lightning)(cord)(female 3.5mm)

This logic is fairly irrefutable, and it will most likely increase the DAC quality three fold, if not much more. You can add additional dongles if you want, but it's a bit overkill at that point. Science dictates that three dongles is the optimal number of dongles to dangle from your device.

I don't really understand why anyone is complaining. This will provide an extended headphone cord and make the user appear as if they are a technological wizard. If you don't like the appearance of the configuration, I'm sure you can find some common material at Jo-Ann Fabric, such as chainmail, to create an aesthetically pleasing cover that is both functional and protective.

Speaking of that, did you know that if you ZIP a file, then RAR that ZIP file, then ZIP that RAR file, and continue this process you will eventually end up with a super-compressed file that takes up only a single byte!
 
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