I just want to point out something that I've noticed. No one on this forum complains about the irreplaceability of RAM and battery in an iPad or iPhone. Why? Because it's always been that way. You should consider that modern laptops really aren't all that different. If you want the small form factor and light weight, you have to sacrifice accessibility. If you don't value the small form factor, Apple still sells traditional MBP's, and you can get a big clunky traditional laptop from any number of PC vendors.
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Teardowns of Late 2013 Retina MacBook Pros Reveal No Improvements in Accessibility
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Computers are designed to do domestic computing.
Do you correct people when they misuse the word "irony," as well?
No. Every car on earth is still tinkerable. The only ones that aren't are the Tesla Model S and Leafs of the world, and even there you can still overvolt the motors.
ifixit's rating is relevant as usual, as Macs are meant to be repaired by consumers
and repairing a Mac is no issue for Geniuses or Apple certified technicians
and repairing a Mac is no issue for Geniuses or Apple certified technicians
To everyone quoting me: Im not talking about wanting to replace the screen or the motherboard, Im just asking to being able to upgrade the RAM or the HDD/SDD whenever I want at a price I deem affordable. Why cant it be compatible own a Mac an being able to do this? I bought a MBP and not a MBA last year because I didnt have enough money to pay for the RAM and SDD upgrade from Apple. You need to understand that not everyone buying a Mac have enough money to pay them for that premium.
Apple hardware has always been fantastic, and rmbps are no exception.
However, I don't quite agree that people who want to tweak leave the platform, I sure didn't and don't want to. OWC's been making money off tweakers like me for a while.
But Apple seems to be moving in a direction where at least now we tweakers have to consider moving away. They seem to be on a path of convergence, where iPads and devices like it are the only device they produce. After all, the new Apple notebooks are effectively throwaway devices; after AppleCare expires, replace it, just like an iPad.
It's a shame, really, because up until they went the MBAir direction they were the easiest computers to fix, upgrade and maintain. From hard drive replacement to memory and even optical drive removal (replace with another drive), the cmbps are still the single best computers out there right now. High res screens are great (I don't miss retina on my 17" at all). One in thick is thin enough for me. Weight is good, too. Yes, lighter is nice but I'm not a weakling, and I don't hold it all the time. Only during transport does this matter. I set it down to work, and then it's weightless.
There are differing priorities among us, to be sure, and Apple has moved away from my personal preferences. Still, for what they are, rmbps are good products. It just saddens me a bit that the Apple I loved died with Steve, and the more "new" products I see from Apple, the more this is confirmed.
"I want to own a MacBook but be able to treat it like a custom-built desktop PC."
You need to understand that Macs are made for people who have enough money to pay Apple for a premium. I'm not saying that to be snotty, either; the same attitude applies to any electronics. If you can't afford something, don't buy it. Or buy an affordable model. What you did, instead, was bought whatever one you could afford, just so you could have one, and now you're here, on an unofficial Apple forum, complaining because you can't frankenstein it up.
You made an impulse purchase on a premium product that by your own admission you could barely afford.
Yes, I wish we could swap out hardware in MacBooks. It's annoying, but we can't. So either I can buy a MacBook and be happy with it, or I can buy something else.
You are right that they are tools. Part of a decision to buy a tool or not is Total Cost of Ownership. How much does it cost now, how long will it last, how much will it cost to maintain and run, how much can I sell it for.
A computer that can last longer because it can be upgraded to meet future needs will have a lower TCO. A computer that you sell in 2 years anyway will be able to sell for more because it is upgradeable, also lowering the TCO.
So I would say that it is a combination of current and future needs that you should be buying for. And considering TCO with a purchase is not turning a computer into an "investment," it's being smart with your money.
It really does grind my gears that they cannot fit a user-upgradable RAM slot in a 15 inch computer.
Well I ordered the top level Macbook Pro Retina 15". My RAM is already maxed out so its not like I can get any more of it. My hard drive is 512 SSD which is a lot for freaking SSD so that will last me a long time, I also have a couple of external drives for backups and large files. I dont see why people are trying so desperately to upgrade a laptop out of all things. As for reparability, i believe Apple charges $150 to replace the battery out of warranty? If im not mistaken windows laptop batteries sell at around $100 with 0 labour.
I don't see why people moan about a non-replacable battery these days.
In MacBooks of old, people were used to paying £99 for a battery which would do 300 cycles and be pretty much dead. This one will do 1000 cycles, and still hold a crap load of charge. If you want to replace it, it's £140 I think. Which is better value than the old batteries, and you get a new top case build in!
iFixit are just pissed because they can't sell as many Chinese pattern parts for it. They throw their toys out of the pram at every Apple product announcement. At the end of their day, the days when people repaired their own computers, etc, are over for the vast majority. I, for one, would rather have my retina MBP without a massive squeaky catch on the bottom, and the extra thickness that would entail, and the space it would remove from the battery capacity!
In MacBooks of old, people were used to paying £99 for a battery which would do 300 cycles and be pretty much dead. This one will do 1000 cycles, and still hold a crap load of charge. If you want to replace it, it's £140 I think. Which is better value than the old batteries, and you get a new top case build in!
iFixit are just pissed because they can't sell as many Chinese pattern parts for it. They throw their toys out of the pram at every Apple product announcement. At the end of their day, the days when people repaired their own computers, etc, are over for the vast majority. I, for one, would rather have my retina MBP without a massive squeaky catch on the bottom, and the extra thickness that would entail, and the space it would remove from the battery capacity!
They try to as much as is fairly possible though.
For someone who doesn't know that much about tech, it would be difficult to get around their walls without 3rd party advice.
I gave up on it. I'm convinced that I have bad ram on my iPad 1, causing a disgusting amount of crashing. It's the reason I won't be buying another iPad. Phones are a different story.
Wow can't even reply to this. Just to clarify: I bought a MPB because I know I can upgrade both the RAM and HDD whenever I want. Period.
Aside from the 13in, they don't (unless refurbished, which is the only way I buy
).I cannot get a 1 inch thick, aluminum laptop from a PC vendor, that has Apple's brilliant, irreplaceable trackpad and runs OS X.
If (I apologize ahead of time) we use Steve Jobs analogy of cars (iPads) vs trucks (full-on Computers) post-pc era deal, then the rmbps are the equivalent of an El Camino. Not quite a car, but not quite a truck either. The problem is, that if I need a truck, Apple stopped building it. So all my spare parts and equipment (software, peripherals) don't really work anymore.
And while I can always move to the competition, that'll require a bit of adjustment too (the shifter is not on the same place, not the same gas mileage, etc).
So in the end, its good for Apple and consumers that prefer their philosophy (most people, I admit). But for us that came to rely on Apple, well, it sucks a bit. It seems like Apple has shifted completely (focused, perhaps?) towards a different type of user: non-technical users and letting go of the rest.
Just curious, what is a "cMBP"? Pre-unibody?
It's a shame that the MBP itself has moved so far away from Pro functionality. SD instead of CF slot, no ExpressCard slot anymore, no 17" model, no user-upgradable ram or SSD, no replaceable battery. The discontinuation of the Xserve and the 3-year gap between Mac Pro updates was really killer to me though.
My car cost less than my computer and it is neither of those things. It isn't some crappy "entry level" Toyota either. It had 195k when I bought it, yes, but it has GM's supercharged 3.8 V6 so it'll be good for at least another 100k. Oh, and it's near mint. Just gotta know what to look for
It's only one data point, and correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Mavericks support a greater history of hardware than the usual OS update? In the keynote, at least, they made a point of it. Going back to 2007 makes 6 years, which seems to be beyond even the outside range of hold-outs.
Do you mean that I can sell my upgradable Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc. notebooks for more money than MacBook Pros (or Airs) in the secondary market?
Yippee!
what on earth are you talking about? how does building the ultimate in powerful slim computers at the price of user-repairability have anything to do w/ vendor lock in?
normal people dont repair their notebooks. ever. im a veteran software dev and ive never repaired any of my notebooks. ever. i had a wifi radio go bad once and i brought it in to have it them fix it, because my time is valuable to me. there is no way my family members or neighbors would do anything different. apple is a mass market consumer electronics company...thats their target market. not repair enthusiasts.
We don't know what we want.
These huge multi-nationals and these brands all create a demand, a hype and a buzz. They compete with each other alone, regardless of sales and we still think we control their behaviours. We're not getting it folks.
If these tear downs are becoming more difficult, imagine for a moment the "recycling process" for these 'things', remember that great documentary Manufactured Landscapes, with those Chinese kids picking precious metals etc out of the toxic tech dump, leaching toxins into the water? Ya, that scene!
Where do you think these 'thin & light' gadgets go when so many of us just toss them out rather than properly disposing of them, but, how do we really know that this giant brand name of a fruit emblem company is honest? Sure, they just have their environmentally friendly list at the end of each of their product presentations on their slides, big deal!
We don't really know, but these tear downs are very revealing indeed.
Thank you.
These huge multi-nationals and these brands all create a demand, a hype and a buzz. They compete with each other alone, regardless of sales and we still think we control their behaviours. We're not getting it folks.
If these tear downs are becoming more difficult, imagine for a moment the "recycling process" for these 'things', remember that great documentary Manufactured Landscapes, with those Chinese kids picking precious metals etc out of the toxic tech dump, leaching toxins into the water? Ya, that scene!
Where do you think these 'thin & light' gadgets go when so many of us just toss them out rather than properly disposing of them, but, how do we really know that this giant brand name of a fruit emblem company is honest? Sure, they just have their environmentally friendly list at the end of each of their product presentations on their slides, big deal!
We don't really know, but these tear downs are very revealing indeed.
Thank you.
I'm talking big picture - if someone wants to tinker, they'll find ways, but for the most part manufacturers are making it more difficult (and less needed) to make changes to cars, computers, etc.
This means more than just repairs and upgradable parts now my friend, think 'outside' of the box we're all trapped in for a moment.
IT IS ABOUT extending the life of your gadgets folks, if you don't care and you feel entitled and have all the cash in the world to spend on these things - that is your choice, but this whole thing is about being able to extend the life of your gear, if you can't even do that and the companies of these gadget things don't even give you the choice to do so, there is something I think REALLY WRONG with this picture yeah?????
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