Teardowns of Late 2013 Retina MacBook Pros Reveal No Improvements in Accessibility

[mdelvecchio]

So in the end, its good for Apple and consumers that prefer their philosophy (most people, I admit). But for us that came to rely on Apple, well, it sucks a bit. It seems like Apple has shifted completely (focused, perhaps?) towards a different type of user: non-technical users and letting go of the rest.

apple hasnt shifted at all. apple has *always* marketed its desktops as computers "for the rest of us" (non-technical users). always. maybe youre too young to remember, but go back and visit the original mac history. jobs was famous for removing ports, slots, accessible cases, etc...

see www.folklore.org.

 

[rwarren1]

Well, I would buy the new 15" retina MacBook Pro in a heartbeat. My only problem is my 2010 15" MBP works so well, it is hard to justify it. Never had a problem with any Apple device (and we have close to 20 counting computers, iPads, iPhones, iPods). I got an iBook G4 for my daughter when she was in 1st grade. She is a freshman in high school now and that machine runs perfectly, never having anything done to it. Also, it was an Apple refurb when I bought it for her. Apple computers are without a doubt the most reliable computers I have ever used and I go back to the Radio Shack Model 3 days.

 

[mdelvecchio]

Ram should always be upgradeable.

how do you upgrade the RAM on your ipad? on your car's in-dash touchscreen head unit? your ipod?

 

[Jibbajabba]

i am more pissed at the soldered in RAM rather than glued in battery.

One reason I don't have one yet as I need the 16GB of RAM but cannot justify the premium just yet - would be nice to be able to upgrade but I guess these days are over ..

 

[melendezest]

It's going to get more intense, though. When OS X 10.13 is released, I doubt it will be released for this current crop of hardware. That's how Apple will force you to upgrade.

Hahahaha, yes. Exactly. But since everything goes in circles and given iOS 7's new, colorful, retro (and apparently popular) DOS/Win 95 look for menus and interface elements, you may not want to upgrade.

So, I'll be rocking old, upgradeable (or rather, maintainable) hardware with an old, but better looking (to me, at least) OS, until the 3D holograms come in or skeuomorphism comes back in style.

 

[Kimokun]

Is there a reason to have the RAM welded other then to make us pay more to apple?

 

[Jcknows0]

I've ordered one and I do have to say it frustrates me that the battery is glued in as there is no way at all I'll be able to service it myself requiring me to take it to the closest Apple store which is miles away as Apple do not offer shipping for battery replacement in the UK which is unbelievable to me.

Be fun replacing the battery in 3 years, not.

Why not just upgrade before every 3 years then. Resale value will be a lot better anyway especially if you purchase AppleCare

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Is there a reason to have the RAM welded other then to make us pay more to apple?

To make it thinner and lighter. If you've seen the inside its pretty cramp and there and popup memory banks just didn't fit.

 

[Kimokun]

Why not just upgrade before every 3 years then. Resale value will be a lot better anyway especially if you purchase AppleCare

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To make it thinner and lighter. If you've seen the inside its pretty cramp and there and popup memory banks just didn't fit.

Ah that makes sense, thanks.

 

[FirstNTenderbit]

If you're a member of this site the chances are you are trying to find out about the next latest and greatest creation from Apple and when it might arrive. Some of you, perhaps like me will have money in hand to buy said newest item and your current computer doesn't lat longer than 2 years because you sell it.

With the above in mind do you really keep your Apple goods for so long that you require to alter it yourselves or are you like me in that if and when it's outdated or there is a small chance it's going wrong, you sell it and buy the next thing and move on?

I'm just curious, I'm not trolling but since Apple residual resale values hold up, is there really a need to be changing the computer yourself now?

For me, the only upgrades I do to my computer is to replace the entire thing. So long as i'm in a position to do that, I will.

I think one of the best things about MR is the divergent opinions expressed here. It's why I keep coming back. Some opinions expressed on this site change my mind while other opinions reinforce the ideas I already had. Your opinions on this subject reinforce mine.

It seems your sole focus is money. Nothing wrong with that if that's your thing. Lot's of people have money but aren't motivated by it. Some, for example, are more motivated by discovery, by curiosity, by whatever else that motivates them. Some people like to tinker, upgrade, and improve. That's why there are aftermarkets for computers, cars, and a whole host of other things. There are a multitude of reasons for people to want the ability to upgrade the things they own. One of the coolest thing about forum members here is I see them mention their kit that is 4-7-10 years old and still running. Running why? A lot of the time it's because they can upgrade it. There's a certain sense of pride in being able to "do". I think, at least for me, that's why people want the ability to upgrade. Whipping out a credit card and "just buying" because it's new... I guess you can be proud of that too.

Before someone says "Go get a PC then", please don't. If that's your rejoinder, my comment was wasted on you.

 

[RDeckard]

I just want to point out something that I've noticed. No one on this forum complains about the irreplaceability of RAM and battery in an iPad or iPhone. Why? Because it's always been that way. You should consider that modern laptops really aren't all that different. If you want the small form factor and light weight, you have to sacrifice accessibility. If you don't value the small form factor, Apple still sells traditional MBP's, and you can get a big clunky traditional laptop from any number of PC vendors.

Another thing to point out is that whiners are... simply whiners. They want everything, not understanding there are compromises for everything. So, no... one cannot have everything (smaller, faster, cheaper, larger capacity, etc. -- and all for free!).

If you don't like something don't buy it and get something else. It's that simple.

Windows OS and systems that run it don't work for me or my business -- and that's perfectly OK.

But, you sure the hell won't find me on any Windows forum bitching and moaning about Windows, how it doesn't have this or that. Same thing for Android, Windows Phone, BB, whatever. They just don't work for me, or not what I prefer, and that's OK. You won't catch me on those respective forums berating them (the OSs or the companies that make products with those OSs).

I simply don't have time for nonsense like that.

 

[melendezest]

apple hasnt shifted at all. apple has *always* marketed its desktops as computers "for the rest of us" (non-technical users). always. maybe youre too young to remember, but go back and visit the original mac history. jobs was famous for removing ports, slots, accessible cases, etc...

see www.folklore.org.

That's true. They always have. But that included maintaining the computer. They always went out of their way to make it easy for non-techies to have access to internals until now. So in essence, their definition of "the rest of us" has evolved, I guess.

 

[garylapointe]

Yes, if you like paying $1000 a year for owning a computer -- and having to pay 3 years in advance. If your RAM fails in the 4th year, you're lost.

If you're going to assuming 4 years on the soldered RAM failing you could just as easily assume some other soldered component could fail causing the same level of problem...

You've got to assume to make these computers smaller and smaller they're going to get harder and harder to fix. Just plan on it. Replacable parts take more space (for the connectors if nothing else).

Repairs: In my experience (technology director managing 1000+ computers in schools) most non-moving parts fail in the first 30 days (50% and most of that is out of the box or the first few days) and 40% over the next year and 9.5% over the next 18 months.

If anything after a few years, we're running around reseating memory that's gotten loose.

That's my non-scientific data and I've really rounded those numbers way down. (It feels more like it's 95% in the first year.)

Gary

 

[GSPice]

I want to see them tear down the model that has a dGPU.

 

[dBeats]

i'm an engineer (not electrical though), and when i look at pics like that above...it's really quite astounding the amount of brilliant hardware engineering that went into that laptop.

i look at my $375 Acer i've been using since 2011...and i laugh lol. but hey it works haha

Same here. Reminds me of the packing density of submarines and space craft.

On the topic of replaceable batteries. Ask yourself, what is more environmentally friendly. You buying another battery and throwing out your old one, or you getting your laptop serviced by Apple and they actually dispose of the battery properly. iFixit is way off base with their march against replaceable batteries. But then again they want to stay in business selling you DIY kits.

 

[melendezest]

I think one of the best things about MR is the divergent opinions expressed here. It's why I keep coming back. Some opinions expressed on this site change my mind while other opinions reinforce the ideas I already had. Your opinions on this subject reinforce mine.

It seems your sole focus is money. Nothing wrong with that if that's your thing. Lot's of people have money but aren't motivated by it. Some, for example, are more motivated by discovery, by curiosity, by whatever else that motivates them. Some people like to tinker, upgrade, and improve. That's why there are aftermarkets for computers, cars, and a whole host of other things. There are a multitude of reasons for people to want the ability to upgrade the things they own. One of the coolest thing about forum members here is I see them mention their kit that is 4-7-10 years old and still running. Running why? A lot of the time it's because they can upgrade it. There's a certain sense of pride in being able to "do". I think, at least for me, that's why people want the ability to upgrade. Whipping out a credit card and "just buying" because it's new... I guess you can be proud of that too.

Before someone says "Go get a PC then", please don't. If that's your rejoinder, my comment was wasted on you.

Ah, well said. We're not whining, like another poster said (well, some are). The exchange of knowledge is a beautiful thing.

And yes, while I don't think I'd like to build my own PC, I do like to maximize my Mac's life. That's what attracted me to Apple, because I loved the aesthetics, the elegance, both inside and out, and the ease which Apple enabled "tinkerability". They kept making it easier and easier to access things inside their computers, until iOS and the MB Air. Then they suddenly stopped doing it.

To me the change is the software equivalent of removing the Terminal from OSX. Yes, you can do things GUI style (easier) , but there are users out there that want to play in the command line. Just leave it in, dammit.

This is more of an observation than a complaint, despite the fact that I fall on the losing side of Apple's philosophy. But the shift did occur, and dropping the "Computer" part of their name was a good indicator (I didn't think of it at the time, but many saw this coming).

So yes, sacrifices must be made in the interest of thinness, lightness, etc.

But forgive us for mourning the death of the Apple of old, and for being a bit miffed at the fact that a company with so much money and resources cannot keep us (now) niche users happy with hardware we can play with.

 

[Millah]

You'd think it would make more sense for Apple to make these machines user serviceable. If users can just buy a new battery and replace it, Apple doesn't have to waste their tech's time doing battery replacements when they could be doing something more substantial that the user can't/won't do, like motherboard or display swaps.

Not to mention warranty repairs! If the machines are easy to service by the user, they're even more easy to service by techs. A battery replacement would take two minutes instead of 30.

Reducing the amount of wasted man-hours in service departments is supposedly a big deal for most companies. Either Apple has a REALLY GOOD REASON, technically, for designing the machines this way, or there is some factor I'm not aware of. I know for certain they're not idiots!

Its very simple why they have designed it this way. Because its simply not possible make a machine this powerful this thin and light, this much batt life, AND with a ultra-hi res display any other way. Apple doesn't just save space by getting rid of mechanical hinges/parts, they also can architect the structure inside in an entirely different way.

Compare the internal engineering to an old MBP with removable batt/HDD. Now look at this new rMBP. The pieces all fit together like a jigsaw puzzle without an inch of wasted space. The battery pack is the biggest benefit. Instead of just a single rectangular battery pack, they can more cleverly use the space inside with the several assymetric battery packs that fit inside like puzzle pieces. Its a much more clever use of internal space, which allows more battery and longer battery life.

There's tradeoffs with either approach. Apple clearly thinks the benefits of this new approach outweight the tradeoffs. And I happen to agree with them, this approach is superior for the vast majority of consumers. Most people just want to buy a PRODUCT, not a project. Geeks love to think of their needs as being indicative of the entire market, but its not. And yes, even creative professionals are also like this, not every pro is a hobbyist or geek who enjoys upgrading parts. Some have historically done it out of necessity, but to me it just seems like the benefits of what this approach allows justifies the sacrifice.

 

[Saturn1217]

Does anyone know if the new PCIe storage that the rMBPs are using is compatible with the storage in the MBAs?

There would be a higher likelihood of 3rd party SSDs for both computers if Apple is using the same SSDs on all their computers and if they decide to stick with this solution for more than a year.

I would love to be able to upgrade to a 512 SSD in my MBA after 3 years (when the warranty is over). This computer is basically perfect for me in every way but the potential for limited storage down the line.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

Is there any product in existence with a repair score of below 1?

 

[kingtj]

Yep... with laptops at least....

I've been working in computers and I.T. for over 25 years now, and it's *always* held true that 3 years or so is the "sweet spot" for reselling a used portable and buying a new one. Wait much longer than that to resell it, and it's just perceived as too outdated to get much money for it at all.

It's not about "throwing it away" though. It's about "down-cycling" it to someone who can't afford to buy a brand new machine and doesn't need anything more than what you're willing to let go of.

Seriously, you throw away a computer just after 3 years? I love Apple approach being even more oriented to the US-consumerism. Hopefully a chinese brand will replicate Apple logic boards allowing DIY upgrades.

 

[jb-net]

Cache. All modern SSD's have RAM on board as cache. Usually it's around 256MB but it looks like Apple has pushed the boat out on the cache as to maintain high write speeds on these PCIe SSDs.

That was also my first thought. But the SSD board still has its own cache. So, I don't think that's the reason for the additional 512MB RAM chip on the backside of the logic board.

 

[Poisednoise]

Great find! Yes it is bigger. Bigger fans can turn slower while moving the same amount of air. Slower fans are quiter. Also one fan is half as loud as two fans. This must be a huge improvement.

Umm, no. One fan will be approximately 3dB less loud than two (a difference of 3dB is at the threshold of what is perceptible to most people). You would need to reduce the number of fans from ten to one to have it be half as loud. The fact the fan's not the same size as before though, and that we don't know whether it will be spinning faster or slower than before, makes the whole point moot.

 

[kingtj]

Great to hear!

I tend to agree with you, although honestly, it also sounds like you've been lucky.

I, too, have owned a LOT of Apple devices over the years along with the rest of our family. Many have been rock solid and trouble free (both my 2006 and 2008 Mac Pro were left on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and never had any issues). But the last Mac Mini my wife bought less than a year ago has been back in the shop twice already. (The logic board was replaced the last time, to address some odd video problems.) The Macbook Air 13" I bought her as a Mothers' Day gift a couple years ago had a defective video card out of the box. It would randomly boot to a solid orange or blue screen and freeze up. That had to be swapped out by Apple. And I pre-ordered one of the very first 15" aluminum Intel Core Duo Macbook Pros when they first came out -- and after waiting over a month for it, I received one that was totally DOA. Wouldn't even power on.

I go back to the TRS-80 Model 3 days myself and I have to say that really, those old TRS-80's were rock solid reliable too. I know people who can still power on their old Model 3 or 4 and it works fine!

Well, I would buy the new 15" retina MacBook Pro in a heartbeat. My only problem is my 2010 15" MBP works so well, it is hard to justify it. Never had a problem with any Apple device (and we have close to 20 counting computers, iPads, iPhones, iPods). I got an iBook G4 for my daughter when she was in 1st grade. She is a freshman in high school now and that machine runs perfectly, never having anything done to it. Also, it was an Apple refurb when I bought it for her. Apple computers are without a doubt the most reliable computers I have ever used and I go back to the Radio Shack Model 3 days.

 

[WestonHarvey1]

First off let me start by saying I ordered the ultimate version of the 15 inch rMBP, but I would definitely rather have the old 15 Mbp with same updated internals and a blu ray drive. Yep I said it, blu ray!

How about a 5.25" floppy while you're at it?

 

[azentropy]

At this point in time, I don't think it is possible to have the latest and greatest technology that people want, and have it where people can open their Macs up and service them without any real problem, in regards to what you listed. There is a trade-off.

I strongly disagree. This is a marketing decision not a technical limitation.

 

[Count Blah]

Buy a "futureproof" machine with specs that will last you and you should not have to crack open these proprietary machines. The computer appliance age is here.

Ahhh, the ole "let them eat cake" approach.

Sad, when apple used to sell the very product many people are asking for, as little as 4 days ago. It's not like people are asking for something that has never been done before.