Teardowns of Late 2013 Retina MacBook Pros Reveal No Improvements in Accessibility

[chilly willy]

OK, take your time - you should be able to provide a few in a few hours.



I would hope that people that have been on these fora since 2004 would be able to distinguish trolls from real posters. Yes, things have gotten worse in the last few years but trolls exist not just in fora but in the real world too.

Also understand that just because someone holds a strong opinion, it doesn't make them a troll.

Note: I'm writing this from a 2013 cMBP that I bought over a rMBP, and I expanded the RAM and swapped the HDD for an SDD.

Just sayin.

Not speaking for the original poster, but you do see a lot of snarky remarks from folks about complaints about upgradeability etc. One post here mentioned the user would love blue ray, and dead on cue, someone else posted a query if they also wanted 5.25 floppy drive. It's become prevalent on just about every product forum on MR - though the MP forum seems to be more about debating "what is a pro user".

I think we need healthy dialogue w/o characterizing users disgruntled with the current apparent direction of Apple's computer line as somehow grumpy old people yelling "get off my lawn", or the opposing side as rich snobs who toss their rMBPS into a dumpster after a year.

I find this debate fascinating, b/c I like to tinker some, but also find the form factor Apple is producing - and as noted previously the engineering behind it - astounding. I own numerous Apple devices, but also loved building a gaming rig with my kids. I personally just hope Apple listens to concerns of long long time supporters who are feeling left behind

 

[wikiverse]

But yeah, keep bitching, computers and bitching about them is a hobby for many on here...

Actually, you'll find that I wasn't bitching. I said specifically I didn't care about RAM or SSD, only that batteries can and should be easily replacable.

Your 2009 MBP battery isn't glued in. You could replace it yourself with 3 screws, which is why it is cheap for a local tech to swap it. And that is exactly the point I was making.

As a consumable that isn't covered by warranty, batteries can and should be easily replaceable (by the user or by a tech).

 

[smoking monkey]

Was this really a surprise to anybody? I doubt it. As another poster said, thinner, faster, lighter means a trade off. Plus manufacturing must be easier with one solid piece. I think we would all like user access to Ram and Battery, but that's the Apple world we live in now...

 

[Tech198]

At least you can still replace the SSD.

 

[Macshroomer]

Your 2009 MBP battery isn't glued in. You could replace it yourself with 3 screws, which is why it is cheap for a local tech to swap it. And that is exactly the point I was making.

I meant the glue in types, the screw in's he can do in a few hours, but I would do that so...

There is another possible reason for the glue-ins along with going to torx screws. I have heard from folks I know in DC that it might have to do with internal mandates from DHS for counter-terrorism.....think about it, it totally makes sense from a deterrence point of view...

 

[bigpoppamac31]

Apple has no reason to make any parts user accessible.

Harder to design/assemble
Less profit to make off huge markups on upgrades

If Apple is smart they will continue to make things harder and harder to upgrade.

It's not really that smart if they really want to be "environmentally friendly". Making it less user upgradeable means people have to purchase new Macs more frequently. Yes the old one can be sold to someone else but in the long run it means more junk in the trash. It just means Apple is looking at it's hoard of cash and getting greedy eyed and wanting more. Sad what the love of money does to many people. Yes I get they're a business but they clearly don't listen to their customers very well.

 

[meistervu]

It's not really that smart if they really want to be "environmentally friendly". Making it less user upgradeable means people have to purchase new Macs more frequently. Yes the old one can be sold to someone else but in the long run it means more junk in the trash. It just means Apple is looking at it's hoard of cash and getting greedy eyed and wanting more. Sad what the love of money does to many people. Yes I get they're a business but they clearly don't listen to their customers very well.

On the other hand, making things removable means more resource needed. If most people don't upgrade their laptop, that resource goes to waste.

Personally, when I buy a laptop, I get it with all the memory and storage I need. By the time I need more, the motherboard, CPU are obsolete so I need a whole new laptop anyway.

 

[bigpoppamac31]

On the other hand, making things removable means more resource needed. If most people don't upgrade their laptop, that resource goes to waste.

Personally, when I buy a laptop, I get it with all the memory and storage I need. By the time I need more, the motherboard, CPU are obsolete so I need a whole new laptop anyway.

Maybe so. But I know I can't afford a new computer every few years. I saved a whole year for my current 15" MBP (early 2011). My previous Mac was a 2006 Macbook (black). That's 5 years in between. I gave my Macbook to my bro when I got my MBP and he's still using it. Sure he cannot get ML or Mavericks but it works. Even so I was able to upgrade my Macbook (black) to 2GB of Ram and a bigger HDD and it was so easy to do. Just slide the HDD out with the pull tab and flick the little switch to pop out the Ram sticks. I loved it. Even with my current MBP I upgraded the Ram to 8GB and bigger HDD and all I had to do was take of the bottom cover and undo a few screws inside. So easy.

Even if the customer doesn't want or know how to upgrade their Mac themselves the ease of user upgradeability makes it easier for the technician to do it. But I personally like doing it myself. When the time comes to upgrade from this MBP I'll have to pay for the "upgrades" right away which is much more costly and something I can't really afford. And no I'm not going to get a Windows machine cause I can't stand windows. I guess my next Mac will have to be an Apple refurb of the final 15" cMBP.

 

[actuallyinaus]

i am more pissed at the soldered in RAM rather than glued in battery.

according to ananndtech the soldering of the ram allows them to achieve the closest to 1600MHz out of any ram they have ever seen

 

[Gudi]

You would need to reduce the number of fans from ten to one to have it be half as loud.

In the mood to explain more?

The fact the fan's not the same size as before though, and that we don't know whether it will be spinning faster or slower than before, makes the whole point moot.

And we don't know the efficiency of the new heat pipe and so on. But in a tendency, bigger fans move more air and can therefore spin slower and quiter. That is the reason why fans did not miniaturize like everything else in a computer. Agreed?

 

[krithikb007]

If it's old after one year, that's because your view of things is bad. Mavericks was released on hardware as old as 2008 models (from what I remember). So no, your stuff ISN'T "old" after a year unless you have unrealistic expectations.

Also, I'd like to see what entry level car you're getting for MBP pricing. It's either a death trap or a used beater.

Well imagine 2008 model had 2 gb ram soldered , now after installing Mavericks you felt system is slow than what next ? we need to go to Apple for upgrading RAM and pay them double the price for RAM ? and definitely battery also will be weak by 2 to 3 years , than again we need to go to Apple ! Imagine you want to replace the hard disk than again you need to go to apple for their High Priced hard disk . So you need this

 

[mcphee7]

Personally, my Macbook Pro is 50 months (4 years) old, and I'm planning to keep it for at least another year... Maybe more if OS X still support it and that I don't want to put 2k in the retina 13" Macbook Pro (max CPU, max RAM) now. I have upgraded the HDD (250 GB instead of 160 GB) and the RAM (4 GB instead of 2 GB) back in the days when I ordered the laptop, and since then, I upgraded the RAM and the HDD again. I would also need to change the battery as the capacity is getting lower and lower, although it's still fine.

Can I use the current retina for 5 years without upgrading it ? Yes, I will just max the RAM and CPU... It will cost slightly more as it's Apple, but I can deal with it. After all, I don't buy Apple products for their prices...

My iPhone was (still is as I'm waiting for the new) a 32 GB 3GS. iOS 7 dropped the iPhone, so I bought a 5S. The iPhone is 4 years old too.

I don't change my laptop/iPhone each 2 years, but I don't really upgrade them too. Plus, I think it's normal that the new laptops are not user-upgradable. Sockets and user-accessibility take space, and seriously most consumer won't play with the internals... Most slim laptops won,t be user-upgradable...

All fair and valid points

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When I spend a ton of money on a laptop I want to be able to use it for many many years. I bought a late 2006 MacBook Pro 17" (2.33GHz core 2 duo) and replaced batteries multiple times, maxed the RAM, and put in a 500GB HDD up from the stock 160GB) that computer is still pretty fast given its age and really does most of what I need from a laptop. But when the retinas came out and I saw apples direction I bought a new mid 2012 cMBP 15" and I will probably keep that for many years and just up the RAM from 8GB to 16GB and swap my 750GB HDD for an SSD in the coming years. My only wish would have been having a retina display on it and blu-Ray.

Yep, understood and that obviously works for you. Like I said, I was curious as to other peoples thoughts. Nothing you said is wrong there.

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I think one of the best things about MR is the divergent opinions expressed here. It's why I keep coming back. Some opinions expressed on this site change my mind while other opinions reinforce the ideas I already had. Your opinions on this subject reinforce mine.

It seems your sole focus is money. Nothing wrong with that if that's your thing. Lot's of people have money but aren't motivated by it. Some, for example, are more motivated by discovery, by curiosity, by whatever else that motivates them. Some people like to tinker, upgrade, and improve. That's why there are aftermarkets for computers, cars, and a whole host of other things. There are a multitude of reasons for people to want the ability to upgrade the things they own. One of the coolest thing about forum members here is I see them mention their kit that is 4-7-10 years old and still running. Running why? A lot of the time it's because they can upgrade it. There's a certain sense of pride in being able to "do". I think, at least for me, that's why people want the ability to upgrade. Whipping out a credit card and "just buying" because it's new... I guess you can be proud of that too.

Before someone says "Go get a PC then", please don't. If that's your rejoinder, my comment was wasted on you.

Like I said, I was just curious. Don't get me wrong though, I like a little user upgrade as much as the next person. For example, the 2011 MBP i'm typing this on came with the 500gb 5400rpm HDD. I swapped it out for a 256 Samsung SSD because I thought the hard disk that the computer came with just didn't get the job done in terms of speed.

I'm not motivated by money per se however I do enjoy having the latest thing. I have to save up (I don't like credit other than the unavoidable things such as Mortgage / new car etc).

Thanks for your thoughts guys. All valid points and I was genuinely interested in what people thought.

 

[Count Blah]

Well imagine 2008 model had 2 gb ram soldered , now after installing Mavericks you felt system is slow than what next ? we need to go to Apple for upgrading RAM and pay them double the price for RAM ? and definitely battery also will be weak by 2 to 3 years , than again we need to go to Apple ! Imagine you want to replace the hard disk than again you need to go to apple for their High Priced hard disk . So you need this

The whole point is that Apple is NOT going to upgrade RAM for people. If apple setup a system to upgrade ram and sad, it would be slightly less user hostile. But right now, it is 100% user hostile.

 

[KALLT]

Wrong.

If people didn't want thinner lighter faster, Apple wouldn't be in business.

By buying their product, you are accepting the false perception.

Of course, and OS X and the Apple ecosystem do not play a role at all.

 

[mikecorp]

when is the next generation coming out??? February ?? I need to save still some cash,

 

[ancelrick]

Yes, if you like paying $1000 a year for owning a computer -- and having to pay 3 years in advance. If your RAM fails in the 4th year, you're lost.

you're being overly dramatic. Apple offers a flat rate repair on their portable computers. If you have no Applecare, for whatever reason, you pay 290 for 11 and 13 inch machines and 330 for 15+. You could argue that it's too much but "you're lost" is a bit strong.

 

[Count Blah]

you're being overly dramatic. Apple offers a flat rate repair on their portable computers. If you have no Applecare, for whatever reason, you pay 290 for 11 and 13 inch machines and 330 for 15+. You could argue that it's too much but "you're lost" is a bit strong.

And when you find out that you don't have enough ram? Time for a new $2k+ computer* instead of $100. No drama needed.





*=15"

 

[Poisednoise]

In the mood to explain more?

Loudness is used as a term to indicate our perception of how loud something is. The human ear works approximately on a logarithmic scale, which is why the decibel scale is logarithmic also. So if you have a violin playing on its own, in order to produce a sound that seems to be twice as loud you need ten violins. Obviously in terms of the actual energy being pumped into the air it's ten time as much, but our perception of the loudness (which ultimately is the only thing that matters) is that it's twice as loud. It's all quite complicated, because we're into psychoacoustics here rather than just plain physics.

http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/musFAQ.html#extraviolin

And yes, of course you're right, that a larger fan can move the same amount of air at a slower speed, and a more slowly rotating fan is likely to be quieter. And of course one fan is quieter than two fans, albeit not that much quieter. Overall I'm sure you're right that the new MacBooks are going to be quieter, although I suspect not by that much.

 

[Gudi]

More Blades

Loudness is used as a term to indicate our perception of how loud something is. The human ear works approximately on a logarithmic scale, which is why the decibel scale is logarithmic also.

So than it is largely a neurobiologically question of which kind of sensory information is emphasized by the human brain. Since our ears are trained to recognize even the quietest sounds because they could indicate a biological threat, we need to convince our brains that fans are peaceful animals ready to be ignored.

During the introduction of the very first 15-inch MacBook Pro with Retina Display Apple especially mentioned the benefits of asymmetrical fan blades. The new 15-inch rMBP seems to have much more fan blades than the old one, changing the acoustic once more. Also the blades seem to have a bigger work angle as well and the gap between the axle bearing and the blades is reduced.

MacBook Pro 15" Retina ( Mid 2012 )

MacBook Pro 15" Retina ( Late 2013 )

We need More Blades!

 

[AtomicGrog]

And when you find out that you don't have enough ram? Time for a new $2k+ computer* instead of $100. No drama needed.*=15"

Imo you're just as likely to find that the CPU and/or Graphics capabilities are going to be stretched as much as the memory and unlike both of those you can resolve the issue upfront by maxing your memory from scratch.

That's what I did recently with my son's Air... I used the discount I received to max the memory from day one.

 

[Count Blah]

Imo you're just as likely to find that the CPU and/or Graphics capabilities are going to be stretched as much as the memory and unlike both of those you can resolve the issue upfront by maxing your memory from scratch.

That's what I did recently with my son's Air... I used the discount I received to max the memory from day one.

I've run into memory issues LONG before any other limitations.

My experiences greatly differ from what you are claiming. All my MBPs have had their memory upgraded post purchase.

My son is now using my MBP 1,1 1.83Ghz CD to play minecraft. Original Memory was upgraded, while the CPU and dGPU are enough to play.

 

[tech4all]

The price you pay for a well built and tuned machine. Won't find a better built laptop on the market that's for sure. Plus the people that usually want to tweak their systems want a Windows/Linux box anyways, so Apple is doing just fine with what they are doing. Granted I wish I could change out the Memory/Disk still.. they charge way to much, that part I hate!

There's always Hackintosh...at least with desktops.

It's not going to implode, but slowly, Apple will begin to treat Macs like iOS devices. Release new OS every year, release new hardware every year, block OS from older machines.

My early 2008 Mac Pro is supported by Mavericks. I see Apple locking down their hardware, like they're doing. You won't (aren't) able to upgrade hard drives, RAM, or batteries in laptops. I don't mind it so much with laptops (laptops were never really up gradable, at least not easily). But desktops is where I draw the line. IMO, it's time to find alternatives...Hackintosh, Linux, or back to Windows.

 

[CitrusPisser]

I must say I'm very happy that I bought a 15 inch cMBP earlier this year when I could. For me, the added form factor has never been a bother, and it certainly felt great to be able to upgrade from the stock 4gb to 16gb RAM for less than $100. It's also nice to know I have the option of replacing the hard drive myself, will I? who knows.. maybe by then I'll be ready to switch to the rMBP.

I can't help but wonder what a rMBP in the classic form factor would be like. With the greater accessibility/user repairability and perhaps a little more room to work with in terms of adding a better graphics card, it may have been a good thing in a slightly different world.

 

[PracticalMac]

A laptop is NOT an iPad.

Why is Apple making it as such?

Every PowerPook / MacBook I have owned I always did updates hardware, and these new Retinas put me off big time.

 

[haruhiko]

I'm amazed at how small the laptops are getting.

I'm also amazed at how big the laptops still are. If Apple could ditch Intel and design their own "system on a chip" for their laptops and other Macs, the size of these devices could shrivel down and become… iPads.

The road to self-sufficient Apple, making efficient and compact computers via their own CPU/GPU design, is probably a priority in the upper halls and offices. Can't wait to see what comes in another 5 years, and I'm loving the design of these thin MacBooks.

The battery still cannot be shrunken down with current available consumer tech.