Terrible response times on the new MacBook pro 2021,can u feel it in daily usage ?

[ingambe]

But this 120Hz seems a bit misleading for me now
If the screen is 120Hz but there is a huge delay between two updates, that kills completely the purpose of having a 120Hz screen no? What's the added value over a 60Hz with a faster refresh rate?

 

[Love-hate 🍏 relationship]

But this 120Hz seems a bit misleading for me now
If the screen is 120Hz but there is a huge delay between two updates, that kills completely the purpose of having a 120Hz screen no? What's the added value over a 60Hz with a faster refresh rate?

Idk enough to answer your question (which makes a lot of sense ) but hopefully someone will.

 

[bill-p]

Gotcha

I AM buying the 14,even tho I don't need it tbh.nah I'm fine with battery tbh,and so are you

Hmm,do u have any idea by how much that would affect battery tho? Absolutely uneducated guess but I don't believe it would use over 4-5% more energy than current MacBooks (I'm talking about the power consumption as a whole,not just the display's)

Well, it'll use more power than slower response time for sure. As for how much more, it depends really on the resolution and many other factors. The higher the resolution, the harder the controller has to work in order to change each individual pixel fast enough. As it is, the current screens are already battery hogs when HDR is played back or when 120Hz mode is engaged. Would you be okay with 5% less battery run time?

But this 120Hz seems a bit misleading for me now
If the screen is 120Hz but there is a huge delay between two updates, that kills completely the purpose of having a 120Hz screen no? What's the added value over a 60Hz with a faster refresh rate?

That's not how it works. 120Hz means the screen is updated 120 times per second and it is going to be updated 120 times per second. What this "response time" thing means is that when an update is initiated, the previous frame has not finished changing yet. This creates an "in-between" effect that results in motion blur, as frames are blended together.

Motion blur is bad for use cases that require clear in-motion images (like gaming, or artists working on high framerate animations), but it shouldn't be a problem for many other industries/disciplines. For instance, most video cameras are still around 24-30fps, and this response time should be fast enough for that content, so there's little to no "motion blur" when playing back 24fps or 30fps videos.

What's the added value? 120Hz is just... smoother than 60Hz, which is smoother than 30Hz. Have you seen the iPad Pro display? This is like that. The iPad Pro is also not a fast display, but it still gets smoother when running at higher refresh rate.

 

[Love-hate 🍏 relationship]

Well, it'll use more power than slower response time for sure. As for how much more, it depends really on the resolution and many other factors. The higher the resolution, the harder the controller has to work in order to change each individual pixel fast enough. As it is, the current screens are already battery hogs when HDR is played back or when 120Hz mode is engaged. Would you be okay with 5% less battery run time?



That's not how it works. 120Hz means the screen is updated 120 times per second and it is going to be updated 120 times per second. What this "response time" thing means is that when an update is initiated, the previous frame has not finished changing yet. This creates an "in-between" effect that results in motion blur, as frames are blended together.

Motion blur is bad for use cases that require clear in-motion images (like gaming, or artists working on high framerate animations), but it shouldn't be a problem for many other industries/disciplines. For instance, most video cameras are still around 24-30fps, and this response time should be fast enough for that content, so there's little to no "motion blur" when playing back 24fps or 30fps videos.

What's the added value? 120Hz is just... smoother than 60Hz, which is smoother than 30Hz. Have you seen the iPad Pro display? This is like that. The iPad Pro is also not a fast display, but it still gets smoother when running at higher refresh rate.

Maybe I would be.depdends on how bad it currently looks irl I suppose

Perfect explanation thanks! makes a lot of sense.even if one frame blends into the previous one ,it should still be smoother and there shouldn't be stutter like in 60hz indeed (related to the lack of frames/s ) .thks

 

[bill-p]

Maybe I would be.depdends on how bad it currently looks irl I suppose

Perfect explanation thanks! makes a lot of sense.even if one frame blends into the previous one ,it should still be smoother and there shouldn't be stutter like in 60hz indeed (related to the lack of frames/s ) .thks

It's actually not that bad. Basically I've always wanted a smoother screen on my Mac ever since I got my iPad Pro. And now I have it. Honestly, this is a better screen than my iPad Pro in every way.

Also, aside from Safari, many other apps do scroll at 120Hz. Once Safari supports 120Hz, that will complete the new MacBook Pros and make them that much better.

 

[Love-hate 🍏 relationship]

It's actually not that bad. Basically I've always wanted a smoother screen on my Mac ever since I got my iPad Pro. And now I have it. Honestly, this is a better screen than my iPad Pro in every way.

Also, aside from Safari, many other apps do scroll at 120Hz. Once Safari supports 120Hz, that will complete the new MacBook Pros and make them that much better.

Safari and all browsers yep

 

[bill-p]

Safari and all browsers yep

As an aside, I just figured out how to enable 120Hz scrolling with Safari...

Enabling 120Hz scrolling in Safari

Well, I found out how to do it. This is silly as hell. 1. Enable Develop menu 2. Go to Develop > Experimental Features > disable GPU Process: Canvas Rendering 3. Restart Safari 4. Set display refresh rate to ProMotion 5. Launch testufo.com, notice how the UFOs are scrolling at 60fps 6. Now set...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[Love-hate 🍏 relationship]

As an aside, I just figured out how to enable 120Hz scrolling with Safari...

Enabling 120Hz scrolling in Safari

Well, I found out how to do it. This is silly as hell. 1. Enable Develop menu 2. Go to Develop > Experimental Features > disable GPU Process: Canvas Rendering 3. Restart Safari 4. Set display refresh rate to ProMotion 5. Launch testufo.com, notice how the UFOs are scrolling at 60fps 6. Now set...

forums.macrumors.com

Hilarious,thank you bill

 

[MrGunnyPT]

It’s not as bad as it was on my 16” 2019 i9.

Quite happy with my 14”

 

[Love-hate 🍏 relationship]

It’s not as bad as it was on my 16” 2019 i9.

Quite happy with my 14”

Question for you,how does the downgrade feel?the smaller display I mean

 

[throAU]

So apparently the new mbp have horrendous response times (tho they have always had ) ,which makes the 120hz kinda silly because of it
Here is a link and a video review from a professional:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1460927479342936064

For non gaming usage ,do u feel it ,when scrolling ,moving windows and elements around ? Trailing,ghosting,blur

Have not noticed.

 

[Love-hate 🍏 relationship]

Have not noticed.

If you've got terrible response times there's some glitchy software installed or you have a faulty machine.

It's not me but professional reviewers.i haven't got my unit yet .it's good if you don't notice it

 

[throAU]

Is this going to be one of those things that nobody notices and then they read an article or watch a video and all of a sudden start suffering?

Nah its one of those things that someone will read the article and then post "SEE! the new MacBook Pros are crap!" despite never having used one. From their 8 year old machine.

 

[Artsketch]

this is a better screen than my iPad Pro in every way

Better than the 12.9" M1 iPad Pro?

 

[bill-p]

Better than the 12.9" M1 iPad Pro?

Well, I'd say the two screens are equal. The iPad is the better scrolling experience because Safari on iPad does work at 120fps, whereas Safari on Mac is stuck at 60fps or lower.

 

[bill-p]

Might be relevant for those who want to see it. I took my camera out, set it to high speed and took a photo of the 120Hz UFO on my 14":

To my naked eyes and to the camera at 1/4000th of a second, 120Hz (on top) is much less blurry (previous frames have pretty much merged into the UFO in the current frame) versus 60Hz and 30Hz. In fact, 30Hz is just a blur to my naked eyes because the previous frame is still mostly there but the current frame has already finished rendering.

This is where we can clearly see that 120Hz actually helps this display tremendously and makes it look clearer than if it was at 60Hz and 30Hz.

 

[Sanpete]

Might be relevant for those who want to see it. I took my camera out, set it to high speed and took a photo of the 120Hz UFO on my 14":

View attachment 1913693

To my naked eyes and to the camera at 1/4000th of a second, 120Hz (on top) is much less blurry (previous frames have pretty much merged into the UFO in the current frame) versus 60Hz and 30Hz. In fact, 30Hz is just a blur to my naked eyes because the previous frame is still mostly there but the current frame has already finished rendering.

This is where we can clearly see that 120Hz actually helps this display tremendously and makes it look clearer than if it was at 60Hz and 30Hz.

Interesting! Looks like the higher refresh rate does affect the response time, quite a bit.

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

Based on my experiences I would take an OLED 60hz over an LCD/miniLED 120hz any day with the displays Apple has been been putting in. My iPhone 13 Mini looks much smoother than my miniLED IPP 12.9" and my iPhone 13 PM looks the best out of all of them since it blends 120hz with OLED response times.

I tried the new MacBook 14/16" side by side with the older MBP 13" and even scrolling through Apples various apps I could barely tell a difference and now I know why from various reviews covering the poor response time. Additionally, the Mini 6 has one of the worst 60hz screens I've ever seen on any device lately which was super odd.

Pretty much solidified that I won't be upgrading any of my current M1 Apple products or buying new ones until Apple goes OLED or similar which will probably never happen due to price. I don't really need a computer/tablet with a fancy screen when I have OLED on my tv and phone which are the two products I use the most. I enjoy nice toys but Apple really keeps shooting themselves in the foot with these questionable displays. Great color accuracy but I have no desire to watch a movie on a 12.9" iPad with a 3:2 aspect ratio that has more black bars than a piano.

 

[bill-p]

I tried the new MacBook 14/16" side by side with the older MBP 13" and even scrolling through Apples various apps I could barely tell a difference

I would be very surprised if you could tell a difference... because many apps are still stuck at 60Hz. It seems Apple has some weird implementation of ProMotion that basically halves the frame rate in many of their own apps, not just Safari.

 

[throAU]

Also promotion isn’t just about 120hz. It’s about running the correct refresh rate for content anywhere between 24-120.

 

[Tagbert]

So apparently the new mbp have horrendous response times (tho they have always had ) ,which makes the 120hz kinda silly because of it
Here is a link and a video review from a professional:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1460927479342936064

For non gaming usage ,do u feel it ,when scrolling ,moving windows and elements around ? Trailing,ghosting,blur

Use of exaggerated terms like "horrendous" reduce your credibility by at least half. I know it comes from the video and the same loss of credibility applies. Even if the display response time is slower than some imagined expectation, it is dishonest to use scare words like "horrendous".

 

[throAU]

Use of exaggerated terms like "horrendous" reduce your credibility by at least half. I know it comes from the video and the same loss of credibility applies. Even if the display response time is slower than some imagined expectation, it is dishonest to use scare words like "horrendous".

Yup.

As a user of the following machines

MacBook Pro 15" 2011
MacBook Pro 13" 2015
MacBook Air Intel 2020

... and various PCs since 1992 prior to my 14" Pro, I do not notice any screen response issues in daily use.

 

[SpotOnT]

But this 120Hz seems a bit misleading for me now
If the screen is 120Hz but there is a huge delay between two updates, that kills completely the purpose of having a 120Hz screen no? What's the added value over a 60Hz with a faster refresh rate?

In practical terms, the refresh rate will impact how choppy/smooth things in motion look. The response time will impact how blurry/sharp things in motion look (as well as the color accuracy of things in motion).

In general Low refresh = choppy. High refresh + low response = smooth and blurry. High refresh + high response = smooth and sharp.

 

[MrGunnyPT]

M

Question for you,how does the downgrade feel?the smaller display I mean

Wasn't a big issue to be honest, I work with terminals and visual studio most of the time so I didn't notice much difference, I mean the difference is these days I work from home 95% of the time so I just hook up to my dual 4k displays.

 

[Love-hate 🍏 relationship]

Use of exaggerated terms like "horrendous" reduce your credibility by at least half. I know it comes from the video and the same loss of credibility applies. Even if the display response time is slower than some imagined expectation, it is dishonest to use scare words like "horrendous".

Gotcha

Unrelated but what's that on your pp?