Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Status
Not open for further replies.
I also found that amusing when my dad bragged about how great Dell's tech support is. All I could think was "and why is that a good thing that you'd have to be excited over the tech support and accept it will be a well used feature". When I had my Gateway, I called support so often I knew the number by heart and even knew the names of various techies by their voices...sad. With Apple, I lost the Applecare card I got a few years ago and never once had to call them in that time, so I can't even say how good they are currently. I personally like that feeling. "Oh, we have tech support? Huh...since when?"
 
First, I am sorry that I made my frustration public here. Sometimes you just do something without a clear point. You have to understand that I was falling in love with a PB but it did not was what I expected.

It seems to me that you are considering me as a troll. A typical “PC’s are better guy”.

1)Somebody wrote that because I do not switch after the release of G4 1.25Ghz PB I was not seriously thinking of it. HMM… Do you buy a product just because the person who sells it says it is better than the others ?!? I did my research. I discussed with the people who are using both of the systems and asked how do they liked the system they used. I searched the web. I also borrowed an iMac from my friend for few days to give it a try. Very nice machine & nice programs but in my case it do not satisfy my needs.

2)Somebody wrote that Mac had half the memory… but did you notice that Dell had half the processors ? Did you also noticed that Mac was left behind by Dell’s single processor work station with half the memory of Mac as well ?

3)Somebody wrote that I do have to reboot my computer every hour. Well, I have been using PC’s for 6 years now and there have not been a need to reboot my machine as you seem to think. Both systems (PC & Mac) can be a nightmare. It is up the user – not the computer.

4)Somebody wrote that After Effects runs slowlier in a Mac than in a PC ! Great! That’s what the link tells you…. And please note that Charlie White do write that the performance of these systems when the application is running is very clear. He do not say that the overall performance of Mac is poor but he does say that the performance of Mac when running AE (& assumed that when editing digital video) is not very good compared to PC.

5)Did anybody asked that do I need to run that very program (AE) ?

6)Somebody wrote that why not a desktop – sometimes you need to carry your computer with you all the time and a desktop is very difficult to lug around all the time.

7)The funny thing is that Adobe, Avid, Barefeats & many more say that G4 is not as good as P4… actually the only company telling that G4 is faster is Apple as far as I know… How many people have wrote in this forum that do not trust to the manufacturers data when PC’s have seemed to be better. What makes the difference with Apple ?

I also want acknowledge you that if I would like to buy a desktop it would be a G5 Dual 2ghz at the moment. Unfortunately a desktop does not meet my needs.

If you really think that I should buy a Mac (PB G4 1,25Ghz) please point it out with reasonable arguments because there is still the possibility to cancel my order.
 
huh, you haven't cancelled your order yet? well that's good news...

the best thing that i can probably say to you is not to get too worried about the specs etc. you've been using a PC for the past 6 years, right? so you're familiar with whatever programs you use on PC, so go to an Apple Store and try out the same programs on a 1.25GHz PowerBook. specs don't mean anything, it's really about how it performs on a day to day basis.

and you're not just buying a 1.25GHz PowerPC processor with 80GB HD, DDR 333 RAM, etc. you're buying a Mac, and OS X (sort of) after using OS X for a bit over a year i can say i would never go back to Windows if i had the choice. OS X is just so much nicer to work with, and i've found that alot of the powerful features are available to the average user, more so than on Windows, and at the same time being simpler.

but a Mac might not be for you, but just go and try on the PowerBook the programs you use on a day to day basis, and see how it goes.
 
To help you doing so...

I am going to run the following software in my computer

Avid Express Pro
After Effects

As an independent filmmaker this will be the only computer used to edit. It has to be laptop because I have to be able to take my work to clients etc.

Please do not make this Avid vs FCP conversation. The reason I chose Avid is that I do a lot of co-operation with national broadcasting channel which have Avids. Having an Avid by myself is easier for the workflow etc.

I CAN ALSO GIVE YOU SOMETHING TO START WITH:

I have heard / read the following

-AVID CODEC works with absolutely no problems in Mac while it might face problems with Windows because Microsoft's own codec is not willing to give any room for Avid.

-If you do video editing you should check out 17" PB which now have G4 1.33Ghz which means 33% speed increase on the paper.

-Because this is the only workstation you have ..... you should take a closer look to this 17" PB because of the screen. More room for the avid windows....... and please note that the 17" PC laptops are not really carryable at the moment (as big they are)

-If you have an Avid Express Pro you can connect AVID MOJO accelerator to your computer which means that while doing documentary style editing there is no more issues like rendering speeds etc.

-Did you know that any G4 processor is capable to do DV editing with Express DV 3.5 software according to Avid. We can easily assume that the issue is the same with the Pro as long as you do not go SD.

-DUAL 1 Ghz Powermac was able to perform 8 layers of video with FCP3 when tested by Computer Video Magazine. This means that the computer should be fast enough for you.

-You can run 2 displays with your PB which means that if you need an extra screen you can plug in a Cinema HD display.

ETC.


HA .... now I am recommending a Mac over the PC according to those lines above this
 
Originally posted by revenuee
we'll see how much "performance" he gets out of that machine when he's restarting it every hour.

even if those benchmark results are true, your running it on a system that's most popular keyboard shortcut is "ctrl + alt + del"

not to mention that the computer comes from a company that has "award winning technical support"

has anyone heard Apple brag about how good its tech support is? No.
Why? because no one ever needs to call it, our computers just work.

- all you people out there who are satisfied with the apple updates, and HAVE decided to switch, welcome to ourside; you can finally start trusting your computer-

It is comments like these that make it difficult for any new user to differentiate between fact and fiction.

For example, I have a Compaq notebook at work, and I don't have to restart it ever hour, nor do I press "CTRL-ALT-DEL" other than to login. I've stated before in another thread that Intel architecture really isn't the problem. It is the software and operating system that is the problem. How many times do you swap a processor or another hardware component when an app crashes? More than likely, it is either the app or the OS causing problems.

Don't get me wrong. I love my Mac's and would love to have a PowerBook instead of my Compaq. However, I have to deal with reality, and reality states that my company has standardized with Intel architecture, specifically Compaq. Does that mean I start bashing Mac's at work? No. When I go home to my Mac, do I start bashing Windows? No. Of course, I don't like having to patch my system constantly, worrying about getting a virus, or not being able to use standby (this seems to work then not then work then not).

The great thing with Apple is that they design both the hardware and the OS. That's tight integration which results in a stable OS installation.

I, for one, would like to see the anti-Windows flames stop. Unless there are definite concrete facts, then the message is invalid and just confuses everyone.
 
I don't know, I'm just confused. How does the Dell have half the processors as the PowerBook? I doubt it has half of a processor. The G4 PowerBook was not going to be dual or G5, I thought that was a given, so to get mad at Apple was pointless. If you recall the title of your thread, you were basically pissed at Apple for not releasing a good enough laptop even though you were the one with the unrealistic specs. I am sure that no one would be "THANKS INTEL- I am done here because you didn't release a dual P4 laptop that I wish I had". It just doesn't make sense. Apple didn't promise you a miracle computer, it just delivered what it had.

As far as your current order, just use it for a week. You can return it within a 10 day period, afterall. It's just that these are completely different systems. You can't easily draw a line between Mac and PC in terms of performance. Just use it and see if you either like it or hate it. Also note that Panther is coming out real soon and that is supposed to be one hell of a big upgrade in terms of performance and features. Obviously, there was something about the Mac that got your attention since you went out of your way to try it and and then order one. If that is the case, then take the next step and try it out before you curse Apple and curse the PowerBook.
 
Stojamow,

The reason people labeled you as a "troll" is because you came into the forums and, not only bashed (no...that word is overused and is too strong..."voiced disapproval of") Apple, but started a thread to do so. In addition, you have a total of 6 posts (4 in this thread alone) and have been a registered Macrumors.com member for only 3 months. It just sort of seems like you're trying to upset people.

What I don't get, though, is that if you go back and look at your other two posts, it seems that you did not have unrealistic expectations about the recent Powerbook updates.

Originally posted by Stojamow on Sept. 4
"It is obvious that I do not get a performance of a desktop but I still want a reasonable performance. What do you think guys ?!?"

I think most people would say that the Powerbook G4 will have excellent performance. Next...

originally posted by Stojamow on Sept. 10
"They probably introduce new Powerbooks in Paris. Is it G4 or G5 I do not know. If you think realistically it is probably G4 speeded up to something like 1.25-1.5Ghz."

Bingo! You should be in the rumor business. So why was the update such a disappointment?

Squire
 
Re: THANKS APPLE - I am done here....

Originally posted by Stojamow
Because of the upgrade they provided to us I am not going to switch. I need my laptop now - not next year

= I just posted my order to Dell (M60 Notebook)

It is very impressive piece of technology

http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2003/09_sep/reviews/cw_dellm60.htm

and please note that the MAC has a G4 1.25ghzDUAL prosessor and it is still left heavily behind

I feel a bit sorry because I like the design but I cannot do compromises with the performance.

:(

Well, using AfterEffects benchmarkng on a Mac is hardly playing fair. It is not optimized anywhere near as well for the Mac platform and suffers greatly. Digital Video Editing magazine is well known for their anti-Mac slant.

I do wish you well with Dell, although I'd honestly recommend Sony or Toshiba for PC laptops. I've purchased over 2 dozen laptops from Dell over the past five years (including their top of the lines) because clients have insisted on using Dell and every single laptop has caused numerous problems. Also, don't expect Dell to stick by their end of the warranty deal. If you laptop breaks, they may take it away for 2-3 weeks at a time. Don;t be surprised if you spend 6-8 hours on hold waiting to talk to a representative from Dell regarding your laptop - it's happened to me about 5 times. There are far better options in the PC world when it comes to both desktops and laptops. Good luck, you're gonna need it.
 
Originally posted by Stojamow

I am going to run the following software in my computer

Avid Express Pro
After Effects

As an independent filmmaker this will be the only computer used to edit. It has to be laptop because I have to be able to take my work to clients etc.

Please do not make this Avid vs FCP conversation.

I think you should get whatever you are comfortable with. I guess I don't understand why you are posting on this forum? If you can get windows to run and are used to avid why would you change? FWIW.. For the Jing you are going to spend you could buy FCP, a powerbook AND a dual Mac! I have FCP4 and am very happy with it, runs on a couple of my machines and is very fast even on an emac. No doubt that a powerbook is not the fastest running ae, but why not check the FCP forums to see what kind of luck people are having going from fcp- avid? FCP is a Pro app, you should be able to export to avid with no problems or a least find a work around which is what most windows users are used to i.e., y2k, constant viruses, the windoz OS etc.
Take care and good luck,
daniel
 
Originally posted by fourthtunz
I think you should get whatever you are comfortable with. I guess I don't understand why you are posting on this forum? If you can get windows to run and are used to avid why would you change? FWIW.. For the Jing you are going to spend you could buy FCP, a powerbook AND a dual Mac! I have FCP4 and am very happy with it, runs on a couple of my machines and is very fast even on an emac. No doubt that a powerbook is not the fastest running ae, but why not check the FCP forums to see what kind of luck people are having going from fcp- avid? FCP is a Pro app, you should be able to export to avid with no problems or a least find a work around which is what most windows users are used to i.e., y2k, constant viruses, the windoz OS etc.
Take care and good luck,
daniel

-fourthtunz

You're effort is admirable, but let's please not try to 'convert' Stojamow. He'll move when he has reason to. It's clear he's steeped in shops that use Avid. Yes, the files convert, and all but the picture is bigger than that. Not to mention the EDL's are a different enough as well. These combined with the fire-under-the-ass nature of press deadlines will preclude a switch for now.

-Stojamow

For your future reference, fourthtunz is correct in the points he made, FCP is very impressive. Very. I'd encourage you to look into it and arm yourself with some good knowledge.
 
I personally like converting people the other way right after a major product release...it makes it easier for me to get my hands on what I want without waiting as long on a list of orders that way. :D
 
Originally posted by patrick0brien
-fourthtunz

You're effort is admirable, but let's please not try to 'convert' Stojamow. He'll move when he has reason to. It's clear he's steeped in shops that use Avid. Yes, the files convert, and all but the picture is bigger than that. Not to mention the EDL's are a different enough as well. These combined with the fire-under-the-ass nature of press deadlines will preclude a switch for now.
-Stojamow

yeah, didn't mean for it to come out that way, but I wasn't sure if he is steeped in avid chops and thought he might still be deciding and should talk to avid users and Fcp users. The OMF function in FCP should allow him to export and import back and forth from fcp-avid but...
The question is, does this work well right now? Fcp4 is a new release so, we'll see,peace
daniel
 
TO POWERBOOK G5:

I was talking about the test made by Charlie White. He compared Dell Precision M60 laptop to Powermac G4 DUAL 1,25Ghz... There is a link at the beginning of this thread.

TO SQUIRE:

I was still desperately waiting for G5 PB in my mind.

GENERALLY SPEAKING:

I think PatrickOBrien mentioned one of the reasons why I started to look towards Apple at the beginning of the story = FCP. So, the decision to go for AVID was very conscious one. I am aware of the differencies of these programs but I went for AVID because of my reasons.

The second thing which made me interested about a Mac is that while in school we had a workshop with a graphic designer who had a Mac. That's actually my first experience with them. That G3 Tower looked SOOOO great compared to bulky PC boxes during the time. The interface looked a quite cool as well... HEH

The REAL problem which really keeps me on the PC's is probably that I have certain amount of software which do not run in a mac without virtual PC. :(

Somebody talked something about the money. When it comes to price...heh.. the funny thing is that AVID is cheaper than FCP at the moment !
 
It's up to you whether or not you use a Mac or a PC. My only concern is that you don't knock Apple for getting your hopes up since they themselves stated they aren't putting a G5 in a laptop for some time. I remember seeing you saying yourself that you expected a G4 at 1.25-1.5 GHz at Paris and that was what they basically were, so I don't see why you are so shocked and upset at Apple if even you thought that was what they were giving us.
 
Originally posted by Stojamow
TO POWERBOOK G5:



Somebody talked something about the money. When it comes to price...heh.. the funny thing is that AVID is cheaper than FCP at the moment !

I don't know last I looked avid was a bit more but the last upgrade to FCP and the Included apps, esp soundtrack take it over the top for me . But if your worried about money maybe you should get windoz and avid,peace
daniel
 
while i haven't used the latest avid express....

livetype is something that should not be overlooked as far as its value. granted, if you're a graphic artist/compositer, you'll want to do your own stuff mostly. but livetype is pretty impressive for prefab, but configurable, title effects...

soundtrack will get better (i haven't really used it)... and overall, i think fcp is a strong competitor to avid, and in my opinion more intuitive. the main thing i see separating them is on the higher end with film and edls and such. along with maybe some media management stuff..
 
You're editing video on a PC!?! :eek:

And on a Laptop? I get the portability thing, but from my experiances Dell seems to either give you speed OR portability. What's the battery life like, how big is it, how hot is it? My Stepmom’s Dell is pretty heavy, has about an hour of battery life, and when it’s not plugged in cuts the speed of the CPU in almost half! She’s always complaining about it, and I always say “shoulda bought a Mac”.

As far as editing on a PC, yeah it may be faster sometimes, but it’s so… painful. Everything's such a hassle. Plus, they can benchmark all they want, my Muti-GHz XP PC at work is painfully slow. And don’t get me started on my Mom’s Sony. :rolleyes:

You may want to try the new PowerBook before you slam it so much (and yes, open yourself up to so much critizism).
 
If you are really going to use Avid Express Pro (plus Mojo), it's best to buy an Avid configured laptop. These need to be dedicated machines and with Avid approved hardware throughout (then they run flawlessly and are quite impressive.) They offer both PC and Mac versions of the turnkey systems, however the only numbers that matter should be the ones Avid presents since it is their software that you're planning to run. (As for AE, you can install it on an Avid turnkey, just up the RAM 'cause AE loves RAM)

As for pricing, Avid Express Pro is in the $1.5K range (Express DV is in the $1K range.) Mojo (NLE accelerator) adds another $1.6K as an external piece of hardware. This is all without the laptop cost. When you're looking at these systems, price for the laptop itself shouldn't be an issue (if it is, you're looking to work with the wrong package :eek: )

You should go to an Avid authorized dealer and check out the systems in-person; and I apologize in advance for being rude, but with the level of your questions, getting a turnkey solution seems better suited for you than setting it up yourself since it's important to optimize the system (unloading everything unnecessary and setting internal and harddrive settings) to insure stability. I believe Avid builds laptop systems with 17"PBs or a laptop system using the M60 or D800 Latitude (though in the past they have used IBM ThinkPads and Sonys)

As for FCP, I prefer Avid systems so I'm not going to sway you there (however, both FCP4 and the new Premeire Pro (finally adopting some features from Vegas, Edition, and Avid MC) are getting really good reviews; sadly, they both are (now) not cross-platform so you have to choose a path and follow it...)
 
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
When I had my Gateway, I called support so often I knew the number by heart

I've called Apple once and know their number off by heart. Maybe I'm just good at remembering numbers. 0080076667666.
 
Re: THANKS APPLE - I am done here....

Originally posted by Stojamow
Because of the upgrade they provided to us I am not going to switch. I need my laptop now - not next year

= I just posted my order to Dell (M60 Notebook)

It is very impressive piece of technology

http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2003/09_sep/reviews/cw_dellm60.htm

and please note that the MAC has a G4 1.25ghzDUAL prosessor and it is still left heavily behind

I feel a bit sorry because I like the design but I cannot do compromises with the performance.

:(
TRANSLATED:
Because of the upgrade they provided to us I am not going to switch. I need my (Apple) laptop now - (but I can)not (afford one until) next year

= I just posted my order to Dell (M60 Notebook), (but I have no idea why)

It (the Powerbook) is very impressive piece of technology.

http://www.dellsucks.net

and please note that (the BIG) MAC has DUAL (hamburgers) and it is still left heavily behind (anything from In 'n' Out).

I feel a bit sorry because I like the design (of the new Powerbooks) but I cannot do compromises with the performance (of my bank account).
 
rt_brained

Clever you are :eek: !!!

Unfortunaly people like you make me happy with my decision and btw: I am not living in $$$$$$$ where everything sucks!

Generally Speaking

Barefeats have just done some testing and the new PB's are not that bad after all... I just wonder what is the difference in speed when compared centrino's 1.3 & 1.7 Ghz processors ?!?

http://www.barefeats.com/al15.html
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.