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The 2009 (Gainestown) Mac Pro: Everything We Know

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Tesselator said:
I've had my mac pro completely apart and there's not even one single cable. zero, zip, nada. Maybe if I open the PSU housing there might be a wire or two. I haven't done that yet. 😉 The HDD's have no power cables at all. They plug into surface mounted sockets directly on the motherboard - interface and power.

So are you talking about a hackintosh of some kind or??
Click to expand...
No, not a hackintosh at all.

Pull on of the drives, then look inside at the connector. It's held down by 2x phillips screws. You can try to feel behind it, or remove it for a better look. It has two groups of wires. Looking directly into the connector (end that inserts into drive), the group on the right (4 wires) is power. The other, and should be flat, are the data lines. DATA lines DO NOT SUPPLY POWER. (Not even in a MP). All 4 groups of power wires are terminated together in a single connector. It's located at the top edge of the logic board. Remember, the wiring is short, and won't be far from the drives. (Slightly to the left, but not easily visible IIRC).

Those short wires prevent the data cable connector from reaching slots 1 & 2, and in some cases (short card), even 3 & 4. Some people have had to remove the drive connector (called a MniSAS backplane connector, or SFF-8482), from bay 1 to obtain additional length. The connector is then jury rigged to the drive in bay1. Not a great solution.

Hence the need to mod the wiring, as there's no extension cable available that I know of. 🙁

Hope this helps. 🙂
 
VirtualRain said:
I guess I'm one of the few that sees and understands Apple's product strategy.

The entry level quad core is more affordable and more powerful than the outgoing model. That's great. It has much better memory bandwidth, better memory latency, support for much cheaper memory, hyperthreading, turbo boost, and all the other benefits that come with Nehalem.
Click to expand...

I not sure what this means but I would like to understand it.
 
JoeDMD said:
Thanks - you got the base model of the mini with the 2.26 bto?
Click to expand...

Just got the 2.0ghz $599 stock model. Upgrading to the 2.26ghz version of the mac mini for $150 (1/4 of the price of the mini itself) for less than 2% real world usage performance increase is a total rip off.
 
mchalebk said:
I keep reading things about triple channel and Apple is offering either 3GB or 6GB of RAM standard. This all makes me think that having either three or six memory modules makes the most sense. However, I see someone like Tallest Skil (who has researched the carp out of these things) talking about ordering 8GB of RAM and I wonder why he's not going with either 6GB or 12GB.
Click to expand...

I think that I have changed my mind on that. I'll explain more at the bottom of this post.

kbmb said:
I'm in the same boat as you.....trying to understand the new RAM configs.

Hey Tallest Skil.....any input?
Click to expand...

Again, see below.

Okay, about the RAM...

I have decided to keep the stock RAM for now in exchange for a Radeon 4870 plus a GT 120.

I can ALWAYS get more RAM, and it will be even cheaper in the future. The GT 120 isn't going to go down in price, and if I buy it at the same time, I'll be able to get a slight discount on it.

Also, where are the support documents for the 2009 models? When will Apple post those?

Oh, also...

How does Windows deal with mixed manufacturer cards these days? I guess this question is for people with the 2600+8800 combo or 7300+3870 combo in their Mac Pros.

Are there any problems anymore with having an ATI and an nVidia card at the same time?
 
Tallest Skil said:
Oh, also...

How does Windows deal with mixed manufacturer cards these days? I guess this question is for people with the 2600+8800 combo or 7300+3870 combo in their Mac Pros.

Are there any problems anymore with having an ATI and an nVidia card at the same time?
Click to expand...

Only Windows XP and Windows 7 can handle mixed graphics cards. Vista can't.
 
Tallest Skil said:
I have decided to keep the stock RAM for now in exchange for a Radeon 4870 plus a GT 120.

I can ALWAYS get more RAM, and it will be even cheaper in the future. The GT 120 isn't going to go down in price, and if I buy it at the same time, I'll be able to get a slight discount on it.
Click to expand...
So, do you have any comments on the optimum configuration for RAM? Does it make sense to configure using three or six modules?
 
Salavat23 said:
Only Windows XP and Windows 7 can handle mixed graphics cards. Vista can't.
Click to expand...

😱 Really.

Wh...

*mind-boggling confusion*

Why? Well, one, why can XP do it and Vista not?

And two, can the Windows 7 beta (I have it) be upgraded to retail Windows 7?

mchalebk said:
So, do you have any comments on the optimum configuration for RAM? Does it make sense to configure using three or six modules?
Click to expand...

I assume that the best thing to do is still to install in sets of three for the best...

What, bandwidth? Performance?

Even though it is possible to add them in pairs, I'd guess that three at a time is still the best way to go.
 
Tallest Skil said:
😱 Really.

Wh...

*mind-boggling confusion*

Why? Well, one, why can XP do it and Vista not?

And two, can the Windows 7 beta (I have it) be upgraded to retail Windows 7?
Click to expand...
Vista changed the driver model so some of the things XP can do Vista couldn't. 7 "fixes" some of those changes. Assuming the beta doesn't expire before the RTM is released you can upgrade. But it isn't recommended.
 
Tallest Skil said:
And two, can the Windows 7 beta (I have it) be upgraded to retail Windows 7?
Click to expand...

Nobody knows, but rumors say that we get to go out and buy it like everyone else. Rumors also say that Vista users will get a free upgrade. I guess I would trade up my 64 Ultimate. ;D
 
nanofrog said:
No, not a hackintosh at all.

Pull on of the drives, then look inside at the connector. It's held down by 2x phillips screws. You can try to feel behind it, or remove it for a better look. It has two groups of wires. Looking directly into the connector (end that inserts into drive), the group on the right (4 wires) is power. The other, and should be flat, are the data lines. DATA lines DO NOT SUPPLY POWER. (Not even in a MP). All 4 groups of power wires are terminated together in a single connector. It's located at the top edge of the logic board. Remember, the wiring is short, and won't be far from the drives. (Slightly to the left, but not easily visible IIRC).

Those short wires prevent the data cable connector from reaching slots 1 & 2, and in some cases (short card), even 3 & 4. Some people have had to remove the drive connector (called a MniSAS backplane connector, or SFF-8482), from bay 1 to obtain additional length. The connector is then jury rigged to the drive in bay1. Not a great solution.

Hence the need to mod the wiring, as there's no extension cable available that I know of. 🙁

Hope this helps. 🙂
Click to expand...

Yeah, OK. I'm remembering. That sounds right. So you're saying if you have a PCI-E card that need power assist then.. what? There's cables in the ready (tucked away) that are too short? Or that some purchased cables are too short? Or? And "Jury rigged"? You mean a Y cable? I'm lost.
 
Tesselator said:
Yeah, OK. I'm remembering. That sounds right. So you're saying if you have a PCI-E card that need power assist then.. what? There's cables in the ready (tucked away) that are too short? Or that some purchased cables are too short? Or? And "Jury rigged"? You mean a Y cable? I'm lost.
Click to expand...
I'm talking about RAID issues. (Just to be clear, as I'm slightly 😕😕 by your post). 😉

The power cable I speak of, isn't a reserve cable at all. It powers the HDD's. If you pull it to attempt to use it for another purpose, you loose the HDD's due to no power. 😉

There aren't any available cables to adapt it, lengthen it, etc. To extend it in order to reach some RAID cards, the power wires had to be hacked so extra wire could be soldered in. A major PITA, if you have the tools, supplies, and skills to do it. (Mostly disassembly/reassembly). Then go through the necessary steps to get the RAID card up and running.

Jury rigged in the sense, that the backplane connector was removed from it's mount, and allowed to hang freely. In one case, the HDD was taped (grey tape) to the sled as well. Such an installation somehow doesn't inspire much trust. 😉 😛 Not to mention the loss of "hot swap" capability for that particular drive. 😱 🙁

Does this help clear things up?
 
Apple Web site...

"Tool-less PCI.
When it’s time to upgrade, a quick slide of the retention bar frees up the four expansion card slots for easy access. Thanks to a thumbscrew PCI bracket, you can swap out cards without any tools. All four slots are now PCI Express 2.0 for up to twice the performance of the previous generation. And since the graphics slot in the Mac Pro is double-wide, your graphics card won’t cover an adjacent slot."

... unless your card is the better of the TWO that are offered.
 
Fomaphone said:
Apple Web site...

"Tool-less PCI.
When it’s time to upgrade, a quick slide of the retention bar frees up the four expansion card slots for easy access. Thanks to a thumbscrew PCI bracket, you can swap out cards without any tools. All four slots are now PCI Express 2.0 for up to twice the performance of the previous generation. And since the graphics slot in the Mac Pro is double-wide, your graphics card won’t cover an adjacent slot."

... unless your card is the better of the TWO that are offered.
Click to expand...

No... 😕

There is a GAP between the first slot and second slot. The first one is double-wide.

Meaning that the double-wide 4870 does NOT cover up slot two.
 
nanofrog said:
I'm talking about RAID issues. (Just to be clear, as I'm slightly 😕😕 by your post). 😉

The power cable I speak of, isn't a reserve cable at all. It powers the HDD's. If you pull it to attempt to use it for another purpose, you loose the HDD's due to no power. 😉

There aren't any available cables to adapt it, lengthen it, etc. To extend it in order to reach some RAID cards, the power wires had to be hacked so extra wire could be soldered in. A major PITA, if you have the tools, supplies, and skills to do it. (Mostly disassembly/reassembly). Then go through the necessary steps to get the RAID card up and running.

Jury rigged in the sense, that the backplane connector was removed from it's mount, and allowed to hang freely. In one case, the HDD was taped (grey tape) to the sled as well. Such an installation somehow doesn't inspire much trust. 😉 😛 Not to mention the loss of "hot swap" capability for that particular drive. 😱 🙁

Does this help clear things up?
Click to expand...


Yup. I see now. I'm too pleased with my software RAID-0 so I never thought about adding a RAID card. So what you were talking about was going past me. 😛

BTW my 3-drive RAID-0 gets >300 MB/s sustained average across the 1st 80% of the platters and costs me an unnoticeable amount (zero?) of CPU cycles.

I guess a dedicated RAID card isn't going to do much better unless I wanted Level 5 or something.
 
Tesselator said:
Yup. I see now. I'm too pleased with my software RAID-0 so I never thought about adding a RAID card. So what you were talking about was going past me. 😛

BTW my 3-drive RAID-0 gets >300 MB/s sustained average across the 1st 80% of the platters and costs me an unnoticeable amount (zero?) of CPU cycles.

I guess a dedicated RAID card isn't going to do much better unless I wanted Level 5 or something.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind, at RAID 0, you're running at 3x the risk of a single drive failure. No redundancy with it, so if one goes, all data is gone. 😱 🙁

You might do better to add a fourth drive, and go RAID 1+0 (aka 10). Offers both speed, and redundancy. HDD's are cheap, so no real reason not to. Even if you have to mount a drive in the empty optical bay. Quite inexpensive for a single drive. Multiples are another story, unless you like to DIY drive mounts. 😛
 
Just Curious

These are just some things I'm curious of. I just want to put things in perspective for myself that shows just how powerful this machine is. What kinds of things or programs would really give the Mac Pro a workout? I mean I don't think I'll be running hours of machine code or compiling massive amounts of videos and then exporting them in different formats (well maybe just here and there). What are some of things you guys or gals do or plan to do with your Mac Pro?
 
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